2 billion people on our planet have chosen Christianity as a faith. Some just checked the box and don't even read the bible yet claim they are whatever denomination they choose to be. Some are self-proclaimed and others through tradition. It is your choice if you are such....yet open your minds once in awhile and truly understand what you have gotten yourself into. We heathens, pagans, witches, agnostics, and atheists have also read your bible and find many things appalling and hateful in it. Hopefully you can explain your reasons logically why you chose this religion when such verses appear in this book that is so called holy and written by men who claim to have been inspired by god to write it.


Let us start with this one:

It is the will of God to solve his problems with apocalyptic mass murder, including the horrible drowning of millions of people (including men, women, children, and babies) and billions of animals (though apparently sparing fish for some reason):

[The LORD said to Noah], “I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights. And I will blot out from the face of the land every living thing that I have made.” … Then the flood came upon the earth for forty days … The water prevailed more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered. … All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and beasts and every swarming thing that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind; of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died. Thus He blotted out every living thing that was upon the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky, and they were blotted out from the earth; and only Noah was left, together with those that were with him in the ark.

Found in Genesis 7:4, 17-23


Why can't a Christian study more about how the climate changes on Earth, natural catastrophes and why they happen logically as described by so many geologists, meteorologists, archaelogists, and other scientists who write books and create movies about it? Instead many usually rely souly on the bibles conclusions written by desert nomads that thought the planet was flat and understood little of how our planet functions.

As time goes by I will post a few more versus for everyone to read and discuss.

The Urantia book goes into detail about the so called life of Jesus but it also goes into a lot of detail about the beings who took part in the creation and in the manipulation of humankind on the earth, the war in heaven etc.

The Bible says, "Let us make man in our image."

I have heard a lot of excuses and explanations for this passage but I don't buy the Father, son, holy ghost explanation for why this is plural. There were many beings who took part in the manipulation of humankind on the earth.

Earth was populated with primitive humans. Who do you think the sons of Adam and Eve went out to marry? The primitive humans.

The Adam and Eve project (their were many according to the Urantia book) was a project by these other beings to inject new DNA into the human population on the earth.

The problem on earth, I think, was that there were some other creators who were doing their own Adam and Eve projects in different parts of the world. These were the "fallen angels" who rebelled against the status quo. This is who Christians called "Satan" and his other revolutionaries who rebelled.

The Urantia book speaks about how genocide was a common practice to clear the earth of undesirable human populations that grew up out of these other DNA and breeding experiments. But the earth was over run and the mixing of the races made this very difficult.

These creator "gods" felt (and still feel) that because they "created" a race, that they have the power and duty to exterminate what they feel are their mistakes.

If you look at the world today, you will still see genocide happening all the time. Today it is done with wars, starvation, secret projects etc. Question is who is really behind this? Are these advance beings who tinkered with humans still working behind the scenes here on earth? Who has this kind of power?

Depends on how you look at it. For example(s)

1. God could have not flooded the world "starting over" and we would have been involved in and or with the tremendous "evil" that was on the planet. You think the world is bad now about murder, crime, ect ect. Now imagine how much worse the world has gotten in the past say 50 years. Now using that same increased measurement, multiply that by a couple thousand and you'll have how much crime, murder, evil doings, ect would be here now if the world hadn't "started over".

2. The only reward "outcome" of sin is death. The world had turned away from God, started doing their own agendas and not obeying God. Yes the world has somewhat gotten that way now, but ratio wise, there are still quite a bit of followers. There is still quite a bit of people that try to obey God and do his will, laying their lives down for him. Point being, the only reward for sin is death and the majority at that time had become disobedient. Flooding the world and ridding the world of these people have a couple bonuses. They no longer would be able to hurt others and they possibly couldn't influence a follower to do opposing actions that were disobedient.

Or as God did, he could start over again. Now the first time "before the flood" wasn't a "failure" nor can this be blamed on God for happening because of free will. No matter what one does, one can not make you love them.

Thought your post was quite interesting, but have a question about this particular part.



How would a God(s) have any power over starvation, wars, ect less you're claiming they took some people's free will away and or came to Earth in human form to initiate these things in certain areas.

War: This is initiated by a person(s). Less you're saying the God(s) came down in human form to initiate such a thing. And or controlled a person(s) to cause them to start a war. This is a decision made purely by a person(s), the only one to blame for the war(s) is the people that started it, less of course again you are saying they took control of a person(s) and or took their free will away causing them to start the war, or even just came down in human form to cause such a thing to occur.

First, I don't actually consider any of these beings to be "gods." They are beings of and from another world perhaps, but not Gods.

The power over starvation comes from how they control the wars. These beings have infiltrated our society and they occupy powerful positions of leadership and they control humans to do their will with bribery, extortion, blackmail etc.

People are deprived of food and water via war. Even when humanitarians try to send help, the food and water and supplies are confiscated by the armies who are in control. The people are left to starve on purpose. This is genocide. They are following orders from the top.





God did not exactly "come down." These beings are here and have always been here. They are not Gods.

But let me give you an example: Joshua was told to order his men to go into the promised land and slaughter without mercy, all the men, women and children by one of these beings. Now you claim that was "God." I say no, that was not God. In any case, that is how "gods" start wars etc. They get humans to do their bidding by what ever means necessary. Joshua was a pawn.

Was his 'free will' taken away? Nope. He just obeyed without question, a being who he thought was God almighty.




Does "god" take your free will away when he orders you to do something? No he doesn't. You have a choice to obey or not right?

Joshua believed God gave him an order. He obeyed.

Humans are easy to manipulate. It is easy to talk someone into killing their enemy. It's called "propaganda."

If you go all the way to the top of the power structures of this world, you will probably find people who worship these beings and take orders from them.

They are not gods.

there are many places in the bible which describe the world as not FLAT at all,, it just depends upon your interpretation

as much as we could learn from the atrocity of the holocaust, we can learn from similar atrocities of men in the bible,,,

history of man has many appalling and hateful things, and the bible is indeed, amongst other things, a history book


why assume that christians dont study other things,,,why assume that the biblical account of God cant involve a God who created those 'logical' changes you speak of?

Whatever! :(. Only kidding :)

Are we delusional to believe our mortal fathers to be our fathers,, after all, we werent there to see it?

should we all first get a DNA Test before we start espousing who our fathers are? are we delusional to trust the word and the history and the experience of those around us who confide in us about the history we could not possibly remember for ourself?

I find it sad that there is such a philosophy that faith has to somehow be 'delusional', its as sad as the assumption that a lack of faith is 'selfish'

technically if you call your dad "father" thats a sin cause your calling him basically God....no chit i ain't lyin

Well, that's not exactly true either. Anyone who is familiar with fish-keeping can tell you that there are freshwater species of fish and salt water species of fish, and that fish are extremely sensitive to saline content of the water.

Had there truly been such a world-wide flood as the biblical fables claim, then all the freshwater and saltwater of the earth would have been all mixed together during that flood. It would have been an ecological mess for the fishes of the world.

Also when those waters receded how would the fresh water fish find their way back into streams and freshwater lakes (that clearly wouldn't even contain fresh water after the flood).?

This just further evidence that these stories are necessarily fables.

Yes there were many floods in the world but never a flood that covered the entire planet.

Believing in an authority is not delusional. Delusional would be the person who swears that he saw Jesus or God or some imaginary guru that does not truly exist.

Believing in an authority without sufficient evidence is gullible, not delusional. I was gullible to believe in Santa Clause but the only reason I did was that I trusted that my parents would not lie to me about such a thing. Well they did. That is what annoyed me the most. To discover that a trusted authority was lying to me.

Even as a small child I was skeptical and logical. I was a seeker of truth at a very young age. Why would anyone lie to me? After the Santa Claus incident, I was more skeptical of authority figures than ever. Jesus never had a chance.

It is the will of God that you murder anyone who picks up a stick on a Saturday:

Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and they put him in custody, because it had not been declared what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Numbers 15:32-36

Please explain how one can follow these orders of a God that punishes mortals in such a manner. If the man wasn't allowed to work couldn't he just be punished with a spanking instead! Were the people suppose to freeze to death because they couldn't use wood that day? Maybe he needed it to start a small fire to roast a duck! Come on folks such a punishment as death. Moses....you surely had a odd way of punishment. Through fear you can control minds. That he surely did at that moment after he killed the man with stones although it states in the bible "thou shall not kill". Okay another contradiction right there.

Concerning Genesis 7:4, 17-23

There is a logical conclusion scientists have found without the use of claiming a god or aliens have done it to punish the people. Do a research and you will see!

First off, it's not just "killing" someone. If that was just "killing" someone, quite a few judges in this world should be put to death for killing someone(s). That is a judgment, the only reward for sin is death. These verses are from the old testament/old covenant. In the old covenant we had between man and God, we were judged on Earth for our sins, and again the only reward for sin is death. This man could have gathered sticks on any other day prior to the Sabath. He didn't have to wait till the sabath, he should have been prepared or done without because of his mistake of not gathering prior.

If they would have starved because of not being able to cook their duck, it would have been the man's fault for not gathering wood and being prepared prior to the Sabath.

If they would have froze, it would have again been the man's fault for not being prepared for such a thing and gathering prior to the Sabath.

There is most usually always an "excuse" for breaking a law. You claim these two excuses for this man about God's laws, so should we listen to people's excuses whom have murdered someone on Earth and are now in prison for life and or have been given the death penalty? Maybe this "murderer" found this person he killed sleeping with his spouse, maybe this "murderer" stop this person whom he killed from stealing something, ect ect. Excuses of why one broke a law doesn't justify it, wether it is God's law or man's law, fact is they still broke the law and would have to face the consequence. In this case it is death, for again the only reward for sin is death.

It is not a 'reward.'

The verse says "The wages of sin is death."

The point was the claim that "The Lord" told Moses that the man should be killed. I don't believe that for one second. Moses was a tyrant with delusions that he was talking to God. Those people were crazy and they were violent barbarians. They were not men of God. Moses was obviously insane.

In today's world, if Moses could be here, he would be in lock up in some insane asylum.

These crazies are who the Christians look up to.

Someone claiming they physically saw Jesus or God is and would be delusional yes.

We see Jesus through the spirit if you will. We see Jesus through other people's actions, we see someone being obedient to God's laws, we can say we have seen Jesus, for we seen him through these actions. We see the impact he has had on someone(s), thus seeing him.

So what is sufficient evidence? And why would evidence help prove their existence? I can show you an entire building full of evidence of God and Jesus. There is much evidence not included in the bible at a place called Vatican. The bible is not all that we have. Just the bible is all the information the writers of the bible thought was important. Not all the knowledge we have would be able to fit in a single book. So the only information given to us for easy access was the basis of it all. You want more knowledge "evidence" Visit Vatican and read all you wish.

Wasn't quoting a verse, a reward is an outcome of one's actions.

How do you know the Lord didn't tell Moses? Where you there? Do you know for a fact Jesus wasn't there and told Moses? And if so, how do you know this for a fact? What evidence do you have of such? What do you base your conclusion on?

Seeing these things and calling them "Jesus" is basically dishonest. If you want to say that they represent Jesus then say that. Don't say you saw Jesus or hear Jesus. That is blatantly dishonest and misleading. In short, its a lie.



For me, there is no sufficient evidence or reasoning that would convince me at this stage in my life. I know too much. I am no longer gullible.