That's ok, I don't believe there is evidence the world is round, I don't believe there is evidence Abraham Lincon was a president, I don't believe there is evidence that Adolf Hitler did cruel things to the Germans.

Cowboy then, you have a very serious problem. I will pray for you to see the light some day before its too late.

In a court of law the 'evidence' as submitted in the form of the bible would not even be allowed consideration.

It is the word of a third party that a first party said or did something...

i.e. hearsay.

I have no problems, my burdens have been lifted.

Who's talking about court and who gives a flying woohoo what a court would do. This isn't court my friend, this is the real world. And not exactly true.

Heck they do the same thing in courts. Everyone word people say in court is documented. So if they go to use this document for future reference, with your way of thinking it would be hearsay cause some 3rd party is whom wrote it down.

More specific
------------

You're in court, you say that you did not seen this woman that night. That would be documented for future reference. Then later on you say you did see that woman. With your way of thinking they could NOT use the previous recording of you saying you did not see her, for it would be hearsay in your eyes. Would be coming from a third party. Get real dude, quit coming up with excuses.

I hope you don't ever plan on being a lawyer.

Wow...

Bit testy tonight. (This small one is not worth your anger... not to mention it being not smart to bandy with this one in anger... anger is the mind killer).

If you submitted a document to court that was written by a third party 300 YEARS after the first party had died...

It would be dismissed as a matter of fraud.

period.

get real yourself.

By now in your life you must realize that you do not need the book to connect with god.

By now in your life you must have come to understand that it is YOUR LIFE which brings people to the WAY and not the book you quote.

I'd just like to see a flying woohoo.

No one's upset or anything. No you don't need a book to connect with God. You don't need anything but your own will to connect with God. The bible is merely the history of our God, future prophecies, and the laws that bind us. But as "knowing" God, you need no book. God isn't in the book.

Only if one could prove it to be fraud.

Just show me your flying woohoo.

Of course not, according to YOU, because you claim that there is no evidence for anything at all.

The problem with that is that all you're telling us is that there is every bit as much reason to believe in Santa Claus, Zeus, Thor, the Tooth Fairy, or Jesus.

According to you, there is precisely the very same evidence for all of these things.

So all you've done is argue yourself into a corner where you have no choice but to conceded that there is no more reason to believe the things you believe than there is to believe in anything else.

Like Jeanniebean says, I sure hope you're not planning on becoming a lawyer.

All you'll ever do is convince the jury that they have no more reason to believe you than they have for believing what the other guy has to say.



You're not going to get very far in any sort of a debate using that approach.

So all you're telling us is that our beliefs have precisely the very same merit as your beliefs. And your beliefs have absolutely no more merit than our beliefs, and you even believe that entirely on "faith".



That truly funny when you stop and think about it.

But evidently that's the crux of your argument. Nothing has any more merit than anything else.

That's pretty desperate way of trying to "justify" your beliefs isn't it? Just reduce everything to nothing more than an unjustified guess in order to place your beliefs on the same footing with everything else.

What's the point of that?

All you're basically telling us it that you have no good reasons to believe in what you believe.

I want to see that flying woohoo.

Faith versus Fear


"The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever."

But what is it that these people fear?

Evil?

Death?

The boogieman?

That's the part I don't get.

What is it that they are afraid of that the feel such a dire need to have some sort of "God" on their "side".

On their "side" of what?

The only threat of true "death" comes from this very God. Failure to believe in him, and HE will be the one to make sure that you die and are not granted his "gift" of eternal life.

The fear can only be of "death" itself.

So the only way that "Faith versus Fear" makes any sense is if a person fears death in the first place.

Or if they fear that some evil boogieman is out to get them.

If they are "comforted" by the thought that some "Lord" will protect them from "evil" and grant them everlasting life, saving them from his very own threat of condemning them to everlasting punishment, then more power to them.

I truly don't want to be the one to get in the way of anyone's "faith" of such things.

Where this whole belief system becomes a BURDEN on society in general is when people start acting like everyone must have "Faith" or else being in grave FEAR!

And the really sad, and even ultimately sick, part, is that if a person doesn't naturally fear death and evil, then these religious people start acting like God himself is going to really be peeved about that.

Forget about merely fearing "death" and the "boogieman", now these people are claiming the GOD HIMSELF will cast you into everlasting punishment if you don't cower down and worship him.

This is where the religion just went haywire.

It went from being a mere hope and comfort for people who can't handle the thought of death and are afraid of boogieman to being a religion that claims that the GOD HIMSELF will BECOME the boogieman if you don't appease HIS DEMANDS!

What?

How did it get from God being a "comfort", to God actually becoming the THREAT himself?

Where did this religion get derailed?

How much do you trust yourself?

Thou art God.

Truly.

It's always a pleasure to read your divine posts.

Nothing to fear but fear itself
for if the self were fearless
fear would fade away

Not in any corner and there may not be any reason to believe to YOU, that is what you wish to put FAITH in. Christianity is about FAITH. Faith is the greatest display of love. In a relationship, if you display you have no faith in the relationship, more then likely it will end. Just a fine example of how powerful and how great FAITH is. Faith is what YOU wish to be true. You will reside in what YOU put FAITH into. You put faith in there is no God and or not the "Christian" God, you will reside with this "god" when you pass away from this earth. It's your choice my friend, your choice of where you wish to reside after you pass away on this earth.

I have no problem with "faith" Cowboy.

But why would I even want to place my "faith" in a demonic fable of a God who hates people so much that if they refuse to place their "faith" in HIM, he will cast them into a state of everlasting punishment.

I see no reason at all to place my "faith" in such a demon.

This is the same God who condoned having his only begotten son brutally crucified on a pole to appease himself so that he can "forgive" people of their disobedience to him?

Why would I want to place "faith" in the idea that my creator could be so inept as to not be able to come up with a better way to offer salvation to the objects of his creation?

If the religion is entire "faith-based" as you demand that it must be, then I see absolutely no reason to waste any "faith" on it at all.

On the contrary, there are far better spiritual pictures that are much more worthy of pure "faith", IMHO.

Wicca, and their archetypes of a Moon Goddess and Sun God are actually filled with beauty, intelligence and wisdom. There's nothing negative in that picture of God at all. No one threatening to cast anyone in to a place of hellish damnation and punishment if they simply refuse to believe. No threats at all of any kind, and no need to accept having anyone nailed to any poles on your behalf either.

The Faery Teachings of Norther Europe are also quite positive and optimistic pictures that display much wisdom, intelligence and love. No demonic threats being made there either, nor do they require that you condone having anyone nailed to any poles to pay for you "sins".

I mention the above two spiritual pictures because they contain a lot of the same elements as the religion you seem to find attractive.

They too believe in spirits with wings. You believe in angels with bird-like wings, they believe in faeries with butterfly-like wings. Not much difference there really.

They also allow for demons and ogres and such similar to your religion as well. Did you know that Jesus cast seven demons out of poor Mary Madelene?

Of course, if you're interested in something far less "mythological" and far more intellectually abstract you might want to consider some of the Eastern Mystical Views.

Again there's no hateful jealous God lusting to cast you into a hellish state of eternal punishment if you fail to believe. The only "demons" in this spiritual pictures are the ones that you yourself CREATE. In fact, this spiritual picture ultimately recognizes you as the CREATOR, so "god" will only hate you as much as you hate yourself. Love yourself and "god" will love you.

Of course, they explain the difference between your TRUE SELF and the illusion of your EGO, so you don't want to get those two things confused! So it's best to study this spiritual philosophy until you know thyself, only then can you truly know "god".

That picture, for me, is the most worthy of "faith". There is nothing negative in this picture unless YOU put it in yourself.

It's PURE LOVE, unless YOU make it otherwise.

Talk about free will and choosing your destiny. No religion on Earth understands those concepts better than the Eastern Mystics.

~~~~

In the meantime you're selling a God who is chomping at the bit to hate everyone who refuses to place their "faith" in him?

Well, you're not going to inspire me to place my "faith" in that picture. That picture is a picture of a God who coerces people into pretending that they "love" him in an effort to avoid his hateful selfish wrath.

In all honest Cowboy, I'd rather atheism were true than that picture.

In other words, I'd rather place my "faith" in pure atheism, then to place my "faith" in the picture of God that you're attempting to convince me to buy into.

I see not reason whatsoever to place my "faith" in that picture.

On the contrary, I would much rather place my "faith" in the idea that it's totally false. Why would I want to believe in a nightmare on pure "faith"?

You've got to be kidding me?

This is not faith. Faith is acceptance of WHAT IS, even if you don't understand it.

I have faith in the Law.
I have faith in myself.
I am that I am.



God is God.
You cannot believe or disbelieve in God if you don't know what It is.