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| Topic: Faith versus Fear | |
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Cowboy wrote: Have no idea why people say to have fear in God. They get it from the Christians. And other Abrahamic religions. I don't know of any other religions the preach that God will cast anyone into everlasting punishment for not supporting the religion. The Wiccans don't preach that anyone should fear God. The Buddhists don't preach that anyone should fear God. Only the Abrahamic religions preach such nonsense. That's where it comes from Cowboy. The Abraham religions. Refuse to climb on board their religion and they'll have God condemning you to everlasting punishment. That's where it comes from my friend. It doesn't come from anywhere else.  Well then it's a personal "opinion" and has no true bearing on anything. We are to love God, not "fear" him. I mean yeah fear a little, with love comes fear. You love your spouse, you fear loosing them. Maybe not a "conscience" fear, but nevertheless there is that bit of fear there. That is why you do things SHE wants, regardless if you wish to do it or not. You wish to make her/him happy and you fear not doing as such. That right there would be the only fear there is. Not a fear of eternal damnation or anything, but a fear not doing your part in the relationship. However in a healthy relationship, be parent to child, or spouse to spouse, there is communication that comes along the way. This encompasses the way things are in the relationship, what's good and what isn't, and what changes if any need be made to improve upon it. If.....the communication in this case is all one sided, meaning you have to do things one way and one way only with no room for any deviation, how can it be healthy? It can't, because there's no true give and take, it's unbalanced. Ah very true. But you're looking at it from a secular point of view. God isn't just a father, he's our creator, our lord, our leader, and of course our friend. In a Monarchy, when the king tells a peasant to do this or that, is there room for discussion? When a parent tells their child to do this or that, is there room for discussion? And parent to child would be a full grown adult parent telling their little child say 10 years old. If that parent tells their child to clean their room or they will be grounded, is there room for discussion? Room for deviation? No, the child cleans his/her room or is grounded. Does it matter where I am viewing it from? If God knows better than we and WE know what a healthy relationship is, SURELY He does. As for the parent-child thing, yes there may be rules, BUT here's the difference. They ALWAYS can make up for any wrongdoing, you CAN'T if you reject your God outright. Further, no good parent will torture their kids forever and ever (or kill them depending on belief) either, but your God does. If your child continuously stated you were not their parent as a fact. Would you allow them to live with you? Of course your child would be over the age of 18. If your child lied all the time, was a thief, or many of other examples, would you continue to allow your child to live with you? Eternal life is a GIFT. It's not a given, it's a gift to those whom have earned it through their life. It's a reward for their obedience. And one can make up for any wrongdoing with God as well. Heck that's why Jesus sacrificed himself. To be the ultimate sacrifice for YOU to receive forgiveness. You may not let him or her live with you, but you wouldn't kill them! Therein lies the difference. You need to brush up on your definitions there Cowboy. A gift is given for FREE. If we have to do something to get it, than it isn't a gift anymore. To call it still a gift, defies all logic and good sense. Also, NO you can't! Because once you see God no matter repentant you are, you still burn. For someone who claims to forgive seventy times seven, He doesn't follow His own rule. True a gift isn't earned. But it can be loss. Will you get a gift from an enemy in life? If not, why not? The gift of eternal life isn't "earned". You can not buy your way into heaven. But you can loose the gift through disobedience. Again, true the gift isn't "earned" but all gifts can be lost. And Jesus forgives us for anything and everything one could do in a life time if that one seeks forgiveness true heartedly. But here's the thing, if the person is seeking to give a gift to us, why would they require us to do anything? How can we lose it, if they truly desire to give it to us? That may be so, but if God is all merciful and all forgiving, He has to be in this life and the next. If He's not, he fails at his own teachings. He is all merciful and all forgiving. But how can you give forgiveness to someone whom wasn't looking for it? And or doesn't think they have anything to ask forgiveness of? This being wanting to give us this reward also wishes for us to be obedient. So for you to get what YOU want, you'll have to do what HE wants. It's a fair and equal playing field. |
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Cowboy wrote: Have no idea why people say to have fear in God. They get it from the Christians. And other Abrahamic religions. I don't know of any other religions the preach that God will cast anyone into everlasting punishment for not supporting the religion. The Wiccans don't preach that anyone should fear God. The Buddhists don't preach that anyone should fear God. Only the Abrahamic religions preach such nonsense. That's where it comes from Cowboy. The Abraham religions. Refuse to climb on board their religion and they'll have God condemning you to everlasting punishment. That's where it comes from my friend. It doesn't come from anywhere else. Well then it's a personal "opinion" and has no true bearing on anything. We are to love God, not "fear" him. I mean yeah fear a little, with love comes fear. You love your spouse, you fear loosing them. Maybe not a "conscience" fear, but nevertheless there is that bit of fear there. That is why you do things SHE wants, regardless if you wish to do it or not. You wish to make her/him happy and you fear not doing as such. That right there would be the only fear there is. Not a fear of eternal damnation or anything, but a fear not doing your part in the relationship. However in a healthy relationship, be parent to child, or spouse to spouse, there is communication that comes along the way. This encompasses the way things are in the relationship, what's good and what isn't, and what changes if any need be made to improve upon it. If.....the communication in this case is all one sided, meaning you have to do things one way and one way only with no room for any deviation, how can it be healthy? It can't, because there's no true give and take, it's unbalanced. Ah very true. But you're looking at it from a secular point of view. God isn't just a father, he's our creator, our lord, our leader, and of course our friend. In a Monarchy, when the king tells a peasant to do this or that, is there room for discussion? When a parent tells their child to do this or that, is there room for discussion? And parent to child would be a full grown adult parent telling their little child say 10 years old. If that parent tells their child to clean their room or they will be grounded, is there room for discussion? Room for deviation? No, the child cleans his/her room or is grounded. Does it matter where I am viewing it from? If God knows better than we and WE know what a healthy relationship is, SURELY He does. As for the parent-child thing, yes there may be rules, BUT here's the difference. They ALWAYS can make up for any wrongdoing, you CAN'T if you reject your God outright. Further, no good parent will torture their kids forever and ever (or kill them depending on belief) either, but your God does. If your child continuously stated you were not their parent as a fact. Would you allow them to live with you? Of course your child would be over the age of 18. If your child lied all the time, was a thief, or many of other examples, would you continue to allow your child to live with you? Eternal life is a GIFT. It's not a given, it's a gift to those whom have earned it through their life. It's a reward for their obedience. And one can make up for any wrongdoing with God as well. Heck that's why Jesus sacrificed himself. To be the ultimate sacrifice for YOU to receive forgiveness. You may not let him or her live with you, but you wouldn't kill them! Therein lies the difference. You need to brush up on your definitions there Cowboy. A gift is given for FREE. If we have to do something to get it, than it isn't a gift anymore. To call it still a gift, defies all logic and good sense. Also, NO you can't! Because once you see God no matter repentant you are, you still burn. For someone who claims to forgive seventy times seven, He doesn't follow His own rule. True a gift isn't earned. But it can be loss. Will you get a gift from an enemy in life? If not, why not? The gift of eternal life isn't "earned". You can not buy your way into heaven. But you can loose the gift through disobedience. Again, true the gift isn't "earned" but all gifts can be lost. And Jesus forgives us for anything and everything one could do in a life time if that one seeks forgiveness true heartedly. But here's the thing, if the person is seeking to give a gift to us, why would they require us to do anything? How can we lose it, if they truly desire to give it to us? That may be so, but if God is all merciful and all forgiving, He has to be in this life and the next. If He's not, he fails at his own teachings. He is all merciful and all forgiving. But how can you give forgiveness to someone whom wasn't looking for it? And or doesn't think they have anything to ask forgiveness of? This being wanting to give us this reward also wishes for us to be obedient. So for you to get what YOU want, you'll have to do what HE wants. It's a fair and equal playing field. And of this gift we are speaking of. This is a reward. A reward for our obedience. That is what the gift is. It's not just a gift given in vein and or without reason. |
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Cowboy wrote: Have no idea why people say to have fear in God. They get it from the Christians. And other Abrahamic religions. I don't know of any other religions the preach that God will cast anyone into everlasting punishment for not supporting the religion. The Wiccans don't preach that anyone should fear God. The Buddhists don't preach that anyone should fear God. Only the Abrahamic religions preach such nonsense. That's where it comes from Cowboy. The Abraham religions. Refuse to climb on board their religion and they'll have God condemning you to everlasting punishment. That's where it comes from my friend. It doesn't come from anywhere else. Well then it's a personal "opinion" and has no true bearing on anything. We are to love God, not "fear" him. I mean yeah fear a little, with love comes fear. You love your spouse, you fear loosing them. Maybe not a "conscience" fear, but nevertheless there is that bit of fear there. That is why you do things SHE wants, regardless if you wish to do it or not. You wish to make her/him happy and you fear not doing as such. That right there would be the only fear there is. Not a fear of eternal damnation or anything, but a fear not doing your part in the relationship. However in a healthy relationship, be parent to child, or spouse to spouse, there is communication that comes along the way. This encompasses the way things are in the relationship, what's good and what isn't, and what changes if any need be made to improve upon it. If.....the communication in this case is all one sided, meaning you have to do things one way and one way only with no room for any deviation, how can it be healthy? It can't, because there's no true give and take, it's unbalanced. Ah very true. But you're looking at it from a secular point of view. God isn't just a father, he's our creator, our lord, our leader, and of course our friend. In a Monarchy, when the king tells a peasant to do this or that, is there room for discussion? When a parent tells their child to do this or that, is there room for discussion? And parent to child would be a full grown adult parent telling their little child say 10 years old. If that parent tells their child to clean their room or they will be grounded, is there room for discussion? Room for deviation? No, the child cleans his/her room or is grounded. Does it matter where I am viewing it from? If God knows better than we and WE know what a healthy relationship is, SURELY He does. As for the parent-child thing, yes there may be rules, BUT here's the difference. They ALWAYS can make up for any wrongdoing, you CAN'T if you reject your God outright. Further, no good parent will torture their kids forever and ever (or kill them depending on belief) either, but your God does. If your child continuously stated you were not their parent as a fact. Would you allow them to live with you? Of course your child would be over the age of 18. If your child lied all the time, was a thief, or many of other examples, would you continue to allow your child to live with you? Eternal life is a GIFT. It's not a given, it's a gift to those whom have earned it through their life. It's a reward for their obedience. And one can make up for any wrongdoing with God as well. Heck that's why Jesus sacrificed himself. To be the ultimate sacrifice for YOU to receive forgiveness. You may not let him or her live with you, but you wouldn't kill them! Therein lies the difference. You need to brush up on your definitions there Cowboy. A gift is given for FREE. If we have to do something to get it, than it isn't a gift anymore. To call it still a gift, defies all logic and good sense. Also, NO you can't! Because once you see God no matter repentant you are, you still burn. For someone who claims to forgive seventy times seven, He doesn't follow His own rule. True a gift isn't earned. But it can be loss. Will you get a gift from an enemy in life? If not, why not? The gift of eternal life isn't "earned". You can not buy your way into heaven. But you can loose the gift through disobedience. Again, true the gift isn't "earned" but all gifts can be lost. And Jesus forgives us for anything and everything one could do in a life time if that one seeks forgiveness true heartedly. But here's the thing, if the person is seeking to give a gift to us, why would they require us to do anything? How can we lose it, if they truly desire to give it to us? That may be so, but if God is all merciful and all forgiving, He has to be in this life and the next. If He's not, he fails at his own teachings. He is all merciful and all forgiving. But how can you give forgiveness to someone whom wasn't looking for it? And or doesn't think they have anything to ask forgiveness of? This being wanting to give us this reward also wishes for us to be obedient. So for you to get what YOU want, you'll have to do what HE wants. It's a fair and equal playing field. Ever hear of forgiving an enemy even just from afar? Ring a bell? It's fair my butt, it's abuse. It's holding love ransom unless you do things only one way. Real love does not do that. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Sat 03/19/11 01:07 AM
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Cowboy wrote: Have no idea why people say to have fear in God. They get it from the Christians. And other Abrahamic religions. I don't know of any other religions the preach that God will cast anyone into everlasting punishment for not supporting the religion. The Wiccans don't preach that anyone should fear God. The Buddhists don't preach that anyone should fear God. Only the Abrahamic religions preach such nonsense. That's where it comes from Cowboy. The Abraham religions. Refuse to climb on board their religion and they'll have God condemning you to everlasting punishment. That's where it comes from my friend. It doesn't come from anywhere else. Well then it's a personal "opinion" and has no true bearing on anything. We are to love God, not "fear" him. I mean yeah fear a little, with love comes fear. You love your spouse, you fear loosing them. Maybe not a "conscience" fear, but nevertheless there is that bit of fear there. That is why you do things SHE wants, regardless if you wish to do it or not. You wish to make her/him happy and you fear not doing as such. That right there would be the only fear there is. Not a fear of eternal damnation or anything, but a fear not doing your part in the relationship. However in a healthy relationship, be parent to child, or spouse to spouse, there is communication that comes along the way. This encompasses the way things are in the relationship, what's good and what isn't, and what changes if any need be made to improve upon it. If.....the communication in this case is all one sided, meaning you have to do things one way and one way only with no room for any deviation, how can it be healthy? It can't, because there's no true give and take, it's unbalanced. Ah very true. But you're looking at it from a secular point of view. God isn't just a father, he's our creator, our lord, our leader, and of course our friend. In a Monarchy, when the king tells a peasant to do this or that, is there room for discussion? When a parent tells their child to do this or that, is there room for discussion? And parent to child would be a full grown adult parent telling their little child say 10 years old. If that parent tells their child to clean their room or they will be grounded, is there room for discussion? Room for deviation? No, the child cleans his/her room or is grounded. Does it matter where I am viewing it from? If God knows better than we and WE know what a healthy relationship is, SURELY He does. As for the parent-child thing, yes there may be rules, BUT here's the difference. They ALWAYS can make up for any wrongdoing, you CAN'T if you reject your God outright. Further, no good parent will torture their kids forever and ever (or kill them depending on belief) either, but your God does. If your child continuously stated you were not their parent as a fact. Would you allow them to live with you? Of course your child would be over the age of 18. If your child lied all the time, was a thief, or many of other examples, would you continue to allow your child to live with you? Eternal life is a GIFT. It's not a given, it's a gift to those whom have earned it through their life. It's a reward for their obedience. And one can make up for any wrongdoing with God as well. Heck that's why Jesus sacrificed himself. To be the ultimate sacrifice for YOU to receive forgiveness. You may not let him or her live with you, but you wouldn't kill them! Therein lies the difference. You need to brush up on your definitions there Cowboy. A gift is given for FREE. If we have to do something to get it, than it isn't a gift anymore. To call it still a gift, defies all logic and good sense. Also, NO you can't! Because once you see God no matter repentant you are, you still burn. For someone who claims to forgive seventy times seven, He doesn't follow His own rule. True a gift isn't earned. But it can be loss. Will you get a gift from an enemy in life? If not, why not? The gift of eternal life isn't "earned". You can not buy your way into heaven. But you can loose the gift through disobedience. Again, true the gift isn't "earned" but all gifts can be lost. And Jesus forgives us for anything and everything one could do in a life time if that one seeks forgiveness true heartedly. But here's the thing, if the person is seeking to give a gift to us, why would they require us to do anything? How can we lose it, if they truly desire to give it to us? That may be so, but if God is all merciful and all forgiving, He has to be in this life and the next. If He's not, he fails at his own teachings. He is all merciful and all forgiving. But how can you give forgiveness to someone whom wasn't looking for it? And or doesn't think they have anything to ask forgiveness of? This being wanting to give us this reward also wishes for us to be obedient. So for you to get what YOU want, you'll have to do what HE wants. It's a fair and equal playing field. Ever hear of forgiving an enemy even just from afar? Ring a bell? It's fair my butt, it's abuse. It's holding love ransom unless you do things only one way. Real love does not do that. Jesus forgives us for anything we possibly could do if we truly seek the forgiveness. Real love is what our father offers. But again how can one receive forgiveness if they are not seeking forgiveness? |
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I disagree fear and faith are opposites faith is merely BELIEF, and fear can certainly be based in what one believes for example, If I believe that the man I have been seeing murdered someone, but I cant prove it, I may fear(be apprehensive) about remaining around him antonyms for FEAR are agnosticism, denial, doubt, rejection, skepticism, unbelief I don't think that I would call faith "merely" belief; although belief is involved with faith. "Knowing" can also eliminate fear. Faith may be part belief, part knowing and part trust and part experience. A person with confidence will have less fear. Confidence comes with knowing, and experience. The greatest fear for some people is said to be public speaking. But if you have experience and confidence, you will have faith that you will do a good job and won't be laughed off the stage. RELIGION: Where the term faith is used in religions, you are asked to have faith in your religious authority to know what he or it (The Scripture) means or is talking about. I mistyped that, I meant to post antonyms for FAITH are agnosticism, denial, doubt, rejection, skepticism, unbelief I have faith in God, I have faith in the Lord, I have faith in the message of the Bible as opposed to denying, doubting, rejecting,or being skeptical of God, the Lord, or the message of the bible |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sat 03/19/11 01:23 AM
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I disagree fear and faith are opposites faith is merely BELIEF, and fear can certainly be based in what one believes for example, If I believe that the man I have been seeing murdered someone, but I cant prove it, I may fear(be apprehensive) about remaining around him antonyms for FEAR are agnosticism, denial, doubt, rejection, skepticism, unbelief I don't think that I would call faith "merely" belief; although belief is involved with faith. "Knowing" can also eliminate fear. Faith may be part belief, part knowing and part trust and part experience. A person with confidence will have less fear. Confidence comes with knowing, and experience. The greatest fear for some people is said to be public speaking. But if you have experience and confidence, you will have faith that you will do a good job and won't be laughed off the stage. RELIGION: Where the term faith is used in religions, you are asked to have faith in your religious authority to know what he or it (The Scripture) means or is talking about. I mistyped that, I meant to post antonyms for FAITH are agnosticism, denial, doubt, rejection, skepticism, unbelief I have faith in God, I have faith in the Lord, I have faith in the message of the Bible as opposed to denying, doubting, rejecting,or being skeptical of God, the Lord, or the message of the bible The problem I have with this is.....your religion tends to equate not believing in the Bible as the truth, with not believing in God or a Creator outright, or having little faith to speak of. That's a pretty big claim to be making, any number of people can and do believe in God, but just don't believe the Bible is as it is said to be. Just because they reject how you specifically see God, does not mean they are rejecting God outright. You can try and say till you're blue in the face they are, but it won't make it true. They just believe God is different from what you do, those that do believe still. |
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Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. James 2:19
the book saves noone, our FAITH in God does the book is a resource, there is a choice to use it or not, |
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Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. James 2:19 the book saves noone, our FAITH in God does the book is a resource, there is a choice to use it or not, Yes but the faith basically revolves upon the book, so if one doesn't believe in it, it's tantamount to rejecting God to your religion. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 03/19/11 02:14 AM
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Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. James 2:19 the book saves noone, our FAITH in God does the book is a resource, there is a choice to use it or not, Yes but the faith basically revolves upon the book, so if one doesn't believe in it, it's tantamount to rejecting God to your religion. that totally depends upon how such disbelief manifests a book could tell me how to live a healthy life, and I could trust that book enough to refer to it often but there can also be someone who never READ the book but knows through other resources how to live a healthy life, and who does so just fine and they might read my health book and disagree with quite a bit of it (even though the book is accurate enough to work for my health) but yet they will still be as capable of good health as I am a healthy life isnt contingent upon reading health books nor is faith in God contingent upon reading a religious book |
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a healthy life isnt contingent upon reading health books nor is faith in God contingent upon reading a religious book What you say is definitely true. But I agree with Kleisto that many Christians will believe that a person is rejecting God if they do not practice Christianity. It is a Christians belief that there is only one God and for them, that God has a name. A God by any other name, to them, is seen as a "False God." I agree that "demons" also believe in one God. (For me, aliens or non human life forms are demons) These reptilians are said to believe in and worship God. (I've never met one but that is the indication from all that I have read.) Other religions that worship God also believe in One God. Their God may have a different name and different story. The thing is, if there is only One God, there can't be any other Gods at all. Still there seem to be many Gods. So it becomes a childish game of accusing the other person or demon of worshiping a false God or rejecting the true God. Its so ridiculous because NONE of these worshipers have any proof that God exists. Their God does not show up at their meetings. What I tell anyone who accuses me of rejecting "GOD" if I am of a different faith or belief is that they do not own God. Nobody owns God. One person has no right to suggest that any other person is rejecting God just because they believe that their particular God is the only true God. |
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I don't agree with your theory .......
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I don't agree with your theory ....... whose theory? |
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John 3
"For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son."15 However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them. For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will. And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. For it is my Father's will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day."16 |
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The bottom line is pretty simple.
Christianity is indeed a fear-based religion. It stands entirely on the principle that we need to be "saved". And what is it that we need to be "saved" from? Well duh? We need to be "saved" from the wrath of the religion's very own God and his threat of everlasting punishment should we refuse to worship and 'love' this God. That's a fear-based religion. Cowboy had said earlier: Have no idea why people say to have fear in God. But that's the very theme of Christianity. The idea that people need to be "saved". Saved from what?  There needs to be some dastardly horrible thing that we need to be 'saved' from before we would need to be 'saved'. And that's where the fear element comes into play. Either convert to Christianity or be damned!  You're even in denial about that. You try to pretend that it's just about loving God. But you refuse to acknowledge the love that other people have of God in their own way. They only thing that you'll accept as a "Christian" is support for the entire Christian doctrine (i.e. the Bible), as the verbatim "word of God". And even THEN you have extremist fundamentalist views on precisely how that doctrine must be interpreted. Well, we aren't buying your extremist fundamentalist position. I'm not kidding in the slightest when I say that I believe that Jesus was a Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva. That makes far more sense to me than anything the authors of the New Testament are attempting to claim. Moreover, why should I feel that I'm in need of being 'saved'? Like I say, that can only be a fear-tactic. I have no reason to fear God other than because the Christians are attempting to claim that I SHOULD! The Christians are the ones who are attempting to claim that I have something to FEAR from God. Not me. This only comes from the Christians. I don't hear this kind of fear-tactic used by Wiccans, or Buddhists. They both recognize my love of God without any problem. The Christians are the only ones who are pointing fingers demanding that God will be mean to me if I don't cower down to their extremist beliefs. They are the only religion that uses fear-tactics to the extreme. |
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I don't agree with your theory ....... whose theory? |
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ONe interpretation might be 'saved' from wrath
my instinct considers sin to be bondage, and there is scripture which seems to support this (scripture describing the words of JESUS) so, for me, I am being 'saved' from bondage, set free I am also being 'saved' from the wages of sin , death as in the much used term amongst human beings 'you saved my life' |
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Faith and Fear are opposites. That is why when Peter fell out of the boat, Jesus said, "Do not be afraid. Oh, ye of little faith." When we are in faith, we cannot fear. When we are in fear, we cannot have faith. 10 The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever. NKJV Or...........Ps 19:9 9 The fear of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever; NKJV Shalom..Miles |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sat 03/19/11 11:22 AM
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ONe interpretation might be 'saved' from wrath my instinct considers sin to be bondage, and there is scripture which seems to support this (scripture describing the words of JESUS) so, for me, I am being 'saved' from bondage, set free I am also being 'saved' from the wages of sin , death as in the much used term amongst human beings 'you saved my life' Have you ever wondered though why a loving parent would ever call any of his or her kids, sinners? Sinners that are worthless without them? What good would that serve beyond beating and shaming them into obedience? |
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John 3 "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son."15 That is not how I remember that verse to read. Makes me wonder how many times the Bible has been rewritten, and in the rewriting of it, how many times it has been misinterpreted. If I were a person who wanted the study the Bible I would want to learn to read the original scriptures. |
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ONe interpretation might be 'saved' from wrath my instinct considers sin to be bondage, and there is scripture which seems to support this (scripture describing the words of JESUS) so, for me, I am being 'saved' from bondage, set free I am also being 'saved' from the wages of sin , death as in the much used term amongst human beings 'you saved my life' Have you ever wondered though why a loving parent would ever call any of his or her kids, sinners? Sinners that are worthless without them? What good would that serve beyond beating and shaming them into obedience? I would not call my kids sinners. I might call them brats. 
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