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| Topic: Obama Calls Arizona Immigration Bill 'Misguided' | |
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The AZ law shows racism and ignorancy.
Allowing racial profiling and racism is a travesty to this country. The feds need to step in or the supreme court or something to stop the racist from taking this country back. |
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Chase out illegal immigrants but you can't just walk up to them and ask them for ID," is insane and counter productive.
chase out murderers but dont just walk up to them and ask them for DNA......its counterproductive and OFFENSIVE to determine someones criminality by their race or their look,,, this is still a country where people from all ethnic backgrounds are still AMERICANS and starting a practice where we stop certain ethnicities because of a predominance of that ethnicity committing a crime is a ludicrous overreaction to the problem. Better policing, better community involvement, better enforcement of laws against renting to or hiring illegal immigrants,,,yes,,,,,,,but starting out by allowing the infringement of SOME peoples right to reasonable search and seizure strictly based upon some asthetic or cultural similarities is like putting a band aid on a broken leg,,,,, enforce the laws we have,, weed out criminals when they have COMMITTED or there is EVIDENCE they have commited a crime,,, dont weed out people because they "look like' they are a member of an entire ETHNIC group that correlates to one crime or another what if we stopped white males here in las vegas for walking through the parking lot,, because PERSONALLY i run into quite a few who are in the parking lots soliciting for money which I believe is trespassing and a crime so if I were a cop, should I stop a law abiding white male in a parking lot because non law abiding white males happen to be popping up SOLICITING,,,,how would I defend my perception that he LOOKED like he was going to solicit,,,,as opposed to just minding his business in the parking lot... profiling is an emotional and illogical answer to the illegal immigration issue and I oppose it regardless of WHAT group gets profiled,,,, |
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Chase out illegal immigrants but you can't just walk up to them and ask them for ID," is insane and counter productive. chase out murderers but dont just walk up to them and ask them for DNA......its counterproductive and OFFENSIVE to determine someones criminality by their race or their look,,, this is still a country where people from all ethnic backgrounds are still AMERICANS and starting a practice where we stop certain ethnicities because of a predominance of that ethnicity committing a crime is a ludicrous overreaction to the problem. Better policing, better community involvement, better enforcement of laws against renting to or hiring illegal immigrants,,,yes,,,,,,,but starting out by allowing the infringement of SOME peoples right to reasonable search and seizure strictly based upon some asthetic or cultural similarities is like putting a band aid on a broken leg,,,,, enforce the laws we have,, weed out criminals when they have COMMITTED or there is EVIDENCE they have commited a crime,,, dont weed out people because they "look like' they are a member of an entire ETHNIC group that correlates to one crime or another what if we stopped white males here in las vegas for walking through the parking lot,, because PERSONALLY i run into quite a few who are in the parking lots soliciting for money which I believe is trespassing and a crime so if I were a cop, should I stop a law abiding white male in a parking lot because non law abiding white males happen to be popping up SOLICITING,,,,how would I defend my perception that he LOOKED like he was going to solicit,,,,as opposed to just minding his business in the parking lot... profiling is an emotional and illogical answer to the illegal immigration issue and I oppose it regardless of WHAT group gets profiled,,,, LA Sheriff has been ordered lately to begin to shake down those "Homeless and Hungry" MFs. All they need to do is see them sitting there with a sign. The NAACP and ACLU have been fighting this forever even thought there are laws on the books here preventing "loitering and panhandling." Why not look at the fact the NAACP and ACLU have fought tooth and nail to PREVENT officers from doing their duty dealing with illegal solicitors. Redondo PD does not put up with it yet Santa Monica declared themselves a "Safe Haven" for homeless and the locals there are PISSED OFF about it. Don't compare the two. You want to point a finger as to why the police can't act in some situations blame the NAACP and the ACLU! |
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Interesting that most of the ones who doth protest the 'incivility' of the AZ law fail to see the irony inherent in the declaration of political jihad by a PRESIDENT of 'ALL the people' [sic] against ONE American STATE. He is willing to bring down the full force of the government and its resources on ONE state that dares to stand up and say 'Do your job!'. Better re-read that poem by Pastor Niemöller before it's too late ... If he can do it to AZ, he can do it to YOU.
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The AZ law shows racism and ignorancy. Allowing racial profiling and racism is a travesty to this country. The feds need to step in or the supreme court or something to stop the racist from taking this country back. Do us all a favor, go to Mexico, tell them you are there illegally. Then come back and open your mouth again! Arizona can tell the Fed to go F themselves because each state has a certain amount of Sovereignty. The Arizona law is not racist. It is a standard you don't like because of racial implications. It isn't racist. It is a policy. Amnesty is BS. The Fed needs to enforce more rather than interfere with state policies. Our nation needs to stop coddling every poor destitute jack off from other countries that wants in for a free ride. Your equating maintaining the standard of law (which is supposed to be colorblind) to racism is fallacious and self ingratiating. All you do is fall back on "chasing out illegal immigrants is racist" line when chasing out illegal immigration is "LAW ENFORCEMENT." There is a huge difference you refuse to acknowledge. Hell yes I want MY country back and I personally want to see MUCH tighter standards for allowing people to come here! So we are supposed to allow OUR culture to fade away to make you feel good? Again go to Mexico and shoot your mouth off. Boy I bet they would love to deal with a mouthy Americano Gringa and I am sure they would show you nothing but professionalism and courtesy when they throw you back out of Mexico (Yeah  sure!).
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pick WHO up is the question,,,anyone who looks hispanic? in that case anyone who looks british or canadian? how do you SUSPECT someone of being illegal just by SEEING them? its a scary slope to start sliding down,,,,,, If someone has broken a law and must show id,, that is one thing. But showing ID because you 'look' like an immigrant is totally infringing upon the right of every law abiding citizen who may happen to have enough immigrant blood to 'look' the part... well,to be honest,lets think about this for a second. as far as a Majority of the people coming from across the border goes,what nationality ARE they? i think you have to admit the problem here,and its not Racial,its Common sense. they are illegal immigrants..i could care less if they are hispanic,green,purple whatever..but! the Truth is,they are mostly brown hispanic people. so who do You Think the cops are gonna be on the lookout for? and,i also like the comment about the various roadblacks and checkpoints too. that singles out no-one but the drivers who happen to be there,right place,wrong time. im sure this has already been said..i just wanted to say my piece. or was it...peace... |
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Edited by
DrRob
on
Tue 04/27/10 10:08 AM
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also,after reading Andys post,just above mine.
{ wowsa,i didnt even notice there was 9 pages of this till after i posted ! } anyways,hes got a valid point. aside from the Tourism-tourists spots,do you Really think mexico-people like having americans around in their country? have you heard of the murders,robberies,beatings and etc of americans in mexico? my point is,mexico,in no way,is as friendly to americans as americans have been friendly to them. and if you want to cry racism,then please,use common sense,and Apply it to Both countries. again,just my .02 |
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Chase out illegal immigrants but you can't just walk up to them and ask them for ID," is insane and counter productive. chase out murderers but dont just walk up to them and ask them for DNA......its counterproductive and OFFENSIVE to determine someones criminality by their race or their look,,, this is still a country where people from all ethnic backgrounds are still AMERICANS and starting a practice where we stop certain ethnicities because of a predominance of that ethnicity committing a crime is a ludicrous overreaction to the problem. Better policing, better community involvement, better enforcement of laws against renting to or hiring illegal immigrants,,,yes,,,,,,,but starting out by allowing the infringement of SOME peoples right to reasonable search and seizure strictly based upon some asthetic or cultural similarities is like putting a band aid on a broken leg,,,,, enforce the laws we have,, weed out criminals when they have COMMITTED or there is EVIDENCE they have commited a crime,,, dont weed out people because they "look like' they are a member of an entire ETHNIC group that correlates to one crime or another what if we stopped white males here in las vegas for walking through the parking lot,, because PERSONALLY i run into quite a few who are in the parking lots soliciting for money which I believe is trespassing and a crime so if I were a cop, should I stop a law abiding white male in a parking lot because non law abiding white males happen to be popping up SOLICITING,,,,how would I defend my perception that he LOOKED like he was going to solicit,,,,as opposed to just minding his business in the parking lot... profiling is an emotional and illogical answer to the illegal immigration issue and I oppose it regardless of WHAT group gets profiled,,,, LA Sheriff has been ordered lately to begin to shake down those "Homeless and Hungry" MFs. All they need to do is see them sitting there with a sign. The NAACP and ACLU have been fighting this forever even thought there are laws on the books here preventing "loitering and panhandling." Why not look at the fact the NAACP and ACLU have fought tooth and nail to PREVENT officers from doing their duty dealing with illegal solicitors. Redondo PD does not put up with it yet Santa Monica declared themselves a "Safe Haven" for homeless and the locals there are PISSED OFF about it. Don't compare the two. You want to point a finger as to why the police can't act in some situations blame the NAACP and the ACLU! The ACLU has a job to do to make sure civil liberties arent violated. As for the NAACP, as a member, I know of no situation where they have stopped officers from doing their job(to protect and serve,,,all ). |
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Interesting that most of the ones who doth protest the 'incivility' of the AZ law fail to see the irony inherent in the declaration of political jihad by a PRESIDENT of 'ALL the people' [sic] against ONE American STATE. He is willing to bring down the full force of the government and its resources on ONE state that dares to stand up and say 'Do your job!'. Better re-read that poem by Pastor Niemöller before it's too late ... If he can do it to AZ, he can do it to YOU. lol, political jihad,,,,some people should write for the enquirer,,lol freedom of speech doesnt apply to presidents I suppose, unless they are agreeing with what we want to hear... his statement "That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona -- which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and our communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe.” ,oh my goodness,, the ATROCITY of supporting fairness,,,,!!!! |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 04/27/10 11:20 AM
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also,after reading Andys post,just above mine. { wowsa,i didnt even notice there was 9 pages of this till after i posted ! } anyways,hes got a valid point. aside from the Tourism-tourists spots,do you Really think mexico-people like having americans around in their country? have you heard of the murders,robberies,beatings and etc of americans in mexico? my point is,mexico,in no way,is as friendly to americans as americans have been friendly to them. and if you want to cry racism,then please,use common sense,and Apply it to Both countries. again,just my .02 Dr Rob,, quite frankly , Mexico SUCKS. I would never want to live there because of so much corruption , poverty , and crime, but this thread was about immigration here in AMERICA. I dont see why , as an American, I cant point out racism or unfair practice here at home without being compelled to aknowledge that it exists (and even worse) in other places...that is a given. This country though, I hold to a certain standard of fairness. This country is and has been through its history, culturally(or quite bluntly racially) diverse compared to others. In Japan, an immigrant will probably stand out because they are so ethnically monolithic. In America, however, that is not the case. We have AMERICANS of all ethnicities and colors and shades. And to react to a rising problem that, I can admit, exists predominately of members in one group, by allowing police to be turned on ALL members of that group just because they look like members,, is akin to a racial manhunt. like one poster stated , something about knowing what a deer 'looks like' before you go hunting Instead of truly making a dent in the problem, it will only further divide the country along ethnic lines.....while big corporations , banks, and private citizens continue to exploit cheap labor and easy money. Immigration laws need to START from the top, not at the end. THe laws we have would work well enough if they were ENFORCED. If AZ truly wanted to make a difference they would make their primary objective shutting down those who are soliciting and enjoying the labor and money of illegal immigrants. Get rid of the motivation to commit the crime,, the criminals will decrease in number. Instead of making it some ETHNIC war against one group of people. |
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Interesting that most of the ones who doth protest the 'incivility' of the AZ law fail to see the irony inherent in the declaration of political jihad by a PRESIDENT of 'ALL the people' [sic] against ONE American STATE. He is willing to bring down the full force of the government and its resources on ONE state that dares to stand up and say 'Do your job!'. Better re-read that poem by Pastor Niemöller before it's too late ... If he can do it to AZ, he can do it to YOU. lol, political jihad,,,,some people should write for the enquirer,,lol freedom of speech doesnt apply to presidents I suppose, unless they are agreeing with what we want to hear... his statement "That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona -- which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and our communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe.” ,oh my goodness,, the ATROCITY of supporting fairness,,,,!!!! "basic notions of fairness"= Business wants cheap labor and politicians all work for business and it also equals loudmouths who don't work and have all the time in the world to protest the enforcement of laws. |
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Dr Rob,, quite frankly , Mexico SUCKS. I would never want to live there because of so much corruption , poverty , and crime, but this thread was about immigration here in AMERICA. I dont see why , as an American, I cant point out racism or unfair practice here at home without being compelled to aknowledge that it exists (and even worse) in other places...that is a given. This country though, I hold to a certain standard of fairness. This country is and has been through its history, culturally(or quite bluntly racially) diverse compared to others. In Japan, an immigrant will probably stand out because they are so ethnically monolithic. In America, however, that is not the case. We have AMERICANS of all ethnicities and colors and shades. And to react to a rising problem that, I can admit, exists predominately of members in one group, by allowing police to be turned on ALL members of that group just because they look like members,, is akin to a racial manhunt. like one poster stated , something about knowing what a deer 'looks like' before you go hunting Instead of truly making a dent in the problem, it will only further divide the country along ethnic lines.....while big corporations , banks, and private citizens continue to exploit cheap labor and easy money. Immigration laws need to START from the top, not at the end. THe laws we have would work well enough if they were ENFORCED. If AZ truly wanted to make a difference they would make their primary objective shutting down those who are soliciting and enjoying the labor and money of illegal immigrants. Get rid of the motivation to commit the crime,, the criminals will decrease in number. Instead of making it some ETHNIC war against one group of people. msHarmony,first off id like to say i respect you immensely,ive read your posts many times,and agreed with much of what you say. i also dont like how some people feel the need to insult others to make a point,or while making their point. i respect peoples rights to their own opinions. having said that,i must also point out my previous post,where i covered the racial angle. i wish you had replied to that one,instead. cheers,Rob |
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thank you rob, the feeling is mutual
as for the racial angle, I did slightly include that previously. I can admit (due to geography only) that the largest majority of illegal immigrants will be mexican (lets put it out there). My objection, at least the image that hangs in my head, is the idea that because of this,, ALL americans which 'look' mexican will have to prove citizenship upon request,rather they are in commission of some legal violation or not. It quite reminds me of how freed blacks had to carry proof that noone owned them. It, in my opinion, is a scary and unnecessary reality when what should be done is tackling all those who are benefitting MOST from illegal immigration(and its not the immigrants). rather the business and private citizens who continue to exploit their status for their own financial benefit. Crack down from the top and dont build the laws around ethnicity. |
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thank you rob, the feeling is mutual as for the racial angle, I did slightly include that previously. I can admit (due to geography only) that the largest majority of illegal immigrants will be mexican (lets put it out there). My objection, at least the image that hangs in my head, is the idea that because of this,, ALL americans which 'look' mexican will have to prove citizenship upon request,rather they are in commission of some legal violation or not. It quite reminds me of how freed blacks had to carry proof that noone owned them. It, in my opinion, is a scary and unnecessary reality when what should be done is tackling all those who are benefitting MOST from illegal immigration(and its not the immigrants). rather the business and private citizens who continue to exploit their status for their own financial benefit. Crack down from the top and dont build the laws around ethnicity. okay,i agree most especially about the Labor/companies who exploit these people. if we took away their incentives to use these illegals,then things Might change. unfortunately,and i say this very seriously,i really dont think you can have one without the other. in other words,these companies will keep on doing business till they get caught AND punished. so,in order to alleviate the problem,the illegals must be removed from the equation. its a 2 edged sword,in other words. and the illegals are most definitely not losing out here..they get paid,they have Our jobs.. many of them send money back home,where they can live comfortably. they work seasonly,and return knowing that their jobs are secure,only because they will work for a lower wage. some of them are receiving benefits!! which is the stupidest thing ive ever heard of. meanwhile 10 % of americans are unemployed. whos really getting hurt here? |
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Edited by
Kings_Knight
on
Tue 04/27/10 12:06 PM
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lol, political jihad,,,,some people should write for the enquirer,,lol freedom of speech doesnt apply to presidents I suppose, unless they are agreeing with what we want to hear... his statement "That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona -- which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and our communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe.” ,oh my goodness,, the ATROCITY of supporting fairness,,,,!!!! You may be able to read, but you obviously failed Comprehension 101. His declarative statement about 'fairness' is NOT directed at 'fairness' regarding the RIGHTS of AMERICAN CITIZENS to live in freedom without fear of being murdered in their homes by ILLEGALS. His statement is directed to his position that 'fairness' is what is being withheld from the LAWLESS, the DRUG SMUGGLERS, and the COYOTES. He could care less about 'fairness' for AMERICANS - and, since you agree with his position, the logical conclusion is that you come down on the side of the ILLEGALS vs AMERICAN citizens. It's always amusing watching your ongoing defense of his indefensible positions. More Kool-Aid®? |
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thank you rob, the feeling is mutual as for the racial angle, I did slightly include that previously. I can admit (due to geography only) that the largest majority of illegal immigrants will be mexican (lets put it out there). My objection, at least the image that hangs in my head, is the idea that because of this,, ALL americans which 'look' mexican will have to prove citizenship upon request,rather they are in commission of some legal violation or not. It quite reminds me of how freed blacks had to carry proof that noone owned them. It, in my opinion, is a scary and unnecessary reality when what should be done is tackling all those who are benefitting MOST from illegal immigration(and its not the immigrants). rather the business and private citizens who continue to exploit their status for their own financial benefit. Crack down from the top and dont build the laws around ethnicity. okay,i agree most especially about the Labor/companies who exploit these people. if we took away their incentives to use these illegals,then things Might change. unfortunately,and i say this very seriously,i really dont think you can have one without the other. in other words,these companies will keep on doing business till they get caught AND punished. so,in order to alleviate the problem,the illegals must be removed from the equation. its a 2 edged sword,in other words. and the illegals are most definitely not losing out here..they get paid,they have Our jobs.. many of them send money back home,where they can live comfortably. they work seasonly,and return knowing that their jobs are secure,only because they will work for a lower wage. some of them are receiving benefits!! which is the stupidest thing ive ever heard of. meanwhile 10 % of americans are unemployed. whos really getting hurt here? Illegals are the symptom, business is the disease. Kill the disease and the symptoms will go away on their own. There needs to be a system in place by which employers can verify a potential employees status as a citizen or guest worker. This system must be hard to duplicate and highly expensive to counterfeit so it will not be worth any ones while to try to. Once a system that works (E-verify does not work) is in place then we can start arresting and imprisoning employers who knowingly hire these people, I believe after a thousand or so go to prison for it this will stop. I understand there are certain jobs Americans won't do like farming (picking fruit, cotton etc) so I propose using low risk inmates for the job, farmers would have cheap labor and the inmates can outside the prison walls 40 hrs a week and earn a little money...its a win win situation. |
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Excellent reply Sir.
inmates..again,excellent idea. an id card would be a great start. one that cannot be easily faked. the arresting of the employers,is exactly what i meant. then,like you said,it would only be a matter of time. also,if the govt was serious,they would post soldiers/reserves on the border. its Amazing how they are so careful about our borders with canada,and you cannot even get on a plane anymore without being scanned and searched-->yet the mexican border is wide open. makes no logical sense,does it? and last but not least. some of you seem to think the illegals should have rights...WHY? they came to this country Knowing they are illegals,that means they are Knowingly breaking the Laws and therefore why on earth should they receive the rights of americans? |
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Excellent reply Sir. inmates..again,excellent idea. an id card would be a great start. one that cannot be easily faked. the arresting of the employers,is exactly what i meant. then,like you said,it would only be a matter of time. also,if the govt was serious,they would post soldiers/reserves on the border. its Amazing how they are so careful about our borders with canada,and you cannot even get on a plane anymore without being scanned and searched-->yet the mexican border is wide open. makes no logical sense,does it? and last but not least. some of you seem to think the illegals should have rights...WHY? they came to this country Knowing they are illegals,that means they are Knowingly breaking the Laws and therefore why on earth should they receive the rights of americans? HERE HERE! 
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Allow me to also offer this as a potential solution to the problem of undocumented Migrant workers!
First and foremost we need to address the VERY roots of this problem, the act of immigration itself. There are two types of immigrants, Migrant workers, and people wanting to Naturalize. The first thing we need to do is open Immigration stations IN MEXICO so that all migrants can get a Tax ID number. That way while they are here they can pay their share of taxes for being here and taking advantage of the benefits we have! now they are paying their share! Win Win! Then we can screen out the known criminals before they even have a chance of getting into the system. Of course they would have to pay a filing fee as well but Migrant workers would be given a time stamped Green Card with a tax ID number assigned to that person. For a fee they can extend their visit six more months but then they have to go home for six months before being able to return again. If they don't want to naturalize then they need to spend time back home so they can see how fuqued up their stink hole nation is and then they can pay and start the process to naturalize like any other legal immigrant. How fast will that take wind out of the sails of the Coyotes? It won't drive them completely out of business but it will hurt them badly. What comes next is the Border patrol. When they catch Coyotes they will know the people they are transporting are the ones we certainly don't want here (potential criminal elements) because they didn't go through the emigration stations first. Then the Coyotes get to do HARD FED TIME!  Like it was suggested ahead of me, come down on employers like God himself got really pissed off! No more little slap on the back of the hand fines. Jail time. Real time and not in Camp Snoopy. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Tue 04/27/10 02:23 PM
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thank you rob, the feeling is mutual as for the racial angle, I did slightly include that previously. I can admit (due to geography only) that the largest majority of illegal immigrants will be mexican (lets put it out there). My objection, at least the image that hangs in my head, is the idea that because of this,, ALL americans which 'look' mexican will have to prove citizenship upon request,rather they are in commission of some legal violation or not. It quite reminds me of how freed blacks had to carry proof that noone owned them. It, in my opinion, is a scary and unnecessary reality when what should be done is tackling all those who are benefitting MOST from illegal immigration(and its not the immigrants). rather the business and private citizens who continue to exploit their status for their own financial benefit. Crack down from the top and dont build the laws around ethnicity. okay,i agree most especially about the Labor/companies who exploit these people. if we took away their incentives to use these illegals,then things Might change. unfortunately,and i say this very seriously,i really dont think you can have one without the other. in other words,these companies will keep on doing business till they get caught AND punished. so,in order to alleviate the problem,the illegals must be removed from the equation. its a 2 edged sword,in other words. and the illegals are most definitely not losing out here..they get paid,they have Our jobs.. many of them send money back home,where they can live comfortably. they work seasonly,and return knowing that their jobs are secure,only because they will work for a lower wage. some of them are receiving benefits!! which is the stupidest thing ive ever heard of. meanwhile 10 % of americans are unemployed. whos really getting hurt here? the majority of the work needs to be done at the end that is PROFITING the most(not to say immigrants dont get some benefit, its just menial in comparison). Enforcing current laws is more than enough, and to remove illegal immigrants , a blind hunt of all who 'look' immigrant is still, in my opinion, unnecessary and a civil injustice. The normal means of discovery, checking status of those ALREADY detained for some violation, checking status of those loitering, or committing some driving violation ,,are more than enough. I can never see the need or justice in a blind process that targets (or permits the targeting) specifically on asthetics or ethnicity. |
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