Topic: if jesus is God then was the baby jesus omniscient
msharmony's photo
Wed 11/18/09 05:10 PM


To be Lord and savior did not require him to be a superbaby,,


Msharmony ....if Jesus was actually God it would require him to be a superbaby ..the question becomes why would an omnipotent god lose it's omnipotency just because it was in the form of a human baby ....


It would not require him to be a superbaby at all,, that is only your perception but not based in any fact. He developed in the flesh as a man to serve as an example for mankind, most of which are not walking and talking babies. You believe that because he was Lord he HAD to display superhuman tendencies for birth. I do not believe that to be so. Because of who HE is he could take or not take whatever form HE chose,,not the form MAn thought he should.

msharmony's photo
Wed 11/18/09 05:33 PM


Further, it's delusional to doubt that nothing exists aside from yourself. It's rational to believe that your five senses are revealing to you the truth.


spidercmb...what I'm saying is that it's delusional to believe that someone you never met exist as absolute truth above your own existence ....


Wow, that would make most history classes pretty pointless....

msharmony's photo
Wed 11/18/09 05:38 PM
Very few things in this life exist as a reality for EVERYONE. But then we would have to get into some endless, pointless, rhetorical debate about the definition of reality. I see living people, so for me, walking dead are not real. There are others , somewhere, who see the dead walk amongst us which makes their reality different from mine. Reality will rarely be REAL for everyone, because it comes from the way each of us perceive the world,,,,,so go on in circles with words to refute or agree with that...:)

no photo
Wed 11/18/09 05:54 PM




Yes I can. That's the point. Some claim that "everyone has their own truth", that's just silly. I claim that "everyone has their own belief of what is truth", that's absolutely true. You believe it is true that "you can choose to believe anything you want to...but the point is you can not claim it as fact", but I vehemently disagree. That's absolute evidence that we both have a different opinion on what the truth is.


Spidercmb...the truth is that you have a religious belief ...a belief is not truth ..it's a belief


What is a truth? A truth is a belief that is accepted as reality. I accept Christianity as the truth. That doesn't make it the absolute truth, but it is the truth in my opinion. I'm not even sure of what your point is anymore. What is your point, can you explain?


if a belief was truth it would at the least be everyone's reality ....and to claim it is everyone's reality without proof that it is becomes delusion...your religious belief is clearly not everyone's reality ....and the fact that you need faith means it's not even your reality it falls more into the realm of wishful thinking


Now you are confusing an assumed or believed truth with absolute truth. The phrase "absolute truth" distinguishes it from the word "truth", hadn't you noticed that? Absolute truth is the actual reality, while truth is the assumed or believed to the reality.

no photo
Wed 11/18/09 06:02 PM

one end is a circle the other end a square


That would neither be a square nor a circle.


for Free Will to exist that would mean that God is not omniscient, clearly he would have known how everything he created would turn out, this either cancel out free will or cancel out god being omniscient


Pure babble. God knows everything and people have free will. The two are not mutually exclusive. God's awareness of your actions doesn't prevent you from performing those actions.


no believer would ever claim what god can't do ...and if a god could not communicate with his creations using the truth would mean that the god is not omniscient and not truthful


You are in over your head. God can communicate with his creations, but in communicating spiritual ideas, God uses parables and metaphors, because we don't have experiential knowledge of the spiritual. I believe that any Christian who would say that God can do evil lacks the understanding of scripture to discuss Christianity.


an again who gets to pick which is which...Satan? ...that is why if the bible is not all truth then none of it can be regarded as being turth ...it becomes a book of fables


When you read a newspaper, you don't need Satan standing there to point out when the writer was using a metaphor or a simile or a parable, do you? It's very obvious what rhetorical techniques are used and when.

And not all of the Bible is the truth. When Satan said "Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.", he was lying, but the event was truthfully recorded. So a lie was truthfully recorded in the Bible.

markumX's photo
Wed 11/18/09 11:28 PM
i don't understand how christians can sleep at night claiming Jesus is God. To say a human being is God gives God limitations, as God don't have limitations. There are many indicators that he wasn't God, Jesus never said he was God. Something of this magnitude would not be shaded by parables and subject changes which Jesus did on a constant basis. Who did Jesus pray to? Certainly not himself. Why did he have to ask his father permission to perform miracles. certainly this wasn't Joseph.
Even if Jesus was God, to have idols of him as well as printed images goes against the very fabric of the 10 commandments.
American Christianity is just a perversed version that was hijacked by the romans. Middle Eastern christianity does not follow this dogma that he's God.

no photo
Thu 11/19/09 05:17 AM

It would not require him to be a superbaby at all,, that is only your perception but not based in any fact.


Msharmony...it's not my perception for I'm merly debating as if what's in the bible is written in logic and truth ....and according to the bible God was omnipotent and omniscient so if the baby Jesus didn't have these qualities then it would an indication that he wasn't god

anyone can claim to be god but not anyone can prove themselves to be omnipotent or omniscient unless there were a god ....the adult Jesus couldn't do anything without the aid of god providing him the use of the holy ghost

when believers claim that the baby jesus is god they are saying that god as a baby was being deceptive and hiding who he was like superman done while posing as Clark Kent ...that god would have the "need" to hide who he was in the form of a powerless baby is not in the glory of god it lessens the god

no photo
Thu 11/19/09 05:22 AM



Further, it's delusional to doubt that nothing exists aside from yourself. It's rational to believe that your five senses are revealing to you the truth.


spidercmb...what I'm saying is that it's delusional to believe that someone you never met exist as absolute truth above your own existence ....


Wow, that would make most history classes pretty pointless....


Msharmony..history is about the past,the perhaps or the maybe..one's own existence is the present and the absolute ...

no photo
Thu 11/19/09 05:43 AM

That would neither be a square nor a circle.


sorry spidercmb but if you ever used mechainic tools you would know that there are devices that can fit both a square and a circular bolt ...you allow your religious beliefs to limit your imagination


Pure babble. God knows everything and people have free will. The two are not mutually exclusive. God's awareness of your actions doesn't prevent you from performing those actions.


to claim free will means that god has no divine plan and all prophecies are scams


You are in over your head. God can communicate with his creations, but in communicating spiritual ideas, God uses parables and metaphors, because we don't have experiential knowledge of the spiritual. I believe that any Christian who would say that God can do evil lacks the understanding of scripture to discuss Christianity.


spidercmb...either god is omniscient or he's not and an omniscient god would be all-knowing enough not to resort to askewing from the truth or what is know as telling a "white lie" ...


When you read a newspaper, you don't need Satan standing there to point out when the writer was using a metaphor or a simile or a parable, do you? It's very obvious what rhetorical techniques are used and when.


is the newspaper also about as true as the word of God


And not all of the Bible is the truth.


it's amazing how believers act like non-believers and claim that their own religion and their god's word is told in falsehood ....this is pure karma

msharmony's photo
Thu 11/19/09 05:46 AM


It would not require him to be a superbaby at all,, that is only your perception but not based in any fact.


Msharmony...it's not my perception for I'm merly debating as if what's in the bible is written in logic and truth ....and according to the bible God was omnipotent and omniscient so if the baby Jesus didn't have these qualities then it would an indication that he wasn't god

anyone can claim to be god but not anyone can prove themselves to be omnipotent or omniscient unless there were a god ....the adult Jesus couldn't do anything without the aid of god providing him the use of the holy ghost

when believers claim that the baby jesus is god they are saying that god as a baby was being deceptive and hiding who he was like superman done while posing as Clark Kent ...that god would have the "need" to hide who he was in the form of a powerless baby is not in the glory of god it lessens the god



Personally, I believe Jesus was Gods son and my Lord and Saviour. But there is still no reason, except personal perception, that God would HAVE to display special powers to people to prove his omnipotence. If I dont sit around at work belting out songs, does that mean I am hiding my talent or does that mean I CHOOSE not to use them in that situation? Your arguments assume that special talents MUST be displayed at all times and in all situations to PROVE to others they exist. In reality, they can exist whether one chooses to display them to others or not. That is not diminishing, that is the power of Choice.

no photo
Thu 11/19/09 05:50 AM





Yes I can. That's the point. Some claim that "everyone has their own truth", that's just silly. I claim that "everyone has their own belief of what is truth", that's absolutely true. You believe it is true that "you can choose to believe anything you want to...but the point is you can not claim it as fact", but I vehemently disagree. That's absolute evidence that we both have a different opinion on what the truth is.


Spidercmb...the truth is that you have a religious belief ...a belief is not truth ..it's a belief


What is a truth? A truth is a belief that is accepted as reality. I accept Christianity as the truth. That doesn't make it the absolute truth, but it is the truth in my opinion. I'm not even sure of what your point is anymore. What is your point, can you explain?


if a belief was truth it would at the least be everyone's reality ....and to claim it is everyone's reality without proof that it is becomes delusion...your religious belief is clearly not everyone's reality ....and the fact that you need faith means it's not even your reality it falls more into the realm of wishful thinking


Now you are confusing an assumed or believed truth with absolute truth. The phrase "absolute truth" distinguishes it from the word "truth", hadn't you noticed that? Absolute truth is the actual reality, while truth is the assumed or believed to the reality.


a belief is what it is...a belief ....that is why for you to claim that your "belief" that Jesus existence and his purpose is absolute truth can not be regarded as being anything more than your fantasy but it's clearly not a reality simply because it is only a belief


no photo
Thu 11/19/09 05:58 AM

Personally, I believe Jesus was Gods son and my Lord and Saviour.


Msharmony...you are playing "The Trinty Hustle"... there is supposedly only one lord and that is supposedly god not Jesus ...Jesus can be your savior but to claim his as lord becomes false idol worshipping


msharmony's photo
Thu 11/19/09 06:01 AM


Personally, I believe Jesus was Gods son and my Lord and Saviour.


Msharmony...you are playing "The Trinty Hustle"... there is supposedly only one lord and that is supposedly god not Jesus ...Jesus can be your savior but to claim his as lord becomes false idol worshipping





And you are playing games with semantics. There is but one GOD, Jesus is Lord and savior. A King upholds complete authority,,as my GOD. A Lord falls slightly beneath, as Jesus.

One definition of Lord: a : a ruler by hereditary right or preeminence to whom service and obedience are due

no photo
Thu 11/19/09 06:05 AM

But there is still no reason, except personal perception, that God would HAVE to display special powers to people to prove his omnipotence.


Msharmony...there is a greater reason beyond personal perception ...according to the belief God gave "free Will" ..this mean that God would not interfer in the dealing of Man ....to then come to Man as God or the baby Jesus is totally interfering in Man's decisions and therfore cancel out "Free Will" and makes god's word to be untruthful


msharmony's photo
Thu 11/19/09 06:07 AM


But there is still no reason, except personal perception, that God would HAVE to display special powers to people to prove his omnipotence.


Msharmony...there is a greater reason beyond personal perception ...according to the belief God gave "free Will" ..this mean that God would not interfer in the dealing of Man ....to then come to Man as God or the baby Jesus is totally interfering in Man's decisions and therfore cancel out "Free Will" and makes god's word to be untruthful




WHAT? How did Jesus coming interfere with anyones free will. As I recall plenty still chose whether to follow him or not?

no photo
Thu 11/19/09 06:08 AM



Personally, I believe Jesus was Gods son and my Lord and Saviour.


Msharmony...you are playing "The Trinty Hustle"... there is supposedly only one lord and that is supposedly god not Jesus ...Jesus can be your savior but to claim his as lord becomes false idol worshipping





And you are playing games with semantics. There is but one GOD, Jesus is Lord and savior. A King upholds complete authority,,as my GOD. A Lord falls slightly beneath, as Jesus.

One definition of Lord: a : a ruler by hereditary right or preeminence to whom service and obedience are due


Msharmony.....so are you saying that Jesus is not God

no photo
Thu 11/19/09 06:09 AM



But there is still no reason, except personal perception, that God would HAVE to display special powers to people to prove his omnipotence.


Msharmony...there is a greater reason beyond personal perception ...according to the belief God gave "free Will" ..this mean that God would not interfer in the dealing of Man ....to then come to Man as God or the baby Jesus is totally interfering in Man's decisions and therfore cancel out "Free Will" and makes god's word to be untruthful




WHAT? How did Jesus coming interfere with anyones free will. As I recall plenty still chose whether to follow him or not?


if jesus is god then he is interfering....if Jesus is not God...then he is but a follower of god

msharmony's photo
Thu 11/19/09 06:10 AM




Personally, I believe Jesus was Gods son and my Lord and Saviour.


Msharmony...you are playing "The Trinty Hustle"... there is supposedly only one lord and that is supposedly god not Jesus ...Jesus can be your savior but to claim his as lord becomes false idol worshipping





And you are playing games with semantics. There is but one GOD, Jesus is Lord and savior. A King upholds complete authority,,as my GOD. A Lord falls slightly beneath, as Jesus.

One definition of Lord: a : a ruler by hereditary right or preeminence to whom service and obedience are due


Msharmony.....so are you saying that Jesus is not God


Funches, I Never said Jesus was God. I said my belief is Jesus was Gods only begotten son and my Lord and saviour. I was, however, responding to some of your posts about him not being God because even though I agree that he wasnt, I felt the arguments did not follow logic.

no photo
Thu 11/19/09 06:12 AM





Personally, I believe Jesus was Gods son and my Lord and Saviour.


Msharmony...you are playing "The Trinty Hustle"... there is supposedly only one lord and that is supposedly god not Jesus ...Jesus can be your savior but to claim his as lord becomes false idol worshipping





And you are playing games with semantics. There is but one GOD, Jesus is Lord and savior. A King upholds complete authority,,as my GOD. A Lord falls slightly beneath, as Jesus.

One definition of Lord: a : a ruler by hereditary right or preeminence to whom service and obedience are due


Msharmony.....so are you saying that Jesus is not God


Funches, I Never said Jesus was God. I said my belief is Jesus was Gods only begotten son and my Lord and saviour. I was, however, responding to some of your posts about him not being God because even though I agree that he wasnt, I felt the arguments did not follow logic.


for example?

msharmony's photo
Thu 11/19/09 06:17 AM






Personally, I believe Jesus was Gods son and my Lord and Saviour.


Msharmony...you are playing "The Trinty Hustle"... there is supposedly only one lord and that is supposedly god not Jesus ...Jesus can be your savior but to claim his as lord becomes false idol worshipping





And you are playing games with semantics. There is but one GOD, Jesus is Lord and savior. A King upholds complete authority,,as my GOD. A Lord falls slightly beneath, as Jesus.

One definition of Lord: a : a ruler by hereditary right or preeminence to whom service and obedience are due


Msharmony.....so are you saying that Jesus is not God



there are ten pages of MOSTLY posts from you here Funches. No time this morning to reread them all and I havent memorized them. Gods presence is not Interference and Jesus as the son of God would have to also Obey his heavenly father.
Funches, I Never said Jesus was God. I said my belief is Jesus was Gods only begotten son and my Lord and saviour. I was, however, responding to some of your posts about him not being God because even though I agree that he wasnt, I felt the arguments did not follow logic.


for example?