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| Topic: Faith versus Fear | |
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So if you had an order from God to slaughter women and children, I take it that you would obey that order? What I object to is God ordering people to kill and/or murder. As you said, dead is dead. My moral compass is in place. I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. Funny thing is I used to believe in the whole Bush comment long ago lol, my how times change. Another example of the whole murder thing in the Bible is the great flood as well. You cannot tell me it is just to wipe out an entire population like that, particularly innocent little children. What was all so bad about the flood? Inocent children = Went straight to heaven. Didn't have to deal with physical or emotional pain. Didn't have to deal with diseases, didn't have to deal with anything foul. The only existence they knew was pretty much in the paradise of heaven. Again what is so foul about that? So they had to deal with a bit of time while they drown. That little time, give it most 10 hours is a very small amount of time to eternity. So by your logic, it'd be perfectly fine for me to smother an infant child just because they'd go to Heaven? Sure they'd suffer a while before they died, but it doesn't matter right? Yes, and they are mostly against abortion. It don't make much sense does it? No it doesn't. Murder is murder I don't care if "God" is doing it or someone else is. Killing and wiping someone out for whatever reason is NOT love. You are thinking with a secular mind. The only way to "DIE" is to not receive the gift of eternal life in the paradise of our father. When one passes away on earth, that is not God killing anyone or anything, for they have no died just yet. |
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I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. Or bush lied. Claiming that to get the support of the country. The largest organized religion in the USA has always been Christianity. Yes it is dwindling down in this day and age. But nevertheless the USA was/is a Christian country. Only recently in the past 20 years or so has it been God being taken out of it. Pledge of allegiance for example. Of course Bush lied. He only got the support of the insane people who believed his lies. God is NOT being taken out of this country. Christianity may be dwindling that is for sure. Only Christians think that means that God is dwindling because they think they own GOD. They don't. If anything I think our perceptions as to what God is is changing. It's only those who are too prideful to look beyond what they are told that are fighting it. Incidentally too, the fact that these politicians, all corrupt in their own ways, use religion as they do, makes it suspect by default right there. If they are using it, knowing how they like to manipulate and control, it doesn't say much for it. |
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So if you had an order from God to slaughter women and children, I take it that you would obey that order? What I object to is God ordering people to kill and/or murder. As you said, dead is dead. My moral compass is in place. I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. Funny thing is I used to believe in the whole Bush comment long ago lol, my how times change. Another example of the whole murder thing in the Bible is the great flood as well. You cannot tell me it is just to wipe out an entire population like that, particularly innocent little children. What was all so bad about the flood? Inocent children = Went straight to heaven. Didn't have to deal with physical or emotional pain. Didn't have to deal with diseases, didn't have to deal with anything foul. The only existence they knew was pretty much in the paradise of heaven. Again what is so foul about that? So they had to deal with a bit of time while they drown. That little time, give it most 10 hours is a very small amount of time to eternity. So by your logic, it'd be perfectly fine for me to smother an infant child just because they'd go to Heaven? Sure they'd suffer a while before they died, but it doesn't matter right? Yes, and they are mostly against abortion. It don't make much sense does it? No it doesn't. Murder is murder I don't care if "God" is doing it or someone else is. Killing and wiping someone out for whatever reason is NOT love. You are thinking with a secular mind. The only way to "DIE" is to not receive the gift of eternal life in the paradise of our father. When one passes away on earth, that is not God killing anyone or anything, for they have no died just yet. But who is God to say when our lives are to end down here? Does that not interfere with our own free will? Or do we not have it? |
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I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. Or bush lied. Claiming that to get the support of the country. The largest organized religion in the USA has always been Christianity. Yes it is dwindling down in this day and age. But nevertheless the USA was/is a Christian country. Only recently in the past 20 years or so has it been God being taken out of it. Pledge of allegiance for example. Of course Bush lied. He only got the support of the insane people who believed his lies. God is NOT being taken out of this country. Christianity may be dwindling that is for sure. Only Christians think that means that God is dwindling because they think they own GOD. They don't. If anything I think our perceptions as to what God is is changing. It's only those who are too prideful to look beyond what they are told that are fighting it. Incidentally too, the fact that these politicians, all corrupt in their own ways, use religion as they do, makes it suspect by default right there. If they are using it, knowing how they like to manipulate and control, it doesn't say much for it. Christianity in no way can be used, manipulated or anything to support waring. So the politicians claim of such is purely in vein and falls flat on it's face. |
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I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. Or bush lied. Claiming that to get the support of the country. The largest organized religion in the USA has always been Christianity. Yes it is dwindling down in this day and age. But nevertheless the USA was/is a Christian country. Only recently in the past 20 years or so has it been God being taken out of it. Pledge of allegiance for example. Of course Bush lied. He only got the support of the insane people who believed his lies. God is NOT being taken out of this country. Christianity may be dwindling that is for sure. Only Christians think that means that God is dwindling because they think they own GOD. They don't. If anything I think our perceptions as to what God is is changing. It's only those who are too prideful to look beyond what they are told that are fighting it. Incidentally too, the fact that these politicians, all corrupt in their own ways, use religion as they do, makes it suspect by default right there. If they are using it, knowing how they like to manipulate and control, it doesn't say much for it. Christianity in no way can be used, manipulated or anything to support waring. So the politicians claim of such is purely in vein and falls flat on it's face. That's a load of crap, your own book supports war! |
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So if you had an order from God to slaughter women and children, I take it that you would obey that order? What I object to is God ordering people to kill and/or murder. As you said, dead is dead. My moral compass is in place. I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. Funny thing is I used to believe in the whole Bush comment long ago lol, my how times change. Another example of the whole murder thing in the Bible is the great flood as well. You cannot tell me it is just to wipe out an entire population like that, particularly innocent little children. What was all so bad about the flood? Inocent children = Went straight to heaven. Didn't have to deal with physical or emotional pain. Didn't have to deal with diseases, didn't have to deal with anything foul. The only existence they knew was pretty much in the paradise of heaven. Again what is so foul about that? So they had to deal with a bit of time while they drown. That little time, give it most 10 hours is a very small amount of time to eternity. So by your logic, it'd be perfectly fine for me to smother an infant child just because they'd go to Heaven? Sure they'd suffer a while before they died, but it doesn't matter right? Yes, and they are mostly against abortion. It don't make much sense does it? No it doesn't. Murder is murder I don't care if "God" is doing it or someone else is. Killing and wiping someone out for whatever reason is NOT love. You are thinking with a secular mind. The only way to "DIE" is to not receive the gift of eternal life in the paradise of our father. When one passes away on earth, that is not God killing anyone or anything, for they have no died just yet. But who is God to say when our lives are to end down here? Does that not interfere with our own free will? Or do we not have it? When one dies has NOTHING to do with free will. One doesn't "choose" to die when one passes away. Yes people commit suicide, but I'm referring to more of old age, diseases, or other. Free will only consists around an action YOU take. Again dieing isn't an action one takes intentionally unless it is suicide. And God has told us not to do such a thing. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 03/20/11 01:09 PM
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Nobody "owns" God. Christianity is merely the past history of our God and the future events that will take place. Nobody owns God, if anything God owns us. I'm glad you agree. Now tell the rest of the Christians and LET US HAVE OUR GOD. The term Christianity is only given to us cause of people such as you, people with other beliefs. Root word of Christianity = Christ. We are trying to be as much Christ like as we can be to achieve the glory of heaven. Jesus CHRIST was the only begotten child of God and came to fulfill the old covenant and give us a new covenant between man and God. You can have God if you wish, no one is holding him from your grasp. He's out there for anyone and everyone whom wishes to accept Jesus as their lord. For Jesus CHRIST is the only path to our father who art in heaven. I did not, nor did "people like me" give your religion the name of "Christianity." If you are trying to be "Christ like" then stop trying to own God. You can have God if you wish, no one is holding him from your grasp. He's out there for anyone and everyone whom wishes to accept Jesus as their lord. For Jesus CHRIST is the only path to our father who art in heaven. There is the catch... you insistence that I accept some guy named "Jesus" as lord and your claim that Jesus is the only path to our father in heaven. You think you own God. You think the only way is YOUR way. You can't even see that.  |
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I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. Or bush lied. Claiming that to get the support of the country. The largest organized religion in the USA has always been Christianity. Yes it is dwindling down in this day and age. But nevertheless the USA was/is a Christian country. Only recently in the past 20 years or so has it been God being taken out of it. Pledge of allegiance for example. Of course Bush lied. He only got the support of the insane people who believed his lies. God is NOT being taken out of this country. Christianity may be dwindling that is for sure. Only Christians think that means that God is dwindling because they think they own GOD. They don't. If anything I think our perceptions as to what God is is changing. It's only those who are too prideful to look beyond what they are told that are fighting it. Incidentally too, the fact that these politicians, all corrupt in their own ways, use religion as they do, makes it suspect by default right there. If they are using it, knowing how they like to manipulate and control, it doesn't say much for it. Christianity in no way can be used, manipulated or anything to support waring. So the politicians claim of such is purely in vein and falls flat on it's face. That's a load of crap, your own book supports war! The bible in no way supports war. Old testament times yes it did to a degree. But that was with the old covenant, a tooth for a tooth, ect. The new covenant we are to turn the other cheek. This is not done through a war. |
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Nobody "owns" God. Christianity is merely the past history of our God and the future events that will take place. Nobody owns God, if anything God owns us. I'm glad you agree. Now tell the rest of the Christians and LET US HAVE OUR GOD. The term Christianity is only given to us cause of people such as you, people with other beliefs. Root word of Christianity = Christ. We are trying to be as much Christ like as we can be to achieve the glory of heaven. Jesus CHRIST was the only begotten child of God and came to fulfill the old covenant and give us a new covenant between man and God. You can have God if you wish, no one is holding him from your grasp. He's out there for anyone and everyone whom wishes to accept Jesus as their lord. For Jesus CHRIST is the only path to our father who art in heaven. I did not, not did "people like me" give your religion the name of "Christianity." If you are trying to be "Christ like" then stop trying to own God. You can have God if you wish, no one is holding him from your grasp. He's out there for anyone and everyone whom wishes to accept Jesus as their lord. For Jesus CHRIST is the only path to our father who art in heaven. There is the catch... you insistence that I accept some guy named "Jesus" as lord and your claim that Jesus is the only path to our father in heaven. You think you own God. You think the only way is YOUR way. I own nothing. I am merely a servant of the lord. |
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You can have God if you wish, no one is holding him from your grasp. That is what I have been trying to get across to people. I have God. Stop telling me I don't. Subject closed. |
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I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. Or bush lied. Claiming that to get the support of the country. The largest organized religion in the USA has always been Christianity. Yes it is dwindling down in this day and age. But nevertheless the USA was/is a Christian country. Only recently in the past 20 years or so has it been God being taken out of it. Pledge of allegiance for example. Of course Bush lied. He only got the support of the insane people who believed his lies. God is NOT being taken out of this country. Christianity may be dwindling that is for sure. Only Christians think that means that God is dwindling because they think they own GOD. They don't. If anything I think our perceptions as to what God is is changing. It's only those who are too prideful to look beyond what they are told that are fighting it. Incidentally too, the fact that these politicians, all corrupt in their own ways, use religion as they do, makes it suspect by default right there. If they are using it, knowing how they like to manipulate and control, it doesn't say much for it. Christianity in no way can be used, manipulated or anything to support waring. So the politicians claim of such is purely in vein and falls flat on it's face. That's a load of crap, your own book supports war! The bible in no way supports war. Old testament times yes it did to a degree. But that was with the old covenant, a tooth for a tooth, ect. The new covenant we are to turn the other cheek. This is not done through a war. But that's still a part of the Bible, and if God is unchanging, He must support war. Hell even Jesus himself said he came not to bring peace but a sword! |
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I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. Or bush lied. Claiming that to get the support of the country. The largest organized religion in the USA has always been Christianity. Yes it is dwindling down in this day and age. But nevertheless the USA was/is a Christian country. Only recently in the past 20 years or so has it been God being taken out of it. Pledge of allegiance for example. Of course Bush lied. He only got the support of the insane people who believed his lies. God is NOT being taken out of this country. Christianity may be dwindling that is for sure. Only Christians think that means that God is dwindling because they think they own GOD. They don't. If anything I think our perceptions as to what God is is changing. It's only those who are too prideful to look beyond what they are told that are fighting it. Incidentally too, the fact that these politicians, all corrupt in their own ways, use religion as they do, makes it suspect by default right there. If they are using it, knowing how they like to manipulate and control, it doesn't say much for it. Christianity in no way can be used, manipulated or anything to support waring. So the politicians claim of such is purely in vein and falls flat on it's face. That's a load of crap, your own book supports war! The bible in no way supports war. Old testament times yes it did to a degree. But that was with the old covenant, a tooth for a tooth, ect. The new covenant we are to turn the other cheek. This is not done through a war. But that's still a part of the Bible, and if God is unchanging, He must support war. Hell even Jesus himself said he came not to bring peace but a sword! God is unchanging and he's never supported "waring". Yes and Jesus' sword will be the word of God. He's not coming back with literally a "sword" to chop people's heads off or anything. |
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You can have God if you wish, no one is holding him from your grasp. That is what I have been trying to get across to people. I have God. Stop telling me I don't. Subject closed. Never said you didn't have God. God is omnipresent. God is with everyone. |
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You can have God if you wish, no one is holding him from your grasp. That is what I have been trying to get across to people. I have God. Stop telling me I don't. Subject closed. Never said you didn't have God. God is omnipresent. God is with everyone. Great, then quit trying to say your way is the only way. |
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You can have God if you wish, no one is holding him from your grasp. That is what I have been trying to get across to people. I have God. Stop telling me I don't. Subject closed. Never said you didn't have God. God is omnipresent. God is with everyone. Great, then quit trying to say your way is the only way. Never said MY way was the only way. Jesus is the only way to the paradise yes, but nevertheless God is with us all. God will never forsake anyone. |
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You can have God if you wish, no one is holding him from your grasp. That is what I have been trying to get across to people. I have God. Stop telling me I don't. Subject closed. Never said you didn't have God. God is omnipresent. God is with everyone. Great, then quit trying to say your way is the only way. Never said MY way was the only way. Jesus is the only way to the paradise yes, but nevertheless God is with us all. God will never forsake anyone. Way to contradict yourself, you said your way is not the only way, then say Jesus is the only way to paradise. It can't be both. |
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So if you had an order from God to slaughter women and children, I take it that you would obey that order? What I object to is God ordering people to kill and/or murder. As you said, dead is dead. My moral compass is in place. I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. I believe my moral compass to be in place too. I see it like this, as I have said many times before, God has dominion over souls that I simply dont have nor can I truly fathom. I can affect someones mortal life but I have NO affect on what becomes of them after their mortal life is over , yet GOD does. Yes God does dominion over souls, BUT, if God is on such a higher plane than we are, wouldn't it stand to reason He'd be above such things as the Bible claims He is capable of? Otherwise if He's not, He's no better than we are! Depends upon what reason you refer to. It stands to my reason that he is above us and that he sometimes sends message through us and our actions. You know there's one argument that almost seems like a crutch to me in terms of Christianity. It's the whole notion of: "His ways are not our ways". Isn't that a little conveiniently absolving this God of any wrong doing? After all how can anyone argue that? Is it a crutch to say that dogs arent good or bad, they just survive? Is that giving dogs a crutch or an excuse or is that aknowledging a different level of consciousness and existence which exists for animals of the wild than what exists for man? I believe the same difference exists between Gods consciousness and ours. We are mere animals compared to him. We dont have a level of consciousness that he does so our concern is with survival as WE know it, and yet He knows about survival beyond the mortal which we cannot grasp. |
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Yes, Had I been Joshua and God had instructed me to personally save souls by eliminating a cancerous or soul dead people, I would have done it too. I did not ask you if you had been Joshua. I asked you. The thing is, any spirit or demon can appear to a person and claim to be God and order them to kill someone. How can you be so sure who they really are? Also, you have no way of knowing if a person is "soul dead" you would just be following orders. Imagine yourself with a sword. Imagine a mother and baby. Your orders are to kill them. Your orders are not from God but from Joshua or some other authority that claims to hear God speak. (George Bush perhaps.)   If you are telling me, that it would not be against your moral compass to kill that mother and baby and that you would actually do it, then it is people like you, (nice "God fearing" people,) who horrify and scare the hell out of me. I get my moral compass directly FROM GOD that dwells within. I don't take orders from anyone else. I trust only my inner God. That is my personal relationship with God. If your question was whether I would do what GOD told me to do,,,the answer is yes. If you are asking in the context of what I would do in the time of Joshua when said event occurred, I believe it would be much more clear who Moses was and what his relation to God was to make me secure in his instructions. If you are asking in the context of what I would do in THIS time, I can say I would probably have no immediate historical context to believe God would order such a thing |
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So if you had an order from God to slaughter women and children, I take it that you would obey that order? What I object to is God ordering people to kill and/or murder. As you said, dead is dead. My moral compass is in place. I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. Funny thing is I used to believe in the whole Bush comment long ago lol, my how times change. Another example of the whole murder thing in the Bible is the great flood as well. You cannot tell me it is just to wipe out an entire population like that, particularly innocent little children. What was all so bad about the flood? Inocent children = Went straight to heaven. Didn't have to deal with physical or emotional pain. Didn't have to deal with diseases, didn't have to deal with anything foul. The only existence they knew was pretty much in the paradise of heaven. Again what is so foul about that? So they had to deal with a bit of time while they drown. That little time, give it most 10 hours is a very small amount of time to eternity. So by your logic, it'd be perfectly fine for me to smother an infant child just because they'd go to Heaven? Sure they'd suffer a while before they died, but it doesn't matter right? No it would not be right. For it is not your choice when a person leaves this world. It is not your place to make such a judgment. Would be going against the laws of our God anyways. Would be killing someone, murdering someone. And one of the 10 commandments is thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not murder, which ever word you wish to use for it. But God does it and it's ok? God can violate His own commandments but it becomes different if we decide do? Double standard much? If GOD is the law, he cannot kill UNLAWFULLY IF GOD creates life, he has the discretion to end it this is not the same as man, who does not create life, deciding to take life |
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So if you had an order from God to slaughter women and children, I take it that you would obey that order? What I object to is God ordering people to kill and/or murder. As you said, dead is dead. My moral compass is in place. I don't believe God spoke to Joshua any more than I believe he spoke to George Bush. (Which George Bush claimed.) That's a bunch of bull. Which means that THE BIBLE is not being honest or else Joshua lied. Funny thing is I used to believe in the whole Bush comment long ago lol, my how times change. Another example of the whole murder thing in the Bible is the great flood as well. You cannot tell me it is just to wipe out an entire population like that, particularly innocent little children. What was all so bad about the flood? Inocent children = Went straight to heaven. Didn't have to deal with physical or emotional pain. Didn't have to deal with diseases, didn't have to deal with anything foul. The only existence they knew was pretty much in the paradise of heaven. Again what is so foul about that? So they had to deal with a bit of time while they drown. That little time, give it most 10 hours is a very small amount of time to eternity. So by your logic, it'd be perfectly fine for me to smother an infant child just because they'd go to Heaven? Sure they'd suffer a while before they died, but it doesn't matter right? Yes, and they are mostly against abortion. It don't make much sense does it? No it doesn't. Murder is murder I don't care if "God" is doing it or someone else is. Killing and wiping someone out for whatever reason is NOT love. so , if you were a soldier, and your friend were laying beside you in pain from having part of their head blown off and parts of their body lying about,,,and you knew noone was going to be able to get to him for medical help,,, and you shot him you view this as the same type of 'murder' as if someone decided to smother an otherwise healthy child full of potential? all killing is not the same,, there are sometimes when ending a life is ending pain and therefore being merciful |
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