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| Topic: Mind control and religion....... | |
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One last time: God wants RELATIONSHIP , NOT RELIGION with His creation. Religion is HEAD KNOWLEDGE OF GOD( mind ) RELATIONSHIP is HEART KNOWLEDGE OF GOD(man's spirit is born again ) . Jesus said, "My Sheep Hear My Voice , and the Voice of a Stranger They Will Not Follow". WHEN a person has HEART knowledge(is born again), that person will NOT follow after every whim of doctrine.... but will be able to DISCERN what is Truth and not Truth, because of the Holy Spirit now indwelling and leading him. However.....A person CAN be led astray, when he begins to COMPROMISE the WORD OF GOD. Then it becomes easy for him to fall for ERROR and be mislead into all kinds of ERRONEOUS TEACHINGS, simply because he decided to compromise God's Word. When we compromise God's Word, we open the door for the enemy to come in , and easily decieve us. ANYBODY can say that they know the bible, but if what they teach does NOT line up with God's Word, they are then compromising the Word of God. They may have STARTED OFF teaching the Truth of the Word, but then got OFF into error....because they were NO LONGER being led of the HOLY Spirit , but of the flesh. (OR ....they were never led of the Holy Spirit in the first place, but had only religion, because they were never born again.) That is why it is Important , when listening to some preacher , to CHECK OUT and SEE WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS FOR ONESELF..... and NOT follow after man....or after every whim of doctrine being preached out there today. 
You're still subscribing to a religion though when you tie your beliefs solely into what a book says. You cannot separate the two. What do all churches have in common? As much as they differ, they all teach from the same source, being the Bible. Coincidence? No subscribing to any "religion". Only submitting ourselves to the will of God. Which is then called religion because of people that lack there of. It's considered religion to keep it out of the for sure area cause they do not wish to believe in it, they do not wish for it to be true. So they put it on a level that may or may not be true, religion. Makes them feel more comfortable about their beliefs in God and or lack there of. How do you KNOW it's the will of God Cowboy? Does God tell you or does man? A book can claim to be something, but it doesn't neccessarily make it true. And once more, you are showing you are doing more than discussing, when you claim something is unequivically from God. It puts your beliefs above all others, whether you admit that or not, whether you realize that or not. How do you KNOW it's the will of God Cowboy? Does God tell you or does man? Yes God lets me know, God lets everyone know. Just some ignore his message, get mad over it, get frustrated with it. But nevertheless God tells everyone, it is the person's choice to listen or not. It puts your beliefs above all others, whether you admit that or not, whether you realize that or Why do people in their discussing try to point fingers and make the Christian(s) look bad? Cause you do the exact same thing, when you renounce a belief and hold another belief, you are automatically putting your beliefs above all others. Why would you follow a belief you truly seen as the least of the beliefs? Wouldn't make much sense. There's a difference between Christians and people like myself and Jeannie, Cowboy. Not once do we say, you MUST believe what we believe or you will not have salvation when this life ends. We may try to open your eyes a bit to the reality of what religion is all about, but whether you believe or not, it won't matter in the end, since we all go back from where we came anyway. That's the major difference right there, you don't have to believe us if you don't want to, but according to your beliefs, we HAVE to believe you and conform to your beliefs to be with God. Sure you might say we have the choice not to, but even then the whole eternal death thing is held over our heads for choosing to think different. Just a hypothetical question, no need to answer on this forum if you do not wish to. But how do you see as being the way to heaven? And or any other possible after life outcome? And or even reincarnation? If one does not measure up to these "standards" does that person achieve this "heaven"? If this person can still achieve this "heaven", then what importance are the rules and or "standards"? So with something having to be achieved by someone to accomplish the main goal, "heaven". Then of course someone could possibly miss out. So don't tell me that Christianity does this is a manner as other beliefs do not. All beliefs do pretty much the same thing just in a different way possibly. |
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Christians believe that their savior character Jesus is the only way into heaven and ever lasting life, for everyone. We can't help that they believe this. It is their belief. Oh well. We don't believe that nor do we believe them. Oh well. That is where the conversation should end. Sorta yes, sorta no. Yes the Christian belief is the only way to God is through Jesus. But why does it have to end there? Your statement here makes it sound as if the only reason for religious discussions is to try to convert the other and or change the other person's view. Why can we not just have a civil discussion in sharing with one another our different beliefs? If they don't agree with one another, that's fine. No harm done, just expressed our different beliefs and moved on. But, why can two people of different beliefs not discuss with one another on why they believe in their beliefs? Why does it have to amount to renouncing the other's beliefs? Cause that is not at all what is or would be happening. The two would just be sharing with each other their beliefs. Can two people not have different beliefs? |
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Just a hypothetical question, no need to answer on this forum if you do not wish to. But how do you see as being the way to heaven? And or any other possible after life outcome? And or even reincarnation?
If one does not measure up to these "standards" does that person achieve this "heaven"? If this person can still achieve this "heaven", then what importance are the rules and or "standards"? So with something having to be achieved by someone to accomplish the main goal, "heaven". Then of course someone could possibly miss out. So don't tell me that Christianity does this is a manner as other beliefs do not. All beliefs do pretty much the same thing just in a different way possibly. Religion is based on the "reward and punishment" ideal. Heaven or Hell or death is a religious notion. Why do these have to be the only choices after death? In this United States there are many cities. One city is called Hell. It is in Michigan. (seriously) I bet there is also a city somewhere called "heaven." Point is, besides heaven and hell, there are many other cities you can go to. This is a huge universe. Paradise is not the only place to go. Where you go after you leave this world is largely you own choice. Even Jesus said: "In my father's house there are many mansions." That's an understatement. |
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Christians believe that their savior character Jesus is the only way into heaven and ever lasting life, for everyone. We can't help that they believe this. It is their belief. Oh well. We don't believe that nor do we believe them. Oh well. That is where the conversation should end. Why can two people of different beliefs not have nice, polite, kind conversations about their different beliefs? Not necessarily for converting the other, just discussing and sharing. Just pure enlightenment. For example, I don't believe in it being true, but I find it interesting. So I used to read quite a bit on Greek Mythology. Why could this sorta sharing of beliefs with another person of a different religion not accure? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 05/22/11 09:59 PM
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Christians believe that their savior character Jesus is the only way into heaven and ever lasting life, for everyone. We can't help that they believe this. It is their belief. Oh well. We don't believe that nor do we believe them. Oh well. That is where the conversation should end. Sorta yes, sorta no. Yes the Christian belief is the only way to God is through Jesus. But why does it have to end there? Your statement here makes it sound as if the only reason for religious discussions is to try to convert the other and or change the other person's view. Why can we not just have a civil discussion in sharing with one another our different beliefs? If they don't agree with one another, that's fine. No harm done, just expressed our different beliefs and moved on. But, why can two people of different beliefs not discuss with one another on why they believe in their beliefs? Why does it have to amount to renouncing the other's beliefs? Cause that is not at all what is or would be happening. The two would just be sharing with each other their beliefs. Can two people not have different beliefs? It usually ends there, for me, because I have no desire to change your beliefs and I am already very familiar with what they are. So I don't personally need to know any more about them. I know you aren't interested in what I believe so the conversation ends. Unless you are interested in my beliefs, the conversation ends. But unless you are not satisfied with your beliefs, why would you be interested in mine? |
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One last time: God wants RELATIONSHIP , NOT RELIGION with His creation. Religion is HEAD KNOWLEDGE OF GOD( mind ) RELATIONSHIP is HEART KNOWLEDGE OF GOD(man's spirit is born again ) . Jesus said, "My Sheep Hear My Voice , and the Voice of a Stranger They Will Not Follow". WHEN a person has HEART knowledge(is born again), that person will NOT follow after every whim of doctrine.... but will be able to DISCERN what is Truth and not Truth, because of the Holy Spirit now indwelling and leading him. However.....A person CAN be led astray, when he begins to COMPROMISE the WORD OF GOD. Then it becomes easy for him to fall for ERROR and be mislead into all kinds of ERRONEOUS TEACHINGS, simply because he decided to compromise God's Word. When we compromise God's Word, we open the door for the enemy to come in , and easily decieve us. ANYBODY can say that they know the bible, but if what they teach does NOT line up with God's Word, they are then compromising the Word of God. They may have STARTED OFF teaching the Truth of the Word, but then got OFF into error....because they were NO LONGER being led of the HOLY Spirit , but of the flesh. (OR ....they were never led of the Holy Spirit in the first place, but had only religion, because they were never born again.) That is why it is Important , when listening to some preacher , to CHECK OUT and SEE WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS FOR ONESELF..... and NOT follow after man....or after every whim of doctrine being preached out there today.
You're still subscribing to a religion though when you tie your beliefs solely into what a book says. You cannot separate the two. What do all churches have in common? As much as they differ, they all teach from the same source, being the Bible. Coincidence? No subscribing to any "religion". Only submitting ourselves to the will of God. Which is then called religion because of people that lack there of. It's considered religion to keep it out of the for sure area cause they do not wish to believe in it, they do not wish for it to be true. So they put it on a level that may or may not be true, religion. Makes them feel more comfortable about their beliefs in God and or lack there of. How do you KNOW it's the will of God Cowboy? Does God tell you or does man? A book can claim to be something, but it doesn't neccessarily make it true. And once more, you are showing you are doing more than discussing, when you claim something is unequivically from God. It puts your beliefs above all others, whether you admit that or not, whether you realize that or not. How do you KNOW it's the will of God Cowboy? Does God tell you or does man? Yes God lets me know, God lets everyone know. Just some ignore his message, get mad over it, get frustrated with it. But nevertheless God tells everyone, it is the person's choice to listen or not. It puts your beliefs above all others, whether you admit that or not, whether you realize that or Why do people in their discussing try to point fingers and make the Christian(s) look bad? Cause you do the exact same thing, when you renounce a belief and hold another belief, you are automatically putting your beliefs above all others. Why would you follow a belief you truly seen as the least of the beliefs? Wouldn't make much sense. There's a difference between Christians and people like myself and Jeannie, Cowboy. Not once do we say, you MUST believe what we believe or you will not have salvation when this life ends. We may try to open your eyes a bit to the reality of what religion is all about, but whether you believe or not, it won't matter in the end, since we all go back from where we came anyway. That's the major difference right there, you don't have to believe us if you don't want to, but according to your beliefs, we HAVE to believe you and conform to your beliefs to be with God. Sure you might say we have the choice not to, but even then the whole eternal death thing is held over our heads for choosing to think different. Just a hypothetical question, no need to answer on this forum if you do not wish to. But how do you see as being the way to heaven? And or any other possible after life outcome? And or even reincarnation? If one does not measure up to these "standards" does that person achieve this "heaven"? If this person can still achieve this "heaven", then what importance are the rules and or "standards"? So with something having to be achieved by someone to accomplish the main goal, "heaven". Then of course someone could possibly miss out. I don't think anyone can. I think all paths lead back to the same God in the end regardless of what we do here, and that we can and do in fact reincarnate as well if we choose to come back. As for the importance of rules and standards if we all go to the same place? Simple. Certain things will result in a happy and well lived life, other things not so much. Just because the eventual end for all of us will be the same, doesn't mean there aren't natural consequences while we are down here, or that we should just do anything we want because we can. Not everything is in our best interests. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 05/22/11 10:05 PM
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For example, I don't believe in it being true, but I find it interesting. So I used to read quite a bit on Greek Mythology. Why could this sorta sharing of beliefs with another person of a different religion not accure?
1. I don't wish to be a subject of 'study." 2. My beliefs are personal and my relationship with God is personal. 3. I have no desire to convince you to believe as I do. 4. I have no reason to believe my beliefs are of any use or interest to you. 5. Considering all of the above, it just seems to be a waste of time. But mostly: Its just personal information I don't wish to share with you knowing what you believe. |
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Christians believe that their savior character Jesus is the only way into heaven and ever lasting life, for everyone. We can't help that they believe this. It is their belief. Oh well. We don't believe that nor do we believe them. Oh well. That is where the conversation should end. Sorta yes, sorta no. Yes the Christian belief is the only way to God is through Jesus. But why does it have to end there? Your statement here makes it sound as if the only reason for religious discussions is to try to convert the other and or change the other person's view. Why can we not just have a civil discussion in sharing with one another our different beliefs? If they don't agree with one another, that's fine. No harm done, just expressed our different beliefs and moved on. But, why can two people of different beliefs not discuss with one another on why they believe in their beliefs? Why does it have to amount to renouncing the other's beliefs? Cause that is not at all what is or would be happening. The two would just be sharing with each other their beliefs. Can two people not have different beliefs? It usually ends there, for me, because I have no desire to change your beliefs and I am already very familiar with what they are. So I don't personally need to know any more about them. I know you aren't interested in what I believe so the conversation ends. Unless you are interested in my beliefs, the conversation ends. But unless you are not satisfied with your beliefs, why would you be interested in mine? I have no desire to change mine either. But what is so wrong with sharing with one another? Where is the foul of another believing differently then you? And since you do not wish to learn more about another's beliefs, why exactly are you in a general religion forum? Why would you not go to a forum for your beliefs, if that's on this site or another site. Why would you go to some place you would be told about of other beliefs if you do not wish to hear it? |
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I have no desire to change mine either. But what is so wrong with sharing with one another? Where is the foul of another believing differently then you? And since you do not wish to learn more about another's beliefs, why exactly are you in a general religion forum? Why would you not go to a forum for your beliefs, if that's on this site or another site. Why would you go to some place you would be told about of other beliefs if you do not wish to hear it? Most people who have been on Mingle2 for as long as I have already are pretty familiar with my beliefs if they read my posts. I don't usually get into long discussions with people who don't have similar beliefs because we don't have much in common. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sun 05/22/11 10:34 PM
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“They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us” (1 John 2:19). Sadly, false teachers will ALSO use and twist these very words (above}, along with other scripture , to try and use against anyone who DARES try and leave their cult or false teaching. But even so....if one SEEKS after TRUTH with His WHOLE HEART, God Will DELIVER Him out of false religions or cults.... even if he is still involved in a cult or false teaching. This especially goes out to anyone out there...... who is/has been caught up in false teaching.
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I have no desire to change mine either. But what is so wrong with sharing with one another? Where is the foul of another believing differently then you? And since you do not wish to learn more about another's beliefs, why exactly are you in a general religion forum? Why would you not go to a forum for your beliefs, if that's on this site or another site. Why would you go to some place you would be told about of other beliefs if you do not wish to hear it? Most people who have been on Mingle2 for as long as I have already are pretty familiar with my beliefs if they read my posts. I don't usually get into long discussions with people who don't have similar beliefs because we don't have much in common. Fair enough, but not accurate lol. I do not know what belief you have. I know what belief you don't have, but as for the beliefs you do have I know not of. All the posts I've seen of you, are rejecting the Christian beliefs. Not saying you haven't shared your beliefs, just saying you have not done it as much as the expressing the beliefs you do not possess. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 05/22/11 10:20 PM
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I have no desire to change mine either. But what is so wrong with sharing with one another? Where is the foul of another believing differently then you? And since you do not wish to learn more about another's beliefs, why exactly are you in a general religion forum? Why would you not go to a forum for your beliefs, if that's on this site or another site. Why would you go to some place you would be told about of other beliefs if you do not wish to hear it? Most people who have been on Mingle2 for as long as I have already are pretty familiar with my beliefs if they read my posts. I don't usually get into long discussions with people who don't have similar beliefs because we don't have much in common. Fair enough, but not accurate lol. I do not know what belief you have. I know what belief you don't have, but as for the beliefs you do have I know not of. All the posts I've seen of you, are rejecting the Christian beliefs. Not saying you haven't shared your beliefs, just saying you have not done it as much as the expressing the beliefs you do not possess. I do not have any specific beliefs that fall into the category of a cult or religion. I simply evaluate information and draw my own personal conclusions and I have my own spirituality. As it has been stated: I have my own personal relationship with GOD. Its personal. |
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I have no desire to change mine either. But what is so wrong with sharing with one another? Where is the foul of another believing differently then you? And since you do not wish to learn more about another's beliefs, why exactly are you in a general religion forum? Why would you not go to a forum for your beliefs, if that's on this site or another site. Why would you go to some place you would be told about of other beliefs if you do not wish to hear it? Most people who have been on Mingle2 for as long as I have already are pretty familiar with my beliefs if they read my posts. I don't usually get into long discussions with people who don't have similar beliefs because we don't have much in common. Fair enough, but not accurate lol. I do not know what belief you have. I know what belief you don't have, but as for the beliefs you do have I know not of. All the posts I've seen of you, are rejecting the Christian beliefs. Not saying you haven't shared your beliefs, just saying you have not done it as much as the expressing the beliefs you do not possess. I do not have any specific beliefs that fall into the category of a cult or religion. I simply evaluate information and draw my own personal conclusions and I have my own spirituality. As it has been stated: I have my own personal relationship with GOD. Its personal. Hate to tell you, but it still falls into the category of "religion". Religion is a belief of something(s) not physical as in spirit, soul, ect ect. Belief in an entity or something after this life. And you said you had a relationship with God, this belief you possess constitutes a religious belief. Maybe not an "organized" religion, but nevertheless a religion. |
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Web definitions The term mind control (also known as brainwashing, coercive persuasion, thought control, or thought reform) refers to a process in which a group or individual systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s), often to the detriment of the person being manipulated". The term has been applied to any tactic, psychological or otherwise, which can be seen as subverting an individual's sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions or decision making I suppose religion can and has been used in the latter form, as has patriotism and 'academia' the former definition probalby happens much less often, as teaching our children values and standards is not 'unethical' in and of itself and no more 'unethical' if it comes from cultural standards of our community or from our religion or from our politics,, its quite natural to pass down what we feel is the best of ourselves to our children Nothing wrong with teaching morals or standards of how to be, but why do you need any organized religion to do that? Why not teach them to act forthright just because, and not because the church says it, or the Bible says to do it, etc etc. That's to say nothing of how other things get inevitably added in as being a part of this moral construct that really don't belong there. I dont believe organized religion is NEEDED to teach morals or standards, I think organized religion is a WAY To reach morals and standards just like a home economics class is not necessary for people to learn to cook, but having an organized summary about cooking, ie a book, or a class, is a WAY to help people learn |
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I have no desire to change mine either. But what is so wrong with sharing with one another? Where is the foul of another believing differently then you? And since you do not wish to learn more about another's beliefs, why exactly are you in a general religion forum? Why would you not go to a forum for your beliefs, if that's on this site or another site. Why would you go to some place you would be told about of other beliefs if you do not wish to hear it? Most people who have been on Mingle2 for as long as I have already are pretty familiar with my beliefs if they read my posts. I don't usually get into long discussions with people who don't have similar beliefs because we don't have much in common. Fair enough, but not accurate lol. I do not know what belief you have. I know what belief you don't have, but as for the beliefs you do have I know not of. All the posts I've seen of you, are rejecting the Christian beliefs. Not saying you haven't shared your beliefs, just saying you have not done it as much as the expressing the beliefs you do not possess. I do not have any specific beliefs that fall into the category of a cult or religion. I simply evaluate information and draw my own personal conclusions and I have my own spirituality. As it has been stated: I have my own personal relationship with GOD. Its personal. Hate to tell you, but it still falls into the category of "religion". Religion is a belief of something(s) not physical as in spirit, soul, ect ect. Belief in an entity or something after this life. And you said you had a relationship with God, this belief you possess constitutes a religious belief. Maybe not an "organized" religion, but nevertheless a religion. I'm not so sure that is true. If it is a 'religion' then I am the only member. LOL And it for sure isn't very 'organized.'
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LOL And most of the mind controlled do not know they are or have been mind controlled at all. They just believe "it is how it is". that would place us all under the category of the potentially mind controlled as I know of noone who believes it is how it isnt,,,, |
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I have no desire to change mine either. But what is so wrong with sharing with one another? Where is the foul of another believing differently then you? And since you do not wish to learn more about another's beliefs, why exactly are you in a general religion forum? Why would you not go to a forum for your beliefs, if that's on this site or another site. Why would you go to some place you would be told about of other beliefs if you do not wish to hear it? Most people who have been on Mingle2 for as long as I have already are pretty familiar with my beliefs if they read my posts. I don't usually get into long discussions with people who don't have similar beliefs because we don't have much in common. Fair enough, but not accurate lol. I do not know what belief you have. I know what belief you don't have, but as for the beliefs you do have I know not of. All the posts I've seen of you, are rejecting the Christian beliefs. Not saying you haven't shared your beliefs, just saying you have not done it as much as the expressing the beliefs you do not possess. I do not have any specific beliefs that fall into the category of a cult or religion. I simply evaluate information and draw my own personal conclusions and I have my own spirituality. As it has been stated: I have my own personal relationship with GOD. Its personal. Hate to tell you, but it still falls into the category of "religion". Religion is a belief of something(s) not physical as in spirit, soul, ect ect. Belief in an entity or something after this life. And you said you had a relationship with God, this belief you possess constitutes a religious belief. Maybe not an "organized" religion, but nevertheless a religion. I'm not so sure that is true. If it is a 'religion' then I am the only member. LOL And it for sure isn't very 'organized.'
Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. |
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Also repeating this one last time:
Religion is man reaching up to God. Relationship is God reaching down to man. Man may start off with religion, but hopefully and eventually, will find relationship. Back With God. GoodNite All.....
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Also repeating this one last time: Religion is man reaching up to God. Relationship is God reaching down to man. Man may start off with religion, but hopefully and eventually, will find relationship. Back With God. GoodNite All.....
Yes absolutely, very true. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sun 05/22/11 11:07 PM
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You're still subscribing to a religion though when you tie your beliefs solely into what a book says. You cannot separate the two.
What do all churches have in common? As much as they differ, they all teach from the same source, being the Bible. Coincidence? Kliesto..allow me to clarify something before I go: Kliesto.....just because we christians have a relationship now with God ( after becoming born again), does not mean that we now forsake the bible. No.....we just forsake religion,because we now have a relationship....but it takes the bible (WORD) to lead one to relationship. Now...the bible becomes our daily bread . Kliesto.....although we are no longer under just a religion , but in a relationship now, we still need to read and study that bible moreso than ever now.....DAILY IN FACT.... since the bible now becomes clear to us . (becasue our spiritual eyes have been opened). So yes..we still study the bible...we still go to church.... the difference now is, we are no longer just having religion..but relationship now...with God , in our hearts and in our worship. But it took the bible(WORD) to get us to relationship....so therefore, the BIBLE is still important... even MORE SO than ever. The Bible is the Living Word....FOOD for the spirit. And that BIBLE was NEVER MEANT to be turned into a RELIGION. MAN did that. That Holy Bible is meant for the whole wide world.....not just limited to "christian religion". Every book of the Bible points to Jesus..the Saviour for the Whole Wide World. 
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