I do not judge you if you believe it is a Myth. Just do not discount it with out a full understanding deep search and desire to learn what it really says.. Blessings...Miles

Abra,

Let me tell you how I interpret those contradictions.

John.5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


This tells me that the father.. a conscious entity or manifestation of the Godhead, does not personally make these judgments. (He's too busy for that.)

But... he hath committed all judgment unto the Son.

The "son" represents humanity itself. It represents "God made flesh which is humanity."

We do judge ourselves, especially as we grow in wisdom, but we are also judged via the law of cause and effect which does not play favorites. We are condemned by the effects of our own actions. There is no personal evaluation or judgement, only the impersonal law.

Of course you should not judge me for believing it to be a myth. But the fact that you had to actually say that, indicates that you do judge me. You have made a judgement that I do not have a 'full understanding' and you have judged yourself as superior and more wise than me. You assume that you are right and I am but a lost soul...

Then you politely wish me blessings and sign your post, as if to say that you are finished with the conversation.

You have made your judgment.

I totally agree with you on this.

I have a whole series of book on Witchcraft written by Christopher Penczak. There is no doubt that his writings are indeed inspired. He is a very inspired author. Everything he teaches in his books is highly moral and ethical, he never even remotely suggests that anyone should do anything 'evil' or anything close to it. On the contrary he renounces all evil.

So there's absolutely no reason to believe that his writings could have been inspired by an 'evil' source. He renounces evil and totally focuses on revering God.

So just as Jesus proclaimed when the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Satan Jesus replied saying, "If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand?"

Well, the very same thing applies to Christopher Penczak's books. It would be nonsense to suggest that Satan is behind Penczak's writings, because Penczak renounces evil and reveres God.

Therefore to accuse Penczak of working for Satan would be the same as accusing Jesus, because, as Jesus himself is quoted as having said, "If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand?"

So Christians can't claim that books that renounce evil and revere God and are the inspired work of Satan, because this violates the very wisdom of their Jesus.

So they really have no choice but to acknowledge that good works can only come from God. And thus this verifies that Christopher Penczak's books are indeed the inspired works of God.

Don't you just love logic?

Abra,

I have used that same logic with zealots.. but you can't used logic with the illogical.

They will quote from the Bible something about how "Satan" can come in the form of a beautiful angel of light... something good. And that Satan can fool you into thinking that he is God.

I tell them, Yes, I know. That is what he did to you.

I completely agree with you 100% Jeannie!

That would indeed be the Eastern Mystical view of things. In fact that's precisely how I take that verse too in terms of viewing Jesus as a Mahayana Buddhist.

When Jesus speaks of the "son" he's speaking of all of us.

But that's not how the "Christians" view these things. They take the reference to the "son" as meaning Jesus ONLY. Because they view Jesus as being the "ONLY" begotten son of God. So all judgment as been given to HIM and HIM ALONE.

So I often try to speak to the Christians based on their own beliefs, and try to show why those beliefs are in gross contradictions.

Take away the Christian view and replace it with an understanding of the views of Eastern Mysticism (or pantheism) and most of these contradictions and absurdities totally disappear.

So, yes, I have absolutely no problem with most of what has been attributed to Jesus in terms of the pantheistic view.

It's only when we try to make sense of these things in terms of the Christian view that they become huge paradoxes and contradictions.

But, YES, all judgment has been given to the "son" (i.e. US)

And this also why Jesus said:

Matt.7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

This is because however we choose to perceive life (i.e. whatever we judge life to be), is how we will react to it, and thus how we will ACT to manifest it.

So our judgments are directly linked to our karma (our actions) and thus are necessarily directly linked to how we manifest our lives.

Yep, yep, yep, yep, I agree!

I agree with this. This is the issue I have with many in the religious sect. They say they aren't gonna judge you if you don't believe as they do, but then in the same breath say something like: "Just do not discount it with out a full understanding deep search and desire to learn what it really says.."

That of course is a judgment, and you will always be wrong to them unless you accept what they believe. If you're not gonna judge someone, then whether they believe as you do or not really shouldn't matter all that much to you, nor should there be any wrong answer. Especially where it cannot be truly proven.

If there is a wrong answer to you, then you are making a judgment. You can't not judge and judge at the same time.

Truly.

The Cathers believed that Satan wrote the entire Old Testament.

They saw the stories of Jesus as purely metaphorical. In other words, they didn't actually believe that Jesus ever physically existed, but rather that the story of Jesus itself was indeed a divinely inspired tale to dispel the previous lies that Satan had created in the Old Testament.

The Christians mass murdered the Cathers for their views.

But the moral of the story there suggests that it was indeed the Christians who were fooled by Satan, because murdering the Cathers was an evil thing to do!

So the proof is in the pudding.

No one who has a clue of how much time I've dedicated to studying these stories could possible suggest that I don't have a full understanding and undergone a deep search and desire to learn what it really says.

I tried very hard to make these stories WORK. My conclusion is that it simply isn't possible. They contain such gross contradictions and outright logical errors that they cannot possible be true.

That's my conclusion.

I might add that this was also the conclusion of Isaac Newton who also tried extremely hard to make them WORK.

We weren't out to destroy the bible. We were out to UNDERSTAND IT!

And we both came to the ultimate conclusion that it cannot be made to be consistent no matter how sincerely one tries.

The only way to make it "work" is to simply ignore the conflicts, deny them, and just pretend they don't exist.

That's the only way to make it work.

Then i can say the same thing that you are judging me. huh..u have been on here a long time and i know you know i am not like that. if you don't then i guess u do not understand my posts..Blessings..Miles

If you examine the history of the Christian religion you will find that murdering the people who did not agree with their view was an extremely common practice.

Other religions also practiced the same thing. They often would say: "Convert or die" but all too often they just killed them with the belief that they were evil and that they would not truly convert, hence must be destroyed.

I find it amazing that the religions have even survived given their horrible bloody past. Do people not know the history of their own religions? Do people feel that their one God has the right to kill anyone? If God is all powerful, if he wanted a bunch of people dead, then could he not simply strike them down with heart attacks or some other way? Of course he could.

But what does he do? He enlists his loyal followers to pick up their swords and lop off the heads of babies and their mothers without mercy.

And this, my friends, is unreasonable. This is not God, this is evil. If God exists, and if Satan exists, then it is Satan who has convinced these people that he is God.

Myself, I blame those damn draconian aliens who want to take over the world.

we all judge,,,,

show me Abra where the Cathers believed the OT was wriiten by satan.. I thinks thats what Abra Thinks Blessings...Miles

I have made many challenges in the years on hear to prove what I say is not biblical and most of you will never answer.. i have studied very deeply and try to live my life by it. so if you have a problem with what i say.. Prove me wrong and I will rejoice i have been corrected.. Will you.. Shalom..Miles

Is it not different though to say "I believe you are incorrect" vs. "I know you are"?

Even if what you say IS biblical, it does not make right. Your error is in saying that because the book says it you are right, but just because it does, it doesn't mean it's suddenly gospel. We need to use better judgment in what we believe, and why.

Well, not only that but if we're going to talk about a truly deep search let's not just look at the bible but instead let's exam all world religions and spiritual philosophies and mythologies.

When I do that, I see where the Old Testament isn't all that much different from the fables of Zeus, right down to the god being appeased by blood sacrifices.

Also, with this far deeper understanding of other spiritual philosophies I can see where it makes far more sense to recognize that Jesus was most likely a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva who actually taught against the teachings of Torah (or Old Testament) and was trying to get people to see that their very thoughts are what create their reality.

So I'm quite happy that my understanding of these spiritual ideas is about as deep as it can be using solely the knowledge of mankind.

The Old Testament is most likely just another myth like Zeus.

Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva.

And the New Testament was either a gross misunderstanding of Jesus, or an outright attempt to use the rumors of him to try to prop up the very dogma that Jesus himself clearly did not even agree with.

Those are my conclusions after having studied these things for over a half a century.

Abra you and I both have been through this many times. And you have made up your mind and closed it.. you want to believe the fairy tales you do and go ahead.. i have never tried to convert anyone just spoke what I know.. if I am wrong prove to me through any means that has merit and I will change my thoughts because i do not want to nor will I walk blindly following what someone tells me and niether shoul;d anyone else. thats foolish.. Blessings...Miles

I have never actually claimed to anyone that I don't make judgments. I do. I have been given that freedom. But my post here was an evaluation of your reply. You can view that as a judgment if you wish. I think that honest communication is sometimes necessary, however harsh.

You have your beliefs and you don't intend to budge or venture into any other ideas or possibilities, therefore there will always come a point or boundary where you will not cross -- as far as your thinking is concerned. You go as far as you can, and when you see the dead end, you retreat into your bubble of belief. That is how I see it.

But that is okay with me. However, I try to be candid about what I see because my goal is to receive truth and that includes, seeing truth and being truthful about what I see.

That is not to say that I think I am right. I search for places where I can be convinced otherwise. When a person retreats from discussion, he has gone as far as he is going to go and has no more to offer me.

I have also retreated from discussions when I see a person who is not willing to consider my point of view, or elaborate on his or her own point of view.

only if you dont know


believe, strongly believe, know

how much do we truly KNOW, yet we say we know, because we have put faith in what someone else claims to know from a book we have received the information from,,,,

I know christopher columbus came to america,, or do I


was I there, did I see it, am I Trusting what I have read about Christopher columbus and am I trusting that the papers and logs attributed to him are REALLY from him?


,,,,to this I say, I know my father was my father(speaking in worldly terms)

I never had a dna test done to prove it, but I know it because of the faith I have in my mother.

someone else can tell me they know he is not, and it might make me wonder what 'knowledge' they acquired that I Did not, but unless they showed me the DNA test disproving his paternity(and even then, I might question the authenticity or origin of the document), my knowledge would not falter or change nor would I be offended.


If someone knows santa claus is real. That only affects their life really. And me knowing he isnt doesnt make me offended with them.

IF they belittle me or berate me for what I know, it will most likely come off to me as their problem/insecurity. .. and that is a judgment,, but so be it.