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| Topic: Should men be "manly"? | |
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some like manly men, some don't!
for those that do...choose a manly man instead of settling for one that isn't and trying to change him... who cares what other people do or don't do...Do what makes YOU happy :) and if you love someone...let them do what makes them happy :) |
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some like manly men, some don't! for those that do...choose a manly man instead of settling for one that isn't and trying to change him... who cares what other people do or don't do...Do what makes YOU happy :) and if you love someone...let them do what makes them happy :) 
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I was watching a tv show recently and this married couple were arguing over the fact that the wife thought her husband should be able to build a diy porch. Her arguement was that he's a man, he should be able to do it. Now as ridiculous as this sounded, I could see her point. I do expect a man to be manly. I grew up around cousins who built their mother's house by hand, can fix everything, work hard on a farm plus they can all cook, iron etc. Actually one of them taught me how to bake bread, but all that cooking stuff was just me bragging. What I want to know is do we still expect men to be "manly"? Should he only cry if his favourite soccer team loses? Must he atleast own a couple of tools and know what they are for? Should he only go to the mechanic when his engine is beyond repair? No, I don't think a man has to prove he is manly to be a man. He should just be himself. If he can fix something then fine; if not then I wouldn't think any less of him. I know that men think I am less of a lady because I have power tools and do my own renos. I do cook, sew, and clean house; as well as wear dresses but doing what is considered a man's job makes me less a woman. Whatever. Marry me, well lets live together for a while, at least til I get the roof fixed...You wear dresses??? I'll hold the ladder...Opps, I'm a pig...Signed "DOC" USN Ret. When do you want me to fix your roof? 
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If power tools and knowing how to use them equate manly, do sewing machines, gourmet cooking, and darning socks equate womanly? If so, I am in deep chit.....  Now I am confused. I not only own a large amount of power tools but know how to use them; so I must be manly. I do sew,cook, and even clean so that makes me womanly. However; I throw my darn socks out. 
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some men just shouldn't be around power tools....just sayin' 
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Its the opposite of stereotyping. Im saying that a man or woman can be comfortable using either energy. I dont think your focusing on what Ive actually posted. I very much like that you question it tho. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Glad you didn't mind the questions, though! 
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I never have a problem with questions really. Even if I were to argue with you....I'd probably enjoy it to an extent. I think people worry about the terms being 'masculine' and 'feminine' because they identify with gender. Simon Baron-Cohen, brain scientist, complains about the terms 'male brain' v 'female brain' for the same reasons. He uses them, tho, because those are the existing terms. (yep, he's related to the guy from 'Borat'   ) The thing is you understand that I am not attacking you. I am discussing a subject with you that we don't agree on, but I'm not going after you as a person. That's the difference and that's why we can discuss things without getting angry at each other. I do wish some others would see things that way. |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 01/11/12 07:36 AM
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Its not the 'man' who makes contact/asks for date, but the one with 'masculine energy'. So being confident, assertive, and knowing what you want is masculine? Yes. Surely you realise that women have these traits, so it is not because they are a man, but their comfort with using masculine energy. It doesnt mean a woman is mannish, or butch, just that she is comfortable with masculine energy. Just like nurturing is feminine energy. You realise that there are men who are quite comfortable with using feminine energy, and nurture their children for example. And some women, alternatively, are not. Really? So it isn't feminine to know what you want or be confident about yourself? I have to believe that not everyone thinks that way. I have a hard time believing that it is not masculine to nurture your children. Maybe I'm just lucky but I know a lot of really good dads out there.... I was just pointing out that what someone described as masculine qualities is actually how some parts of the world define masculinity. Sure and it IS interesting, but it is also interesting that some groups of people still use the Earth Air Fire Water elemental composition to describe all of nature. Go figure.
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Its not the 'man' who makes contact/asks for date, but the one with 'masculine energy'. So being confident, assertive, and knowing what you want is masculine? Yes. Surely you realise that women have these traits, so it is not because they are a man, but their comfort with using masculine energy. It doesnt mean a woman is mannish, or butch, just that she is comfortable with masculine energy. Just like nurturing is feminine energy. You realise that there are men who are quite comfortable with using feminine energy, and nurture their children for example. And some women, alternatively, are not. Really? So it isn't feminine to know what you want or be confident about yourself? I have to believe that not everyone thinks that way. I have a hard time believing that it is not masculine to nurture your children. Maybe I'm just lucky but I know a lot of really good dads out there.... I was just pointing out that what someone described as masculine qualities is actually how some parts of the world define masculinity. Sure and it IS interesting, but it is also interesting that some groups of people still use the Earth Air Fire Water elemental composition to describe all of nature. Go figure. OMG I almost dropped my socks when I read this
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 01/11/12 07:54 AM
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There is no doubt that popular culture has memes and one of these memes is big strong masculine men, and gender roles associated with the traditions of our societies.
I think however what is really more important to think about is if there is really any fundamental, native, or genetic disposition toward certain roles? I think not, I think human beings are so based in learned behaviors that almost every single role we fulfill has far more to do with how we are raised, and what expectations are placed upon us by our parents/cultures than any physiological aspects. |
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There is no doubt that popular culture has memes and one of these memes is big strong masculine men, and gender roles associated with the traditions of our societies. I think however what is really more important to think about is if there is really any fundamental, native, or genetic disposition toward certain roles? I think not, I think human beings are so based in learned behaviors that almost every single role we fulfill has far more to do with how we are raised, and what expectations are placed upon us by our parents/cultures than any physiological aspects. Tradition and the way they were brought up is very important to a lot of people. So, I think that's why we still see certain gender roles still very specific such as what has been discussed in this thread. |
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I never have a problem with questions really. Even if I were to argue with you....I'd probably enjoy it to an extent. I think people worry about the terms being 'masculine' and 'feminine' because they identify with gender. Simon Baron-Cohen, brain scientist, complains about the terms 'male brain' v 'female brain' for the same reasons. He uses them, tho, because those are the existing terms. (yep, he's related to the guy from 'Borat' ) The thing is you understand that I am not attacking you. I am discussing a subject with you that we don't agree on, but I'm not going after you as a person. That's the difference and that's why we can discuss things without getting angry at each other. I do wish some others would see things that way. This is where you went wrong... This? From the king of over-analyzing? rofl Thanks for the laugh! You mocked me when I bore no ill will. I was merely discussing something, pointing out that there was some validity in KLC's idea in some regions. I really didn't mind the questioning until after about the third go-around when the questions appeared to be slanted toward making it appear that I was espousing my own beliefs which I never was. So rather than be upset about it I tried to point out how the discussion was going wrong, and why you sometimes irk people. You decided to reject what I wrote, belittled me, and shifted the blame upon me. I wanted to point out for the record that you DID attack me when you typed those words. That's what I took exception to personally. Nothing else. I'm going to leave it at that. |
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I never have a problem with questions really. Even if I were to argue with you....I'd probably enjoy it to an extent. I think people worry about the terms being 'masculine' and 'feminine' because they identify with gender. Simon Baron-Cohen, brain scientist, complains about the terms 'male brain' v 'female brain' for the same reasons. He uses them, tho, because those are the existing terms. (yep, he's related to the guy from 'Borat' ) The thing is you understand that I am not attacking you. I am discussing a subject with you that we don't agree on, but I'm not going after you as a person. That's the difference and that's why we can discuss things without getting angry at each other. I do wish some others would see things that way. This is where you went wrong... This? From the king of over-analyzing? rofl Thanks for the laugh! You mocked me when I bore no ill will. I was merely discussing something, pointing out that there was some validity in KLC's idea in some regions. I really didn't mind the questioning until after about the third go-around when the questions appeared to be slanted toward making it appear that I was espousing my own beliefs which I never was. So rather than be upset about it I tried to point out how the discussion was going wrong, and why you sometimes irk people. You decided to reject what I wrote, belittled me, and shifted the blame upon me. I wanted to point out for the record that you DID attack me when you typed those words. That's what I took exception to personally. Nothing else. I'm going to leave it at that. It was a response to your comment about me over-analyzing. That's it. It wasn't meant as an attack. You do over-analyze things, then when someone disagrees, you often think it's an attack on you. At least that's what it seems like to me. We don't agree on a lot, but you have to keep in mind that just because I may not agree with what you've said or if I ask questions about what you've said, it is not an attack. |
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Edited by
singmesweet
on
Wed 01/11/12 09:36 AM
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I just thought it was funny coming from someone who analyzes things here very often. It wasn't meant to be offensive. I just have to keep in mind that some people are sensitive to such things, I guess. Others, you can laugh at/with and they do not take offense.
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Seeing as I don't take things so seriously here, I really don't worry about it a whole lot. Some are always going to find something to be offended about, no matter what/how things are said.
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So you think the person who said those traits were masculine were referring to those cultures? I never said that. Although I did point out to her that her explanation did fit the concept of Yin and Yang, though she may not have realized it at the time. The important thing to remember about Yin and Yang is that it is about balancing opposing aspects, and that can be accomplished a myriad of ways, both internally and externally. All people are considered to have both Yin and Yang energy. Men are generally considered to have more Yang than Yin, though the ratio may be different from man to man. The same is true of women, who are considered to have more Yin than Yang. But the ratio is not static. It can change throughout a person's life, much like Testosterone and Estrogen can fluctuate throughout our lives. Ok, but I was asking what was discussed in this thread that specifically had to do with other cultures. Your response didn't make a lot of sense, as I didn't see anyone referring the cultures you referenced. Honestly, Singmesweet, I'm not trying to offend you, but sometimes you over-analyze things way too much. I was just pointing out that what someone described as masculine qualities is actually how some parts of the world define masculinity. So yes, there are people who do believe that confidence, assertiveness, and getting what one wants are masculine traits, not feminine ones. Therefore, women who possess those traits will be regarded as a bit too manly in some countries. In some parts of the world, women who demonstrate a strong will may be punished severely by the men in their families. It happens in India, throughout many regions of South America, in parts of Africa, and many other places. In many Asian cultures, women are expected to be demure and to serve their men. It has long been more acceptable for men to be unfaithful than it is for women, for it was regarded as a fundamental difference in nature between the two genders. Look at Sharia Law in some Muslim regions, and how they will punish by stoning to death a 14 yr old girl for allowing herself to be raped. Some parts of the world still have some backward thoughts concerning gender roles. It has only been in recent decades that women in such countries have begun to rebel and reject these traditional ideas. Talk to women from the Philippines. You'll find there is a split in opinion concerning traditional values, yet the majority of young women still cling to the tradition of abstinence prior to marriage. However, whereas their mothers and grandmothers refused to leave an abusive or cheating husband, many younger women will no longer put up with such behavior from a man. So, you are reading too much into what I wrote. And sadly, when you do something like this you paint a false picture of another person for anyone who enters the thread to see. That is part of the reason why some people become upset with the questions you pose. You sometimes make a false assumption, and don't even seem to realize you've done so until someone points it out to you. AL, I commend your patience and tact. I agree with your yin and yang energy. I just didn't feel the need to post anything towards it. If you look at energy being dispersed throughout the atmosphere, than anyone's can have an effect on another person who is willing to "ingest" it <for a better word>. And if there is a possibility of other lives, than we may have been a woman or a man in another life, which may lead us to have either masculine or feminine tendencies. |
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So you think the person who said those traits were masculine were referring to those cultures? I never said that. Although I did point out to her that her explanation did fit the concept of Yin and Yang, though she may not have realized it at the time. The important thing to remember about Yin and Yang is that it is about balancing opposing aspects, and that can be accomplished a myriad of ways, both internally and externally. All people are considered to have both Yin and Yang energy. Men are generally considered to have more Yang than Yin, though the ratio may be different from man to man. The same is true of women, who are considered to have more Yin than Yang. But the ratio is not static. It can change throughout a person's life, much like Testosterone and Estrogen can fluctuate throughout our lives. Ok, but I was asking what was discussed in this thread that specifically had to do with other cultures. Your response didn't make a lot of sense, as I didn't see anyone referring the cultures you referenced. Honestly, Singmesweet, I'm not trying to offend you, but sometimes you over-analyze things way too much. I was just pointing out that what someone described as masculine qualities is actually how some parts of the world define masculinity. So yes, there are people who do believe that confidence, assertiveness, and getting what one wants are masculine traits, not feminine ones. Therefore, women who possess those traits will be regarded as a bit too manly in some countries. In some parts of the world, women who demonstrate a strong will may be punished severely by the men in their families. It happens in India, throughout many regions of South America, in parts of Africa, and many other places. In many Asian cultures, women are expected to be demure and to serve their men. It has long been more acceptable for men to be unfaithful than it is for women, for it was regarded as a fundamental difference in nature between the two genders. Look at Sharia Law in some Muslim regions, and how they will punish by stoning to death a 14 yr old girl for allowing herself to be raped. Some parts of the world still have some backward thoughts concerning gender roles. It has only been in recent decades that women in such countries have begun to rebel and reject these traditional ideas. Talk to women from the Philippines. You'll find there is a split in opinion concerning traditional values, yet the majority of young women still cling to the tradition of abstinence prior to marriage. However, whereas their mothers and grandmothers refused to leave an abusive or cheating husband, many younger women will no longer put up with such behavior from a man. So, you are reading too much into what I wrote. And sadly, when you do something like this you paint a false picture of another person for anyone who enters the thread to see. That is part of the reason why some people become upset with the questions you pose. You sometimes make a false assumption, and don't even seem to realize you've done so until someone points it out to you. AL, I commend your patience and tact. I agree with your yin and yang energy. I just didn't feel the need to post anything towards it. If you look at energy being dispersed throughout the atmosphere, than anyone's can have an effect on another person who is willing to "ingest" it <for a better word>. And if there is a possibility of other lives, than we may have been a woman or a man in another life, which may lead us to have either masculine or feminine tendencies. Interesting that even in 2012, we still refer to feminine and masculine tendencies. What constitutes what is considered masculine or feminine anyways? I would think in this day and age we have gotten past putting labels on what is considered masculine and feminine. |
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Interesting that even in 2012, we still refer to feminine and masculine tendencies. What constitutes what is considered masculine or feminine anyways? I would think in this day and age we have gotten past putting labels on what is considered masculine and feminine. I think it really depends on the person. Some do not worry about what used to be considered masculine or feminine. Some are still keeping them separate. |
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Some women are more butch than guy are so, I just take it on an individual basis.
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There is no doubt that popular culture has memes and one of these memes is big strong masculine men, and gender roles associated with the traditions of our societies. I think however what is really more important to think about is if there is really any fundamental, native, or genetic disposition toward certain roles? I think not, I think human beings are so based in learned behaviors that almost every single role we fulfill has far more to do with how we are raised, and what expectations are placed upon us by our parents/cultures than any physiological aspects. yes that is why I think men can also nurture children. I mean that's pretty 80s - not really a new social phenom.... 
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