Of course men want to feel needed, everyone in a relationship wants to know their partner needs them.
I don't believe for a minute men want women who are not intelligent.

Women who want what men want, won't give a man what he needs. She's interested in her needs first.

Unlike most of you, I don't automatically identify an independent woman with an alpha female. Just because a woman is independent, that doesn't mean she's an alpha female. In animals, alpha females submit themselves to their alpha male, independent women often find it impossible to submit to anyone. I've met plenty of "independent" women who were nothing like an alpha female, they were just bitchy, impossible to please and flaky.

Independant women are good to be with. While they like affection they don't hang on the guy and need him to constantly reassure her that she has worth.

Some women call themselves independant but are really conceeded and self centered.

I get the impression in reading this thread, that many of the people who are posting here are under the misapprehension that they are "Alphas". I have to disillusion you all, you aren't. I'm not either. Alphas don't waste their time online trying to impress or converse with others online, they have a large group of friends with whom to spend their time. Alpha females don't really sleep around, only an Alpha male is attractive to an Alpha female. The list of needs I posted on the first page, they are the same for the alpha female as they are for the beta female, but the alpha female won't settle for anything less than an Alpha male.

Quite honestly, there aren't that many true Alphas in the world. Most people confuse Betas with bad behavior for Alphas. A true Alpha male respects himself too much to sleep with inferior women, the same is true of an Alpha female.

Dating advice websites and popular culture have twisted the meaning of "Alpha" to excuse bad behavior and flakiness. I've only met one person in my life that I would consider an alpha. He's the CEO for a very large corporation. He commands respect anywhere he goes and without being gruff or loud or flirtatious or by throwing money around. People don't even have to know who he is, they can just tell he's in charge. Seeing as he's in his 70's, it's really amazing to witness. I'll never have that and I can say that honestly and without shame.

So, because you're interested in your needs first, you don't like independent women? And you think if sex, companionship, dating/marrying a man attractive to them, wanting help with the chores and wanting their bf/husband to be proud of them, you're not going to get what you want out of the relationship? Why is that? What do you think you're going to be missing?

Why do you think independent women think they're alpha females? And why do you think they're just bitchy and flaky?

Yeah, I don't get the selfish thing. Being independent just means that someone can take care of themselves and doesn't necessarily have to rely on others to get things done. It doesn't mean help isn't nice sometimes or having someone to be there isn't nice either.

I get the idea that those who don't like independent women have to feel needed all the time. Maybe that's what spider means when he says an independent woman won't give a man what he needs?

Yeah, I don't get the selfish thing. Being independent just means that someone can take care of themselves and doesn't necessarily have to rely on others to get things done. It doesn't mean help isn't nice sometimes or having someone to be there isn't nice either.

OOPS--the above was a quote from singmesweet
and then, I said:
I, too am not sure where the "alpha" (other than from one person's post) and "selfish" labels are equated with independence. I thought it meant you are self-sustaining...i.e. don't live off the largess of another person's income (i.e. Mom & Dad, significant other, etc), don't constantly call others to handle things for you--for help with regards to tasks involved in daily living, etc. Quite a few generalizations going on....maybe what we have here is a failure to communicate (?) go figure.

Never thought about it. I am just me. However someone perceives me is their perception.

You know what I expect from a woman? I expect her to concern herself with my needs first. And I'll do the same for her. That's how I think relationships should work. If you don't agree, then we disagree, simple as that.



As already discussed, men get a great deal of self-esteem from helping their mate. Independent women don't want help, because they feel that it makes them appear weak. I've met independent women who are constantly pursuing a better mate, regardless of if they are married. It goes back the the normal woman concern for honesty, because she's in it to make a family, so she wants to know she's being treated right. If independent women share the same primary needs as a man, then they don't have a need for honesty and are more likely to cheat. Sometimes manifested as the "cuckoo syndrome". Wherein the woman will marry a good provider, but seek a superior male specimen to produce children.



From personal experience.



From personal experience.

Some independent men make women feel inadequate. I jerk off like crazy in my free time, and that intimidates women.

Right. If we don't do something about it right now, then our children will be next.

I like intelligent women. Very much. The more intelligent the women, and the larger their numbers are on the date, the more I enjoy myself.

I want her not to be needy, I wish she'd go out to work every day and be smart like crazy and be gorgeous and modelesque, but be in a wheel chair so she's always scared I'll push her in front of a bus, so she knows who is the boss, who wears the pants, who takes out the garbage, and who kills the spiders.

Yep. Ideal relationship for me.

Oh, she must be absolutely fantastic in bed, and pick up my dirty socs after me, and change the baby and breastfeed him, because I absolutely and positively refuse to do that.

If they are single, they have no choice but to be independent.

If they are independent, then they don't need a hubby...

both ways IS tautology.

When you are a child, you have no choice: You are dependent, and that's it.

When you grow up, you have several choices:

- independent
- co-dependent
- interdependent
- antidependent
- retro-dependent
- substance-dependent
- held in custody without bail
- full dependent
- king or queen; royalty; monarch; sovereign.

You can believe what you want but when a man says he can't be with me because I know too much (this about renos, traveling, military, etc) that says he doesn't want an intelligent woman. I personally don't want to be needed. You should be withsomeone because you genuinely enjoy being with them not because you are needy.

Exactly, I can do things for myself but if a guy offers help; I do appreciate it. I am up to my eyeballs in renovations and when my male friend offers help; I am very greatful.

Well, I do put my needs first but that doesn't mean I don't care for another person. This is real life and not some fairy tale. No one cares if you put others needs above your own; they will just walk all over you. There are no guarantees in life and no matter how much you love someone; how much you give them, putting their needs first, etc; there is still a chance they will leave you. I don't see a need to submit to anyone as I have no wish to be dominated. To me its about respecting each other as equals and ironically I learned that from men that I served in the military with. Fact is I have met some great guys that do exactly that; treat their partners as equals which is why they are no longer single. Guys like that are indeed rare which I find so sad.