Cowboy...
You are so naive. If you would just use your common sense and forget all that religious brain washing plaguing you, I think you would be a very smart and very nice guy. They have ruined you as a person.

Well that's special.

Do you honestly think that just because the Bible tells a man to "love his wife" that he is going to do it?

Sure, he loves her.... and he can also beat the crap out of her any time he wants. Back in those days, nobody did anything about it. A man was expected to keep his wife in line and the wife was expected to keep here mouth shut. She was rarely allowed to have an opinion.

A lot of real fundamentalist today still hold those kinds of beliefs.

I condone absolutely no killing. Even with your twist of a judgment there, still doesn't work. For we are not to judge anyone. So still no killing of anyone done by any mortal people.

Kleisto wrote:

You're missing the point. Regardless of how they got there, they stayed because they felt they had no choice. If that doesn't say something about the fruits of religion not much will.

Cowboy wrote:

These women obviously shouldn't have married this man in the first place. Why did these women marry a man that would possibly abuse her later on? Why did they not wait and see if that was the man for her? Sounds like these women brought it upon themselves

Yes people did this and what I am showing is it's not supported by the Christian belief. So it is pointless to try to assimilate the two together.

There are many sects who still believe these things. They call themselves Christians.

And still, the people, on orders from their leader Joshua, who claimed to have orders from the all might god, had to pick up their swords and murder men, women and children. They beheaded most of them. They stole their goods, and they probably did a bit of raping and blundering along the way.

ALL THIS BY ORDER OF THE ALL MIGHTY GOD.

This is an outrage. This is not the work of God. It is the work of EVIL.

YOU WILL KNOW EVIL BY THEIR DEEDS. THEIR DEEDS. MURDER, PLUNDER, THEFT, RAPE. THEIR DEEDS.

Exactly. Besides their are tons of well-documented cases of women feeling pressured by this religion to stay in abusive relationships.

So the real-world reality of the situation far outweighs Cowboy's very young and inexperienced personal views.

His claim that such situations were not the fruit of religion is also extremely naive. His statement below says it all:



That's about as naive as can be.

After all, most women who TRUST in God, also TRUST in their boyfriends and they also TRUST that God hooked them up with the right guy!

For them to DOUBT that the guy is right would be to DOUBT God!

How can you TRUST God do guide you thought your life, if you refuse to TRUST God?

If you're going to question everything yourself and test everything to the limit, then what's the point in even trusting God in the first place?

That would be a person who has no FAITH in God at all.

After all, most women who TRUST in God, also TRUST in their boyfriends and they also TRUST that God hooked them up with the right guy!

Goes along with what I was saying, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, that son of a gun is a duck.

If they walk as a Christian, talk as a Christian, and behave like a Christian, that son of a gun is a Christian.

Just because someone takes the "title" Christian, doesn't make them Christian. Look at the root of that word, Christ. Christian literally means Christ like. If someone isn't doing as Christ did and or told us to do or not do, how can that person be Christ "like"?

There are many Christians who would say that YOU are not a Christian.
Every denomination actually thinks that THEY are the chosen few who God will favor or that THEY and only they have it right. Everyone else who call themselves Christian are fooling themselves.

So I'm not buying that crap.

Anyone who believes that Jesus is the son of God and carries around a Bible, is a Christian. Everyone who claims to be a Christian and goes to church is a Christian or a liar.

But I'm not going to call people liars. If they say they are a Christian, who am I to disagree. I am taking their word for it, and so should you.

Unless you want to call them a liar to their face.

No wouldn't call them a liar or anything. But I can claim to be Japanese till I'm blue in the face.

Yes this is a little different, this is speaking of races and not necessarily a choice.

But point being, just because someone claims to be something, doesn't make it so. Takes more then just words to justify such a thing. Now again, no judging their stance with God. Just merely making a general fact of things.

Cowboy wrote:

Possibly even live with him first, you know just to see if she could handle his morning breath. Lol sorry, sorta jk. But yes, this woman should have lived with the man first, to see if they could handle each other being around each so much. It's quite a bit different seeing your spouse part of the day and or with days inbetween compared to being around him/her all the time basically.

How would you like it if I called you a liar? Jesus teaches love and forgiveness and yet you support God's "judgement" killing of all those people. That seems like a conflict to me. On the one hand, killing is wrong, and on the other hand its okay to kill on the order of an angry God.

Makes no sense at all to me.

Bad analogy. You don't chose what race you are.

So just because you claim to be a Christian, that does not mean you are?

People chose what political party they join, they chose what religion they follow. They either follow it or they are liars.

Point is, YOU have no right to judge whether they are real Christians or not.

If they say they are, then you should take their word for it, or else call them a liar.

How would you like it if I called you a liar? Jesus teaches love and forgiveness and yet you support God's "judgement" killing of all those people. That seems like a conflict to me. On the one hand, killing is wrong, and on the other hand its okay to kill on the order of an angry God.

Makes no sense at all to me.

Jeannie wrote:

Point is, YOU have no right to judge whether they are real Christians or not.

Well, that's a big no-no in Christianity. You're not supposed to live with someone outside of wedlock. That would be highly frowned upon by any Christian Church or society.

If the religion had actually suggested such wise things then it would be a totally different religion.

Show me in the Bible where the wisdom of living together before marrying is laid out. Did Jesus suggest this?

I can't imagine it being in the Old Testament.

This is news to me. Sounds to me like you're once again trying to make up your own religion and call that "Christianity".

You seem to have just fallen in love with Jesus. You apparently don't like the God of the Old Testament and basically dismiss most of his attitude and behaviors save for the prejudices that you would like to personally support.

I'd say that you are indeed a thoroughly modern "Designer Christian".

I imagine as you grow older you'll eventually see the futility of it and move on to religions that will actually support some of your better views.

I'm not sure if you're aware of it but Wicca has you beat on this idea of living together for a trial-period before actual marriage. They call it Hand-fasting.

They take an oath to live together as "husband and wife" for a year-and-a-day. They are not supposed to have children during this trial period, not even become pregnant during this trial period.

So the idea is that they are either practicing abstinence or have a whole lot of faith in their planned parenthood methods.

In any case, after the year is up they decide whether they want to marry for a longer period of time or not.

I personally think that's a great idea. And I fully support it. But that kind of "wisdom" doesn't come from the Bible. The Bible simply doesn't contain that kind of wisdom. The Bible is pretty devoid of that kind of wisdom.

If the Biblical stories actually contained that kind of wisdom they might be worthy of consideration. But they don't. And that's just the fact of it.

That. To go even further, the Bible says God is all merciful, all forgiving, and yet.....He goes around and does this? There's another contradiction.

Cowboy wrote:

No, you just argue for the sake of arguing. I never once said the bible supported living with someone before marriage. I said it would PROBABLY be a good idea. And living with someone doesn't mean sleeping with that someone.

I noticed a lot of your post mentioned having children and or getting pregnant. What does that have to do with living with one another? Heck, two people that live with one another wouldn't even have to see each other naked if they didn't wish to. Why so fixated on sex?