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| Topic: Faith versus Fear | |
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Miles wrote: Just do not discount it with out a full understanding deep search and desire to learn what it really says.. Blessings...Miles No one who has a clue of how much time I've dedicated to studying these stories could possible suggest that I don't have a full understanding and undergone a deep search and desire to learn what it really says. I tried very hard to make these stories WORK. My conclusion is that it simply isn't possible. They contain such gross contradictions and outright logical errors that they cannot possible be true. That's my conclusion. I might add that this was also the conclusion of Isaac Newton who also tried extremely hard to make them WORK. We weren't out to destroy the bible. We were out to UNDERSTAND IT! And we both came to the ultimate conclusion that it cannot be made to be consistent no matter how sincerely one tries. The only way to make it "work" is to simply ignore the conflicts, deny them, and just pretend they don't exist. That's the only way to make it work. Abra you and I both have been through this many times. And you have made up your mind and closed it.. you want to believe the fairy tales you do and go ahead.. i have never tried to convert anyone just spoke what I know.. if I am wrong prove to me through any means that has merit and I will change my thoughts because i do not want to nor will I walk blindly following what someone tells me and niether shoul;d anyone else. thats foolish.. Blessings...Miles You say you have an open mind, but it appears rather closed to me, because as soon as anyone challenges you, you seem to dismiss it away. What constitutes a view that has merit to you also may I ask? |
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sadly, both sides do this
christians sometimes say things like this : if you dont want to believe the TRUTH, of if you want to believe the devil,,,etc,, and non christians sometimes say things like this: your God is a loser, your God makes no sense, I dont want to meet your God each side berates whatever 'truth' the other side holds,,,,its not something so surprising in these threads anymore |
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Absolutely.. the Bible calls this the Milk of the word when you 1st come to believe and study and the Meat of the word when you go out on your own and teach others.. no different.. but we all have to 1st learn and then we are responcible for our actions.. It is because I have realized that I am responsible for my own thoughts and actions (my sins as it were..).. that I reject the myth that anyone would have to die for my sins two thousand years ago or that I would allow such a thing to take place. I do not judge you if you believe it is a Myth. Just do not discount it with out a full understanding deep search and desire to learn what it really says.. Blessings...Miles Of course you should not judge me for believing it to be a myth. But the fact that you had to actually say that, indicates that you do judge me. You have made a judgement that I do not have a 'full understanding' and you have judged yourself as superior and more wise than me. You assume that you are right and I am but a lost soul... Then you politely wish me blessings and sign your post, as if to say that you are finished with the conversation. You have made your judgment. I agree with this. This is the issue I have with many in the religious sect. They say they aren't gonna judge you if you don't believe as they do, but then in the same breath say something like: "Just do not discount it with out a full understanding deep search and desire to learn what it really says.." That of course is a judgment, and you will always be wrong to them unless you accept what they believe. If you're not gonna judge someone, then whether they believe as you do or not really shouldn't matter all that much to you, nor should there be any wrong answer. Especially where it cannot be truly proven. If there is a wrong answer to you, then you are making a judgment. You can't not judge and judge at the same time. I have made many challenges in the years on hear to prove what I say is not biblical and most of you will never answer.. i have studied very deeply and try to live my life by it. so if you have a problem with what i say.. Prove me wrong and I will rejoice i have been corrected.. Will you.. Shalom..Miles Even if what you say IS biblical, it does not make right. Your error is in saying that because the book says it you are right, but just because it does, it doesn't mean it's suddenly gospel. We need to use better judgment in what we believe, and why. yes and this is the only time in history that the common man can get on here and easily find how the translaters translated the original and see all the mistakes.. most of the mistakes is how people are taught and they never try to learn themselves. I believe you must Study to Learn for yourself.. thats the only way we truely learn from practice.. or did you start your job and never try to learn it? Shalom...Miles |
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Miles wrote: Just do not discount it with out a full understanding deep search and desire to learn what it really says.. Blessings...Miles No one who has a clue of how much time I've dedicated to studying these stories could possible suggest that I don't have a full understanding and undergone a deep search and desire to learn what it really says. I tried very hard to make these stories WORK. My conclusion is that it simply isn't possible. They contain such gross contradictions and outright logical errors that they cannot possible be true. That's my conclusion. I might add that this was also the conclusion of Isaac Newton who also tried extremely hard to make them WORK. We weren't out to destroy the bible. We were out to UNDERSTAND IT! And we both came to the ultimate conclusion that it cannot be made to be consistent no matter how sincerely one tries. The only way to make it "work" is to simply ignore the conflicts, deny them, and just pretend they don't exist. That's the only way to make it work. Abra you and I both have been through this many times. And you have made up your mind and closed it.. you want to believe the fairy tales you do and go ahead.. i have never tried to convert anyone just spoke what I know.. if I am wrong prove to me through any means that has merit and I will change my thoughts because i do not want to nor will I walk blindly following what someone tells me and niether shoul;d anyone else. thats foolish.. Blessings...Miles You say you have an open mind, but it appears rather closed to me, because as soon as anyone challenges you, you seem to dismiss it away. What constitutes a view that has merit to you also may I ask? Reference books.. original languages.. the Englishmans concordance is one of the Best tools thier is and most have never heards of it.. Blessings..Miles |
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show me Abra where the Cathers believed the OT was wriiten by satan.. I thinks thats what Abra Thinks  Blessings...Miles I confess that I read that on an Internet site. I don't know if there is any truth to that or not. In fact, I also confess that I read quite a few different accounts of what the Cathers actually might have believed. I don't think anyone really knows for sure. The only thing that all these accounts of the Cathers have in common is that the Christian Pope ordered his armies to mass murder them because the views of the Cathers didn't match up with his view of what Christianity should be. Sounds pretty typical of Christian behavior back in those days. Actually I'm not concerned with what some obscure religious sect might have actually believed. Clearly they didn't agree with the Christian view or the Christians wouldn't have mass murdered them. |
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Here is an example of how easy it is to search for meanings if you really want to but u must really want to as in anything you desire to learn to the best that u can. In the Strong concordance which most people who study use it only says what a word means and its root words.. not where the actual Hebrew or Greek word was used.. it tells u where the english word was used. The Englishman tells u everywhere the Hebrew or Greek word was used and what it was translated to. Example. the word for Passover in t5he NT is Pasha.. It is translated 27 times as Passover and 1 time as Easter. Passover is a command that u do.. not something that u have to translate its clear.. Easter was dilibertely put in thier to do away with the Passover IMO.. why else would they translate it Easter? ..Blessings..Miles |
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and non christians sometimes say things like this: your God is a loser, your God makes no sense, I dont want to meet your God I say things like this because as far as I can see this is precisely what the Bible states. According to the Bible the biblical God 'loses' the vast majority of souls that he creates. He had to kill off the entire human race save for Noah's family during the Great Flood. He supposedly "lost" the Canaanites, and the Egyptians. And then the New Testament has Jesus saying that the path is straight and the gate is narrow and only FEW will make it into the kingdom of God. Well, that requires that the VAST MAJORITY end up being "lost" souls. So the story itself is a story about a creator who loses the vast majority of the souls that he creates. From my point of view that's a "Loser Creator" or a "Loser God". That's just what the story itself is demanding. I didn't write the story! It's a story of a creator who "loses" the vast majority of souls that he creates. That's what the story itself is claiming to be the TRUTH. Can you show where I'm wrong? If you can, I'll be glad to take another look! 
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Good example of how the Bible has been rewritten and distorted miles.
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show me Abra where the Cathers believed the OT was wriiten by satan.. I thinks thats what Abra Thinks Blessings...Miles I confess that I read that on an Internet site. I don't know if there is any truth to that or not. In fact, I also confess that I read quite a few different accounts of what the Cathers actually might have believed. I don't think anyone really knows for sure. The only thing that all these accounts of the Cathers have in common is that the Christian Pope ordered his armies to mass murder them because the views of the Cathers didn't match up with his view of what Christianity should be. Sounds pretty typical of Christian behavior back in those days. Actually I'm not concerned with what some obscure religious sect might have actually believed. Clearly they didn't agree with the Christian view or the Christians wouldn't have mass murdered them. well 1 thing we agree on thier Abra.. The Cathilic church Murdered the Cathers.. But if the Cathers were trying to do right lets say Murder is wrong then standing up to the {Pope was right.. Blessings...Miles |
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well 1 thing we agree on thier Abra.. The Cathilic church Murdered the Cathers.. But if the Cathers were trying to do right lets say Murder is wrong then standing up to the {Pope was right.. Blessings...Miles Is there anywhere in these cannon of stories called "The Bible" where God supposedly says that one man shall be appointed as the Pope through which God will continue to speak to us? Can you show me where any such thing is suggested in the biblical cannon? If not, then all that "standing up to the Pope" ultimately means is that the Cathers were simply telling the Pope where he can shove his personal opinions.  Well, even that's kind of rude. I confess. But seriously, why should the rejection of someone else's views be considered "Standing up to them" unless that other person is already behaving so arrogantly as to try to enforce their views onto you? What right did the Pope have to try to enforce his personal views of God onto anyone else in the first place? Does the Bible predict or demand that we follow any "Pope". If so, then why aren't all Christians worshiping the Pope as the "Voice of God". If not, then on what authority is the Pope attempting to enforce his personal views onto others? |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 03/19/11 02:25 PM
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and non christians sometimes say things like this: your God is a loser, your God makes no sense, I dont want to meet your God I say things like this because as far as I can see this is precisely what the Bible states. According to the Bible the biblical God 'loses' the vast majority of souls that he creates. He had to kill off the entire human race save for Noah's family during the Great Flood. He supposedly "lost" the Canaanites, and the Egyptians. And then the New Testament has Jesus saying that the path is straight and the gate is narrow and only FEW will make it into the kingdom of God. Well, that requires that the VAST MAJORITY end up being "lost" souls. So the story itself is a story about a creator who loses the vast majority of the souls that he creates. From my point of view that's a "Loser Creator" or a "Loser God". That's just what the story itself is demanding. I didn't write the story! It's a story of a creator who "loses" the vast majority of souls that he creates. That's what the story itself is claiming to be the TRUTH. Can you show where I'm wrong? If you can, I'll be glad to take another look! yes, context means quite a bit in this context , you have explained a different meaning to loser than what is commonly assumed,,,, as well as interpreting the terms reference(as in God loses souls as the interpretation of a lost soul, whereas my interpretation is people paying the price with their soul, like a poker game, and thus LOSING it) in a different manner than christians who happen to think like me just as those on the television show the BIGGEST LOSER are clear in their meaning,, it helps when we are clearer in ours,,, |
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Yes, God lost Lucifer who was once one of his right hand angels. God also apparently lost a third of the angelic army.
Now I wonder... if Lucifer was once God's supporter or angel.. then God and Lucifer can't be that much different. You don't hang with people as best buds and be total opposites. Lucifer apparently wanted God's job.. according the the Bible. But according to other sources, all Lucifer did was challenge the actual existence of God to Michael. No one had actually ever seen God, even in heaven. Lucifer accused Michael of pretending to work for God as his first in charge and that God did not actually exist. There was a fight, and Michael won. A third of the angels sided with Lucifer. |
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Edited by
Milesoftheusa
on
Sat 03/19/11 03:50 PM
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well 1 thing we agree on thier Abra.. The Cathilic church Murdered the Cathers.. But if the Cathers were trying to do right lets say Murder is wrong then standing up to the {Pope was right.. Blessings...Miles Is there anywhere in these cannon of stories called "The Bible" where God supposedly says that one man shall be appointed as the Pope through which God will continue to speak to us? Can you show me where any such thing is suggested in the biblical cannon? If not, then all that "standing up to the Pope" ultimately means is that the Cathers were simply telling the Pope where he can shove his personal opinions. Well, even that's kind of rude. I confess. But seriously, why should the rejection of someone else's views be considered "Standing up to them" unless that other person is already behaving so arrogantly as to try to enforce their views onto you? What right did the Pope have to try to enforce his personal views of God onto anyone else in the first place? Does the Bible predict or demand that we follow any "Pope". If so, then why aren't all Christians worshiping the Pope as the "Voice of God". If not, then on what authority is the Pope attempting to enforce his personal views onto others? Nope.. its nowhere to be found.. if you really look at all the symbology with the Pope with the fish head his staff the robes they where its not from the bible.. you can even see where St peters church is built on top of a Mithra Temple with the symbols still there.. It goes really deep and most is not found in a good light in the bible.. Blessings..Miles Abra if you are interested in reading alot of material about where all this symbolism comes from you can check out this site.. this guy has written books about it and studied it for a very long time.. Shalom..Miles http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com/ |
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Yes, God lost Lucifer who was once one of his right hand angels. God also apparently lost a third of the angelic army. Now I wonder... if Lucifer was once God's supporter or angel.. then God and Lucifer can't be that much different. You don't hang with people as best buds and be total opposites. Lucifer apparently wanted God's job.. according the the Bible. But according to other sources, all Lucifer did was challenge the actual existence of God to Michael. No one had actually ever seen God, even in heaven. Lucifer accused Michael of pretending to work for God as his first in charge and that God did not actually exist. There was a fight, and Michael won. A third of the angels sided with Lucifer. my source is the bible, stating lucifer was cast out due to his intentions to be God |
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Yes, God lost Lucifer who was once one of his right hand angels. God also apparently lost a third of the angelic army. Now I wonder... if Lucifer was once God's supporter or angel.. then God and Lucifer can't be that much different. You don't hang with people as best buds and be total opposites. Lucifer apparently wanted God's job.. according the the Bible. But according to other sources, all Lucifer did was challenge the actual existence of God to Michael. No one had actually ever seen God, even in heaven. Lucifer accused Michael of pretending to work for God as his first in charge and that God did not actually exist. There was a fight, and Michael won. A third of the angels sided with Lucifer. my source is the bible, stating lucifer was cast out due to his intentions to be God The source I mentioned above is the Urantia book. It can be read at http://www.urantia.org |
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These thirty-one papers (Part I, The Central and Superuniverses)* depicting the nature of Deity, the reality of Paradise, the organization and working of the central and superuniverses, the personalities of the grand universe, and the high destiny of evolutionary mortals, were sponsored, formulated, and put into English by a high commission consisting of twenty-four Orvonton administrators acting in accordance with a mandate issued by the Ancients of Days of Uversa directing that we should do this on Urantia, 606 of Satania, in Norlatiadek of Nebadon, in the year A.D. 1934. (354.8) 31:10.22
perhaps,. for entertainment I might browse it, but I will pass on accepting it as authority,,, |
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These thirty-one papers (Part I, The Central and Superuniverses)* depicting the nature of Deity, the reality of Paradise, the organization and working of the central and superuniverses, the personalities of the grand universe, and the high destiny of evolutionary mortals, were sponsored, formulated, and put into English by a high commission consisting of twenty-four Orvonton administrators acting in accordance with a mandate issued by the Ancients of Days of Uversa directing that we should do this on Urantia, 606 of Satania, in Norlatiadek of Nebadon, in the year A.D. 1934. (354.8) 31:10.22 perhaps,. for entertainment I might browse it, but I will pass on accepting it as authority,,, Really I don't think ANY book should be accepted as a sole authority of truth, cause no one book can contain all of God's truth in it, and surely man has added lies and falsifications to suit their own needs as well along the way. |
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To me, the Bible is the greatest book ever written. It is a handbook on how to live your life. What I do is read a piece of scripture, and read it, and read it, until it talks back to me. Until the message in those words resonates within me. Here is an example: What is the opposite of faith? Fear. A person cannot have both faith and fear. So, if you have faith, you cannot have fear. And, if you have fear, you do not have faith. To lose your fear, you simply need to get faith. In fact, fear is faith in the negative. You believe that something will go wrong, and, sooner or later, it will. Faith is believing in the positive. You believe that something will go right, and sooner or later, it will. If you read the Bible, you hear, time and time again, Jesus saying,” Do not be afraid. Have faith.” That is because Jesus knew that a person who is filled with fear has no room for faith. So, first, you make a conscious decision to eliminate fear in your life. Then, in the pit that remains, you fill it with faith. Unfortunately, today, people have turned from faith, and if a person turns from faith, there is nothing left, but fear. To reiterate, a person either has faith or fear. There is no other option. And so, people reek of fear. They are afraid. Afraid of losing their jobs. Afraid to take risks. Afraid to do anything that makes them extraordinary, and so, instead, they amble through life, being all-too ordinary, until they die. If that’s you, you can stop this. Simply make the choice to kill your fears. Just as a gardener uproots weeds, fear is a weed that chokes your heart and prevents you from being who you are meant to be. Eliminate your fears, and you begin your walk to being extraordinary. There were some very imaginative authors in the bible stories granted. But faith is the result of fear. If people had never had a fear of what they did not know which included why people die and what happens in death there would probably be no religions at all ever. There would be no need unless you wanted to control people without them knowing it. In that case if you make them fear the invisible guy in the sky they will follow what you tell them is his wishes. Makes you think about what they old guys of old really thought about huh? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 03/19/11 08:32 PM
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These thirty-one papers (Part I, The Central and Superuniverses)* depicting the nature of Deity, the reality of Paradise, the organization and working of the central and superuniverses, the personalities of the grand universe, and the high destiny of evolutionary mortals, were sponsored, formulated, and put into English by a high commission consisting of twenty-four Orvonton administrators acting in accordance with a mandate issued by the Ancients of Days of Uversa directing that we should do this on Urantia, 606 of Satania, in Norlatiadek of Nebadon, in the year A.D. 1934. (354.8) 31:10.22 perhaps,. for entertainment I might browse it, but I will pass on accepting it as authority,,, Really I don't think ANY book should be accepted as a sole authority of truth, cause no one book can contain all of God's truth in it, and surely man has added lies and falsifications to suit their own needs as well along the way. I am not asking anyone to accept anything as an authority. My point is that there are some other amazing inspired writings besides the Bible. You can accept any authority you want. I don't accept any book as an authority. If I were to keep offering the Urantia book to you (msharmony) or anyone, as proof of Jesus, God, or anything, why on earth would I expect you to accept it as authority even if I believed it, which I don't. I do think it is an incredible account or story of the life of Jesus, if Jesus ever existed at all. It actually makes a lot more sense than the Bible, and it is very well written. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Sat 03/19/11 09:06 PM
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To me, the Bible is the greatest book ever written. It is a handbook on how to live your life. What I do is read a piece of scripture, and read it, and read it, until it talks back to me. Until the message in those words resonates within me. Here is an example: What is the opposite of faith? Fear. A person cannot have both faith and fear. So, if you have faith, you cannot have fear. And, if you have fear, you do not have faith. To lose your fear, you simply need to get faith. In fact, fear is faith in the negative. You believe that something will go wrong, and, sooner or later, it will. Faith is believing in the positive. You believe that something will go right, and sooner or later, it will. If you read the Bible, you hear, time and time again, Jesus saying,” Do not be afraid. Have faith.” That is because Jesus knew that a person who is filled with fear has no room for faith. So, first, you make a conscious decision to eliminate fear in your life. Then, in the pit that remains, you fill it with faith. Unfortunately, today, people have turned from faith, and if a person turns from faith, there is nothing left, but fear. To reiterate, a person either has faith or fear. There is no other option. And so, people reek of fear. They are afraid. Afraid of losing their jobs. Afraid to take risks. Afraid to do anything that makes them extraordinary, and so, instead, they amble through life, being all-too ordinary, until they die. If that’s you, you can stop this. Simply make the choice to kill your fears. Just as a gardener uproots weeds, fear is a weed that chokes your heart and prevents you from being who you are meant to be. Eliminate your fears, and you begin your walk to being extraordinary. There were some very imaginative authors in the bible stories granted. But faith is the result of fear. If people had never had a fear of what they did not know which included why people die and what happens in death there would probably be no religions at all ever. There would be no need unless you wanted to control people without them knowing it. In that case if you make them fear the invisible guy in the sky they will follow what you tell them is his wishes. Makes you think about what they old guys of old really thought about huh? Not necessarily true. I know from personal experience that the "religion" has nothing to do with finding God. I found God at an early age. Not cause of my parents, not cause of my friends, not cause of my surroundings. I was touched deeply by God our father without any other outside sources. God opened my eyes. God asked me to read the bible to learn more of what I could do to be obedient. But the bible itself was not the source of this journey. So I read some of the bible. Not out of fear, not out of worry, not out of anything of such. I read the bible out of obedience to what I was called to do. I did it to find more answers to the many questions that linger around in this world. |
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