sure he did, that's why you don't see him you don't look. God works through people. Someone does something good that is God working through that person to do a good deed. Someone does something evil that is the Devil working through someone to do something evil. God is only visible to those who look for him.

an ironically refreshing thread this has been even though it was created more as a ridicule of faith,,it has helped to re inforce it

This thread is practically a study in "people drawing connections that don't exist". Your statements derive from where? Have meaning in what context? Are in response to what?

I must say I disagree. It looks to me like the thread was created to explore some very real damage that religious beliefs and organizations can do to people and to society, not for the express or sole purpose of ridiculing faith.

As far as reinforcing it - well I do see people being unreasonably stubborn about their statements, but that always struck me as a 'weak' kind of faith. It seems to me that the agnostic theists seem to have the deepest faith, while those that repeatedly verbally insist on their dogma seem to have the weakest faith.

It was absolutely posted to explore the damage and as well offer an escape from operation mind crime:

Again.

"No, this is not about those humble people of faith who like their warm and fuzzy lives with their chosen faith system.

It's about the fire breathing hell damnation literalist who insist on pushing their religion onto everyone else, the ones who vote for leaders that will kill a million Muslims...with "God" on their side, the ones who deny evolution and want it's teachings banned from our schools, and replaced with prayer....basically the ones who cannot take a “sheet” without a Psalm.

Religion can cause brain damage, ruin marriages, and harm others...especially children."

~~

I myself can admit that I am only human and get frustrated with other humans who keep stressing the planet over their relgion. Enough with wars and ignorance based discriminations....enough with torture...oh yeah, the USA tortured? How the phuck DID THAT HAPPEN?

A vote for the Dippic was a vote for torture and illegal wars that have killed more than a million. Oh yea oh yea tho~, do you see any of them EVEN acknowledge fault for these crimes and now the mess we were left with, of course not...must have been "god's will" eh?

to believe with conviction, that is faith,, I do believe in the life of Jesus and I doubt he altered his teachings or his words regardless of others opinions.. my faith at least is reinforced observing others with strong faith stand their ground

And you think this is the definition of Christianity?
Where did you get this idea from that this represents all who are Christians?

Your idea of a "celestial stalker" is a self contradicting
one -

and only demonstrates that you don't understand what the word "love" means.

Actually - Cowboy, Funches is correct. God did not write the bible.

You must realize - that Funches is a literalist, so in responding to him - you must say what you mean, and mean what you say.

God did not write the bible - it is "inspired of god". Men wrote the bible as they were moved by the Holy spirit. So - though a bit disingenuous - it is a fact that "Men wrote the bible."

What is incorrect to assume from this - is that the bible is fallable, because men are fallable, for that contradicts the fact that the men who wrote the bible were inspired by God. So - therefore, the fallacy of men is trumped by the infallibility of God, because it defies logic to assume that an omnicient God would not know a mistake would be written by an author writing one of the books of scripture, and by his very nature - could not allow that to happen, so would inspire that author to only account that which He (God) wanted accounted.

so when God wrote the bible did he use pen and paper, windows xp on his computer or did he take away someone's "Free Will" and forced them to write the bible ...

or was the bible "inspired by God" and Man included into the authors works "that God loves you"...not that God actually made this statement....you are just required to believe it because "the bible tells you so"

also if you only do good because it is God working through you
and if you only do evil if the Devil is working through you

then this would mean that the only time you do sometimes yourself is when you do nothing ...Is this "Free WIll"

finally ....a logical christian....welcome back Eljay




how rude ......but accurate

Two interesting points here:

FIRST,
you have two people 'acting' like fundamental christians, where 'one' feel the condescending need to correct the 'other'.

I don't judge either Eljay nor Cowboy, but the string of posts and comments from the two posters leaves a taste of radicalism.
Of course there are all sorts of radicalisms, but the religious fundamentalist kind is particularly explosive. It is the definitive kind. The radicalism from which all others are subjected:
'... BECAUSE 'god' wrote so, or because 'god' inspired man so, or because 'god' told me so...!' depending on the personal the believer lends to the words.

While Eljay positions himself here as the patriarch of the 'let me tell you which is the 'truth of truths' here!!! ... Which one of them is 'IT' ??? ... Which human version, interpretation, elevation of the mind to a particular belief of 'one', is definitive??? We are still left with an overwhelming mass of contradicting interpretations, and soooo far from even a hint of 'definitive'!!!

The only (definitive) truth about it all, is NONE!!! Of course, none of the above is the 'definitive truth'!!! Might be what occurs to be true for 'one', but not THE truth. Not ever!!!

So the problem with this 'family' of radical posters is precisely the fact that what is true for them, gets confused and collapses with the false concept of THE truth.

The absolute truth, 'god's' truth!!! ... each 'one' of those radical posters, insists on 'selling' you on the lie that 'HIS', is the 'definitive truth'. Not surprisingly, the 'truths' are always different depending on which false prophet, paper pope, or 'through the spirit' walking radical you're reading.
In the end, we are left with the impossible task of sorting out the contradicting and moralizing 'definitive truth' boxing matches this family of radicals lends itself to, in this obsessive reflex they have of naming themselves 'carrier' of the 'the WORD', and definitive truth!!!

... and we're right back to the collapse of faith and fact!!!
Our christian radical posters' comments are the direct product of the 'god/TRUTH' DELUSION!!!


As for the SECOND point,
We have our correcting poster suggesting that 'funches' is a 'literalist'?!?!?! And that with such 'literalist', one has to say what one means, and mean what one says, implying that otherwise, with any other type of 'adversary', you can let lose with the party line's usual shitbul!!!

Of course, 'funches' is anything but a 'literalist' (condemned to first degree, 'word-for-word' intrerpretation). While it is not my place to define 'what' or 'who' 'funches' is, the thought of 'literalist' would never come to mind when it comes to 'funches'.
IMHO, he occurs to me as an onthologist, the complete contrary of the 'literalist'.
Ironically, the 'literalists' are the christian radicals, enslaved to their individual interpretation, or their particular version of either 'inspired, spoken, or written 'word-for-word' perceived definitive truth of their individual 'god' !!! ... completely cut-off from reality; from what is so.



Acknowledging this collapse of fact and faith, we could only reconcile what Eljay proposes above, with reality, by establishing ontologically that in Eljay's personal view of things, his belief, distinct from reality, is that he brings his mind to imagine 'as real' the words written in the 'bible' as all inspired by 'his god', and subsequently, as infallible (for him). So far so good.

To elevate one's mind to imagine something distinct or different from what is; from current reality, is perfectly healthy and normal as long as you keep referring it to the context of reality in which we all swim. Call it the creative process. Call an imaginative mind. Nothing delusional so far about that process.

It is rather when one takes one's product of imagination, and dissociates it from reality; from what is so, that we enter the domain of DELUSION!!!

That is the line religious and christian radicals, fundamentalists, bible 'literalists', etc., keep transgressing, keep ignoring.
That transgression, more than any other, gives the false impression that the radical christian is being persecuted, and that is religious beliefs are being attacked!!!

IT IS THE LACK OF INTELLECTUAL INTEGRITY, AND THUS INTEGRITY PERIOD, THAT IS BEING RAISED AS A 'GOING NOWHERE' TRANSGRESSION!!!
If anything is attacked (and I don't believe 'attack' is accurate), it would be the absence of intellectual integrity, not christians, and much less their personal privilege of 'belief'.

In the end, without the essence of integrity: coming from a perspective of 'whole', vs coming from a perspective of 'broken', 'sinning', 'partial', 'divided', 'separate',
... nothing, far less salvation, for what it is worth, or an intelligent exchange, as is being attempted in these forums, IS POSSIBLE!!!

welcome back ....."Voileazur the Inquistor"

I welcome the controversial 'label' funches,
... as long as we mean an 'inquisitive' attitude: preferring questions to answers.
Or even from history, where the inquisitor were in charge of 'eliminating' heresy.
Just as long as you don't associate me with the dogma of those christian inquisitors, for I wish no harm to the fundamentalists. I simply want to remind them over and over again, that there is a cure for heresy and delusion!!!

Sincere wishes for a powerfully 'onthological' new year to you 'funches', 'guardian of the sanity', ... and most effective cure against delusion!!!

sorry....but your post did that

Ah well!

I can only conclude one thing for sure. Something got lost in your 'translation' of my post!!!

How can
'... WHAT IS PERCEIVED AND ACCEPTED AS TRUE FOR ONE...' which is a legitimate human experience,
and what some radicals would impose as
'... WHAT IS TRUE FOR ME, IS THE TRUTH FOR ALL...', which is a slip into delusion,
be associated to the 'BELIEVE IN THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE CHRISTIAN DOGMA, OR DIE!' of the moral correctors of the 'christian inquisition'?

I guess translation is a matter of perception, ... and 'one's perception is what 'one' holds as true.

Voileazur my friend ...you lost it and got personal ...you snapped ...it's called ranting...it happens to the best of us...no harm no foul... so let's move on

wouldn't any human experience be legitmate ...what would constitute a fake human experience

Are religious extremists looking at life objectively? Are the religious people who consider themselves moderates thinking objectively when they helped vote in a bunch of morons? I mean really...we have a bigger crowd of chronically dippical, who subscribe to forcing their religion onto a democracy...(had to go bottom line there)...I notice that several poster children here totally ignore the Dippic fiasco I keep pointing out...the recent damage that religion has spawned on us.

Is there ONE Christian here that voted for the Dippic that will apologize to humanity....

C'mon..fess up already..it was a mistake right?

First, what or who is Dippic?

Second,, correction is not automatically condescending,,it is how people learn when they make a mistake

Third the WHOLE TRUTH is what noone knows, but The truth can exist absolutely for all by piecing together the parts of it each of us DOES know,,otherwise, what would be the point of communication or sharing?