Topic: Delusion
no photo
Wed 05/18/11 07:01 PM
Edited by MorningSong on Wed 05/18/11 07:18 PM
The purpose of the mosaic laws given in


the old testament , was to show man that ANY sin..

even the smallest sin ,

was STILL SIN in the

eyes of God....period.....


and also the laws were

given to teach man the Importance of obeying God.



But

God KNEW NO MAN could KEEP the law...

God KNEW man would fail miserably at this...


hence man's

need for a SAVIOUR .


God cannot look upon sin..sin separates man from God....

but AFTER one accepts Jesus ( who bore our sins so we wouldn't

have to anymore),

our sins are now washed away by the blood of Jesus,

and now we are no longer separated from God.


Also, after recieving Jesus into our hearts,we are no longer under

law,

but under GRACE.

HOWEVER ,we still keep God's laws,

but we keep God's laws out of LOVE for God now.

God's laws are now written on the tablets of our heart.


:heart::heart::heart:




josie68's photo
Wed 05/18/11 07:07 PM
Well truthfully I think the reason that I believe in God and Jesus is because its what I grew up with and the only God I heard about, everything else was an idol or false God.

so as I grew up I followed the same as I loved the safety of believing someone or something was there with me through the bad times, it always made me feel safe, even if my world was falling apart.

The Bible told me that I would never be given more than I could handle, so I always figured I had to be strong enough to get through everything that happened as otherwise God wouldnt have let it happen.

Now I really have no idea, I still believe in God, but really if I had grown up with something else than I would believe in that.

I guess you don't want to turn from something familiar as it has a safety to it, and what if you are wrong to turn away..

Yep well thats probably not the best reason to believe in something, but I trust and believe easily, so would have pretty much believed whatever was put in front of me..

no photo
Wed 05/18/11 07:12 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Wed 05/18/11 07:14 PM
Poppycock morningsong.

Mosaic law was a master to slave law.

The masters owned the slaves.

(The aliens owned the human slaves)

They DEMANDED obedience.

To them, the humans were not much better than animals.

To disobey was a sin punishable by death.

Like shooting a bad dog.

Because the masters owned the slaves, they had the power of life and death over them.

At some point the mixture of races got so out of hand some of the creators wanted to destroy the entire earth.

According to the Urantia book the planetary prince did not have to go there. According to the Urantia book he volunteered to continue the experiment and went. That, according to that book was Jesus, the planetary prince, the savior.

I don't know if any of that has any truth to it, I doubt that Jesus ever existed.

But from what I vaguely gather, since the planetary prince decided to go to the earth, the earth was spared rather than destroyed.

That's my own interpretation of the data.









no photo
Wed 05/18/11 07:17 PM

Doesn't Scientology have the same story which is based on a science fiction book written by its founder?

Aliens came to rule and created humans to do slave labor. They put down laws not to marry or mix with the imperfect species and death would be punishment and so forth......

I mean that is also considered a fairy tale for many people Jeannie.



I'm not very familiar with Scientology, but I think they have some sort of similar story. There are quite a few sources for similar stories, and many of them agree on what happened.

Whether you call them "aliens" or "angels" or "Gods" there is overwhelming evidence of an advanced civilization who did this kind of stuff.

I have picked information from many different sources and what I have written here agrees in general with these sources.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone call them "fairy tales."

There have even been some very good documentaries about an advanced race on the History and Discovery Channels recently. These things used to be shown on the Sci-fi channel. But not any more, as evidence becomes more convincing.

More than 69% of the population believe in aliens, and many of these people claim to have seen UFO's and there are thousands who claim to have direct contact or been abducted. Its nothing to scoff at.

But scoff people still do. Oh well. whoa








This reminds me of a few movies I watched actually. One is Stargate with Kurt Russel. The Egyptian God Ra created the human race and had them as slaves. He then left the planet to live on another planet to rule humans there.

The other movie series was "V" where a lizard like species created humans as slaves but to also have them to enjoy for food. We are like cows to them ready to be eaten when needed. The leader is a lady who is most feared by anything alive in the universe. The goddess that rules them all.

Now let us say this is all true.......

Who created the aliens, gods, goddesses?

How did they evolve?

no photo
Wed 05/18/11 07:19 PM
Edited by greeneyeman on Wed 05/18/11 07:21 PM

The purpose of the mosaic laws given in


the old testament , was to show man that ANY sin..

even the smallest sin ,

was STILL SIN in the

eyes of God....period.....


and also the laws were

given to teach man the Importance of obeying God.



But

God KNEW NO MAN could KEEP the law...

God KNEW man would fail miserably at this...


hence man's

need for a SAVIOUR .


God cannot look upon sin..sin separates man from God....

but AFTER one accepts Jesus ( who bore our sins so we wouldn't

have to anymore),

our sins are now washed away by the blood of Jesus,

and now we are no longer separated from God.


Aso, after recieving Jesus into our hearts,we are no longer under

law,

but under GRACE.

HOWEVER ,we keep God's law out of LOVE for God now.

:heart::heart::heart:






Wouldn't you find it odd that God made humans knowing they would be imperfect punishing them for the sins that he knows they will make. Why create such a species in the first place. Was he bored?

Reminds me of a movie just recently created "Clash of the Titans". It is actually a old movie but renewed. Zeus wants to punish humans for not worshipping him so he calls his brother from the underworld to do the task, which would represent the devil in the Christian bible.


no photo
Wed 05/18/11 07:19 PM

Poppycock morningsong.

Mosaic law was a master to slave law.

The masters owned the slaves.

(The aliens owned the human slaves)

They DEMANDED obedience.

To them, the humans were not much better than animals.

To disobey was a sin punishable by death.

Like shooting a bad dog.

Because the masters owned the slaves, they had the power of life and death over them.

At some point the mixture of races got so out of hand some of the creators wanted to destroy the entire earth.

According to the Urantia book the planetary prince did not have to go there. According to the Urantia book he volunteered to continue the experiment and went. That, according to that book was Jesus, the planetary prince, the savior.

I don't know if any of that has any truth to it, I doubt that Jesus ever existed.

But from what I vaguely gather, since the planetary prince decided to go to the earth, the earth was spared rather than destroyed.

That's my own interpretation of the data.













That's just crazy talk.... LOL!



msharmony's photo
Wed 05/18/11 07:22 PM

technically if you call your dad "father" thats a sin cause your calling him basically God....no chit i ain't lyin


not really, God and father have no absolute correlation

father, in the english language, has many definitions


msharmony's photo
Wed 05/18/11 07:28 PM

It is the will of God that you murder anyone who picks up a stick on a Saturday:

Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and they put him in custody, because it had not been declared what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Numbers 15:32-36

Please explain how one can follow these orders of a God that punishes mortals in such a manner. If the man wasn't allowed to work couldn't he just be punished with a spanking instead! Were the people suppose to freeze to death because they couldn't use wood that day? Maybe he needed it to start a small fire to roast a duck! Come on folks such a punishment as death. Moses....you surely had a odd way of punishment. Through fear you can control minds. That he surely did at that moment after he killed the man with stones although it states in the bible "thou shall not kill". Okay another contradiction right there.



"These are the things the LORD has commanded you to do: For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death….” (Exodus 35:1-2)

this man was shown great favor previously, and being an israelite was necessarily like a soldier for God, who (much like our own soldiers) suffer great consequence for dissodance which could cause the army to fail if repeated too often by too many

no photo
Wed 05/18/11 07:29 PM
Edited by MorningSong on Wed 05/18/11 07:51 PM
In order to make sense of the bible,

one must read and study the entire book.

And until man's spirtual eyes are opened,

he won't fully understand the bible.



Taking scripture out of context,

allows man none other ,

than an opportunity to make the bible say

any ole thing he wants the

bible to say.

Nuff said.

msharmony's photo
Wed 05/18/11 07:36 PM

Well truthfully I think the reason that I believe in God and Jesus is because its what I grew up with and the only God I heard about, everything else was an idol or false God.

so as I grew up I followed the same as I loved the safety of believing someone or something was there with me through the bad times, it always made me feel safe, even if my world was falling apart.

The Bible told me that I would never be given more than I could handle, so I always figured I had to be strong enough to get through everything that happened as otherwise God wouldnt have let it happen.

Now I really have no idea, I still believe in God, but really if I had grown up with something else than I would believe in that.

I guess you don't want to turn from something familiar as it has a safety to it, and what if you are wrong to turn away..

Yep well thats probably not the best reason to believe in something, but I trust and believe easily, so would have pretty much believed whatever was put in front of me..



its the most LOGICAL reason there is,,,people are 'told' or 'read' information put forth from others from a young age, and the preponderance of what they interpret or take from those lessons usually is only reinforced by those things in their life which match those lessons, unless not enough things match those lessons and therefore begin to cause doubt in what they were taught

most people believe MOST of their knowledge through faith in what they have been taught somewhere by someone else and how much their OWN Experiences either reinforce or refute those lessons,,,

no photo
Wed 05/18/11 08:14 PM


It is the will of God that you murder anyone who picks up a stick on a Saturday:

Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and they put him in custody, because it had not been declared what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Numbers 15:32-36

Please explain how one can follow these orders of a God that punishes mortals in such a manner. If the man wasn't allowed to work couldn't he just be punished with a spanking instead! Were the people suppose to freeze to death because they couldn't use wood that day? Maybe he needed it to start a small fire to roast a duck! Come on folks such a punishment as death. Moses....you surely had a odd way of punishment. Through fear you can control minds. That he surely did at that moment after he killed the man with stones although it states in the bible "thou shall not kill". Okay another contradiction right there.



"These are the things the LORD has commanded you to do: For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death….” (Exodus 35:1-2)

this man was shown great favor previously, and being an israelite was necessarily like a soldier for God, who (much like our own soldiers) suffer great consequence for dissodance which could cause the army to fail if repeated too often by too many



Sorry to tell you but putting someone to death for working is not logical. In that case there should be millions of deaths in the world occuring now according to the christian religion because many people including soldiers work on Sundays.

So in the end fundamental christians find that logical. Fortunately the rest of the world finds it illogical.

no photo
Wed 05/18/11 08:21 PM
Edited by greeneyeman on Wed 05/18/11 08:37 PM

In order to make sense of the bible,

one must read and study the entire book.

And until man's spirtual eyes are opened,

he won't fully understand the bible.



Taking scripture out of context,

allows man none other ,

than an opportunity to make the bible say

any ole thing he wants the

bible to say.

Nuff said.



Some of the brightest people who are very spiritual have read the bible and still don't agree with it. It is illogical and it is sad that fundamentalist christians will try anything to make theocracy a rule of any society (even if they don't admit it) = (actions speak everything) and overshadow a system a country may have. I consider myself lucky (in this time and age) that very bright people recognize the bible for what it is....a fairy tale and nothing more and that the christians cannot determine how we should live anymore. Otherwise I would be a heathen and burned at stake! If everyone followed such a illogical belief system we would be back in the dark ages believing in superstitions and living in fear. It would hinder brilliant minds to prosper.

Now you have a merry little day. Of you go now. :)


no photo
Wed 05/18/11 08:30 PM
The LORD said to me, “See, I have begun to deliver Sihon and his land over to you. Begin to occupy, that you may possess his land.” Then Sihon with all his people came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz. The LORD our God delivered him over to us, and we defeated him with his sons and all his people. So we captured all his cities at that time and utterly destroyed the men, women and children of every city. We left no survivor.

Deuteronomy 2:31-34


Note: Even the innocent children were slaughtered! How could you follow such a belief system??

no photo
Wed 05/18/11 08:31 PM
Thus Joshua struck all the land, the hill country and the Negev and the lowland and the slopes and all their kings. He left no survivor, but he utterly destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.

Joshua 10:40


Note: Even babies who didn't know how to walk were slaughtered. :( Very sad picture if you ask me.

no photo
Wed 05/18/11 08:33 PM
There was not a city which made peace with the sons of Israel except the Hivites living in Gibeon; they took them all in battle. For it was [the will] of the LORD to harden their hearts, [so they would] meet Israel in battle in order that he might utterly destroy them, that they might receive no mercy, but that he might destroy them, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Joshua 11:19-20


Note: Moses's own ruined mind floated on power and used it to brainwash his people to do such atrocities.

no photo
Wed 05/18/11 08:35 PM
Thus says the LORD of hosts, “I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”

1 Samuel 15:2-3

Note: There goes the eye for eye, tooth for tooth rule. I am sure Jesus was trying to teach otherwise and suffered the consequence for doing so. What ashame that such great men die for truly trying to teach a more peaceful approach to resolving differences and issues.

no photo
Wed 05/18/11 09:02 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Wed 05/18/11 09:14 PM


Doesn't Scientology have the same story which is based on a science fiction book written by its founder?

Aliens came to rule and created humans to do slave labor. They put down laws not to marry or mix with the imperfect species and death would be punishment and so forth......

I mean that is also considered a fairy tale for many people Jeannie.



I'm not very familiar with Scientology, but I think they have some sort of similar story. There are quite a few sources for similar stories, and many of them agree on what happened.

Whether you call them "aliens" or "angels" or "Gods" there is overwhelming evidence of an advanced civilization who did this kind of stuff.

I have picked information from many different sources and what I have written here agrees in general with these sources.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone call them "fairy tales."

There have even been some very good documentaries about an advanced race on the History and Discovery Channels recently. These things used to be shown on the Sci-fi channel. But not any more, as evidence becomes more convincing.

More than 69% of the population believe in aliens, and many of these people claim to have seen UFO's and there are thousands who claim to have direct contact or been abducted. Its nothing to scoff at.

But scoff people still do. Oh well. whoa








This reminds me of a few movies I watched actually. One is Stargate with Kurt Russel. The Egyptian God Ra created the human race and had them as slaves. He then left the planet to live on another planet to rule humans there.

The other movie series was "V" where a lizard like species created humans as slaves but to also have them to enjoy for food. We are like cows to them ready to be eaten when needed. The leader is a lady who is most feared by anything alive in the universe. The goddess that rules them all.

Now let us say this is all true.......

Who created the aliens, gods, goddesses?

How did they evolve?




Things were not "created."

They manifested and evolved.

(I have heard that the series "V" was the closest to the truth about the reptilian aliens.

I hope that's not true, because if it is, we could really be in trouble when the queen returns to claim her earth.

Yes, she owns it apparently.

I heard they would be sending one of her princesses though, not the real queen mother. I'm sure she is just as terrifying.)

(rumors from the alien culture)




wux's photo
Wed 05/18/11 09:10 PM
Edited by wux on Wed 05/18/11 09:15 PM

Are we delusional to believe our mortal fathers to be our fathers,, after all, we werent there to see it?

should we all first get a DNA Test before we start espousing who our fathers are? are we delusional to trust the word and the history and the experience of those around us who confide in us about the history we could not possibly remember for ourself?

I find it sad that there is such a philosophy that faith has to somehow be 'delusional', its as sad as the assumption that a lack of faith is 'selfish'


Carrying the metaphor a step further:

If my father and mom adopted me, and have been good parents, in my esteem, I view them with as much adoration and respect and love as if they were my own blood. So whether or not my parents are really my parents (you can't be sure about your mom, either -- you were there, but did not see much did you), I love them for how they behave, then

I don't care how true my religion is, whether it can be wrestled to the ground or not, by other religions or by atheists (ahem), if my religion provides me with a faith and an understanding of the world that I can live with and blossom in with my religion's help,

then I keep the religion and view it as my own, much like I would my parents, regardless whether they are blood-related to me or not.

(how is this for a long-overdue heartfelt apology, MsHarmonY?)

(I don't know how to do fancy smilies. Imagine the following: A blushing smiley, and a bouquet of flowers.)

no photo
Wed 05/18/11 09:19 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Wed 05/18/11 09:20 PM

Thus Joshua struck all the land, the hill country and the Negev and the lowland and the slopes and all their kings. He left no survivor, but he utterly destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.

Joshua 10:40


Note: Even babies who didn't know how to walk were slaughtered. :( Very sad picture if you ask me.



Indeed it is.

And this is the God they worship.

And this is the God they wish to serve for eternity.

This, in my opinion, is more like Satan, or an evil alien pretending to be a God.




no photo
Wed 05/18/11 10:08 PM
Edited by MorningSong on Wed 05/18/11 10:21 PM
Out of the Lineage of David, came Our Lord and Saviour

Jesus Christ.

But Certain conditions had to be MET, in that bloodline ,

in order for Jesus to come into the world, and become the

Saviour of the world.


In other words, that bloodline could NOT be DEFILED ,

In order for Jesus to become the perfect unbemished spotless

sacrificial lamb, who taketh away the sins of the world.


And BECAUSE that bloodline was undefiled,

Jesus was born perfectly sinless man as well as perfect God.


JESUS IS PERFECTLY GOD AND PERFECTLY MAN, WITHOUT SIN !!!!



Point is....GOD KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING!!!


And as far as the children ?

They all went to heaven....to a better place.

(ALL children automatically go to heaven, because they are

not able to understand yet).

There was mercy in God doing it that way....rather than to leave

them behind... to suffer.


Again,God's Ways are MUCH Higher than Our Ways....

His Understanding is Far GREATER than Ours.....

and Far ABOVE anything we could even begin to Know

or Imagine!!!



This is why one must study the bible,

and that is not something one can accomplish in just a few

readings.


It takes a lifetime of study to even BEGIN to know and understand

the depths and riches that lie within the pages of that book...

and even then,

one would still

barely touch the surface of All that is contained within

that Holy Book called the BIBLE!!!


:heart::heart::heart: