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| Topic: You can't enter if you aren't... | |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Wed 04/22/09 07:53 PM
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We will, and can never be "equal" accross the board. Until we accept that humans, as a race, are completely doomed. This will definitely kill us via genetics (if you believe in evolution). Having equal opportunities is a crucial right. But when one gets smart or lucky, we should not hold this person back for the sack of being equal. There is a difference between freedom and equality in a big picture. Oh my goodness, Driven what does all that mean? Your scaring me now. I clearified it earlier. I'm abit out of it. I'm doing this while studying... (i know it's no excuse) Basically equal treatment is important, up until I am violating your rights to succeed. Meaning, if you make more money by busting your butt, i can't take that extra money to make me equal without infringing on your freedom. Just like, affirmative action making it difficult to hire a white straight male over a black female, even though he is more qualified. I don't think anyone should ever get singled out. No one gets special treatment. Everyone gets treated the same, but if i turn out to be on the upper side of middle class, it's not because i am a white male, it is because i busted my ass going to college for 12 years, having to out compete the majority of my age group. No matter what color, race, gender sexual orientation, no one that is any less qualified than me, should ever be chosen over me, and vice versa. Until society evolves to a point where all are equally treated then it will be necessary for the government to intervene on the oppressed or discriminated's behalf. |
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dragoness...so to respect all (which is impossible to do) then everything would be eliminated in public....parades, demonstrations, etc If all religions are represented fairly in the public event then there is no favoritism. Same amount of time being given for each religion available to man is fair, if not then we have to go with the opposite to be respectful to all. again...why only religions??? every religion or non religion can celebrate now. who is stopping them?? what about gay rights parades??? what if they offend people...should they stop??? NO. they have a right to as well. what about the KKK or Black Panthers....they are going to offend people...but they have the rights as well. just like pro-life and pro-choice you seem to focus alot on religion only Gays would gladly have any other groups join in their gay and lesbian celebrations, they are not non inclusive ( know that is improper grammar). They are usually the outsiders. The other groups you mentioned are non inclusive groups they limit who can join and celebrate with them. Religion was the OP right? Ahhh....you are wrong... I have personally attended muslim ceremonies. I have seen muslims attend a local church as well. What if they accepted everyone? Would that not be inclusive? |
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Edited by
Drivinmenutz
on
Wed 04/22/09 07:52 PM
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We will, and can never be "equal" accross the board. Until we accept that humans, as a race, are completely doomed. This will definitely kill us via genetics (if you believe in evolution). Having equal opportunities is a crucial right. But when one gets smart or lucky, we should not hold this person back for the sack of being equal. There is a difference between freedom and equality in a big picture. Oh my goodness, Driven what does all that mean? Your scaring me now. I clearified it earlier. I'm abit out of it. I'm doing this while studying... (i know it's no excuse) Basically equal treatment is important, up until I am violating your rights to succeed. Meaning, if you make more money by busting your butt, i can't take that extra money to make me equal without infringing on your freedom. Just like, affirmative action making it difficult to hire a white straight male over a black female, even though he is more qualified. I don't think anyone should ever get singled out. No one gets special treatment. Everyone gets treated the same, but if i turn out to be on the upper side of middle class, it's not because i am a white male, it is because i busted my ass going to college for 12 years, having to out compete the majority of my age group. No matter what color, race, gender sexual orientation, no one that is any less qualified than me, should ever be chosen over me, and vice versa. Until society evolves to a point where all are equally treated then it will be necessary for the government to intervene on the oppressed or discriminated's behave. Yes. But when do we call it discrimination? What are these laws that should be enforced? And btw there are plenty of laws, already enforced that prevent discrimination...IMO |
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dragoness...since you want to engage..let's engage if there was a winter soltice celebration..why should I expect them to include other religions with it??? inviting people to there celebration is great...i've been to some...but wouldn't expect them to cater to me and change their celebration i don't celevrate any holidays as religious of any kind....so should I be offended by others that do???? no Are they celebrating in the streets? Is it a public celebration? Is it a public event that they are having this celebration in? If the answer to any of the above is yes then hell yea they need to include all other religions and allow time for all. If they cannot get all to participate then they need to celebrate the religious part of it in private so we are not showing preference by our public displays of religion. |
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HA HA HA
WOW...if this isn't an eye opener??? "If we wanted to keep violence down, we would have a one world religion, a one world government, one race, we would all wear uniforms and shave our heads, and we would be medicated at all times." How about this... To keep violence down... Educated yourself. Respect others. Embrace difference. Reject fear. Oh..and maybe try this, "Do unto others as you would have them do onto you" The idea that the way to keep violence down is to make us all the same is disturbing and disgusting. It supposes that people are too ugly and fearful to not be violent to anyone who is different. Heck it goes beyond that and seems to justify violence against anyone who is different. That is very sad. |
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I think the core of the problem with the gays is thay have no respect for the will of the voters at all.This should get the attention of anyone who is a registered voter here regardless of your social status.I also know of no other group of people in the history of this nation that has caused such a ruckus and generally irritated the government like the gays have.Taking the votes and wishes of the voters and throwing them in the garbage is not what this country was founded on or what it is about today.Since when does a small majority of people trample over the wishes of millions and get away with it? This is less about gay marriage and more about a small group of people trying to run this country like a dictatorship. If the will of the voters was to take away your rigth to stay married, be married or anything that you hold dear, don't tell me you wouldn't find to the finish. We irritate the government?. That's pretty funny considering even you can't get what you want from them. We irritate you, but hell we would always irritate you, hell liberals irriate you, I want that short list of what doesn't irritate you.. I see millions trampling on the small minority is pretty distasteful, but hey it's america. We are trying to run the country like a dictator?? Man you are one funny dude. If we actually were we wouldn't be having this conversation. |
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dragoness...so to respect all (which is impossible to do) then everything would be eliminated in public....parades, demonstrations, etc If all religions are represented fairly in the public event then there is no favoritism. Same amount of time being given for each religion available to man is fair, if not then we have to go with the opposite to be respectful to all. again...why only religions??? every religion or non religion can celebrate now. who is stopping them?? what about gay rights parades??? what if they offend people...should they stop??? NO. they have a right to as well. what about the KKK or Black Panthers....they are going to offend people...but they have the rights as well. just like pro-life and pro-choice you seem to focus alot on religion only Gays would gladly have any other groups join in their gay and lesbian celebrations, they are not non inclusive ( know that is improper grammar). They are usually the outsiders. The other groups you mentioned are non inclusive groups they limit who can join and celebrate with them. Religion was the OP right? not all gays are welcoming either. i was in the dance world and still am and a majority of the dancers i know are gay....some a great and friendly to all...some want nothing to do with anyone that isn't gay. every church i know welcomes people to come in no matter who they are. every celebration i have been to, they encourage people to bring others. actually "those" christians i believe were some how responsible for something or another in the OP |
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dragoness...so to respect all (which is impossible to do) then everything would be eliminated in public....parades, demonstrations, etc If all religions are represented fairly in the public event then there is no favoritism. Same amount of time being given for each religion available to man is fair, if not then we have to go with the opposite to be respectful to all. again...why only religions??? every religion or non religion can celebrate now. who is stopping them?? what about gay rights parades??? what if they offend people...should they stop??? NO. they have a right to as well. what about the KKK or Black Panthers....they are going to offend people...but they have the rights as well. just like pro-life and pro-choice you seem to focus alot on religion only Gays would gladly have any other groups join in their gay and lesbian celebrations, they are not non inclusive ( know that is improper grammar). They are usually the outsiders. The other groups you mentioned are non inclusive groups they limit who can join and celebrate with them. Religion was the OP right? Ahhh....you are wrong... I have personally attended muslim ceremonies. I have seen muslims attend a local church as well. What if they accepted everyone? Would that not be inclusive? Churches are private. That is not a public domain. |
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HA HA HA WOW...if this isn't an eye opener??? "If we wanted to keep violence down, we would have a one world religion, a one world government, one race, we would all wear uniforms and shave our heads, and we would be medicated at all times." How about this... To keep violence down... Educated yourself. Respect others. Embrace difference. Reject fear. Oh..and maybe try this, "Do unto others as you would have them do onto you" The idea that the way to keep violence down is to make us all the same is disturbing and disgusting. It supposes that people are too ugly and fearful to not be violent to anyone who is different. Heck it goes beyond that and seems to justify violence against anyone who is different. That is very sad. never mind...biting my tongue on this one |
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Too bad there are people that think that we can only exercise religion in our own homes... This, by definition, is intolerance of all, instead of tolerance of all...IMO BTW do you have control issues? Just wondering.... Hi Driven, Actually, why not excercise religion in your own home or church, why must it be in public? Do I really want to be tripping over some one meditating in the middle of the airport. Do I want to hear chanting outside my bedroom window, when I am trying to sleep? Are we so obsessed with our religions that we need to practice it everywhere, I wonder? It used to be that your religion was a private matter between you and your god, but it seems we wear it on our sleeves these days. I am glad that for the most part people where I live now are not in your face religious, they believe it's a private matter, and I think that is good thing. I believe it is a private matter as well. Just as our sexuality, we have bedrooms for that, do you really want public sex, I don't... oh wait we have that now too, but I guess I am a bit old fashioned, I don't want to see anyone going at it in the street. Just curious.. It is irresponsible to throw religion around. It is irresponsible to keep preaching when people don't want to listen. But, the first amendment sanctions this. If a kid gets caught praying quietly at a lunch table and get's in trouble for it, that is a breach of constitutional rights. As is the muslim being forbade to pray somewhere out of sight when the time comes to do so. It is illegal to prohibit the free exercise thereof... Remember? There is a balance, but this cannot be forced. See where i am going? Praying quietly at ones desk isn't a problem for me, nor is going somewhere private for Muslims, I though you mean outside my bedroom window.. grin.. Look as I see it if people really want peace, then just do it at home or in church. Don't we have enough anxiety between religions and the sexes etc? For what purpose must a child pray at school unless it's a religious school that forces it or requires it. What, the child can't pray before school? Muslims can't work their five times a day into morning and evening sessions at home or somewhere non public? I think that would be respectful of eachothers space if nothing more. I guess I just don't understand why religion has become such a public affair unless religions are in competition. I understand the free excercise thing, I just don't know why people feel the need to publically display everything... Can't we be free yet respectful of another person's space? Just wondering, not expecting that I am rambling about at this point to mean all that much. If we wanted to keep violence down, we would have a one world religion, a one world government, one race, we would all wear uniforms and shave our heads, and we would be medicated at all times. I am with you on publically displaying things. But that is something that we must just walk away from or even crack jokes at. Who cares? As long as they aren't throwing it in your face. Hell, i'm sick of seeing Paris Hilton or Britney Spears everywhere i go, but we shouldn't make it illegal for them to be celebrities... .... ....wait a minute....    Wait, I do want a law that says you can't tell us anything about Hilton of Spears, except once ever 6 months..grin. I'm not even going to go the way of one world order crapola, that won't work either. but I don't see why we can't respect each others space and leave religion in the home and church where it doesn't conflict with another persons privacy to practice theirs. Seems fair to me. Religious parades don't happen all that often so that's ok. Gay parades are not religious that I know of, but I don't like them myself, however they aren't all the time either so that's cool. Just religion and sex, those two things cause more arguments than anything else, so keep them private, except for weddings and special occasions.. why not? Im glad you don't buy into that one world order crap. But, if we respected everyone's space, and someone were religious, would we not have to respect that persons space as well? Does tolerance not go both ways? Quite true but to date I haven't heard of any gay groups calling for the end of tax breaks and other rights given to churches because they don't agree with their beliefs... So what's your point? |
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dragoness...so to respect all (which is impossible to do) then everything would be eliminated in public....parades, demonstrations, etc If all religions are represented fairly in the public event then there is no favoritism. Same amount of time being given for each religion available to man is fair, if not then we have to go with the opposite to be respectful to all. What if there weren't any people that wanted to represent any other religion? That isn't possible with all the other religions available and practiced in this country. 60 to 70% are christians. What if everyone was informed of this rally or get together, and no one from these religions happened to step forward? What if they were in the bible belt and all happened to be christians? This conversation is already hard to follow, could we at least keep it with in our known reality.... |
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HA HA HA WOW...if this isn't an eye opener??? "If we wanted to keep violence down, we would have a one world religion, a one world government, one race, we would all wear uniforms and shave our heads, and we would be medicated at all times." How about this... To keep violence down... Educated yourself. Respect others. Embrace difference. Reject fear. Oh..and maybe try this, "Do unto others as you would have them do onto you" The idea that the way to keep violence down is to make us all the same is disturbing and disgusting. It supposes that people are too ugly and fearful to not be violent to anyone who is different. Heck it goes beyond that and seems to justify violence against anyone who is different. That is very sad. I find it amusing where you took this. Kinda like you had a point, but decided to preach to the quire about it. I have always been for education. I have always been for tolerance. You either misunderstood my point, or are making a pathetic attempt at stiring up an argument. In order to promote tolerance, one must be tolerant. Prohibiting the exercise of religion, or some other belief, is intolerant. Even if you prohibited a Christian seminar because they didn't have jewish+muslim+satanist+every other religious representation. |
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Educated yourself. Respect others. Embrace difference. Reject fear. Oh..and maybe try this, "Do unto others as you would have them do onto you" Excellent advice might be a good idea to exercise those beliefs when addressing christian groups that you don't know or Texans. |
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dragoness...so to respect all (which is impossible to do) then everything would be eliminated in public....parades, demonstrations, etc If all religions are represented fairly in the public event then there is no favoritism. Same amount of time being given for each religion available to man is fair, if not then we have to go with the opposite to be respectful to all. again...why only religions??? every religion or non religion can celebrate now. who is stopping them?? what about gay rights parades??? what if they offend people...should they stop??? NO. they have a right to as well. what about the KKK or Black Panthers....they are going to offend people...but they have the rights as well. just like pro-life and pro-choice you seem to focus alot on religion only Gays would gladly have any other groups join in their gay and lesbian celebrations, they are not non inclusive ( know that is improper grammar). They are usually the outsiders. The other groups you mentioned are non inclusive groups they limit who can join and celebrate with them. Religion was the OP right? Ahhh....you are wrong... I have personally attended muslim ceremonies. I have seen muslims attend a local church as well. What if they accepted everyone? Would that not be inclusive? Churches are private. That is not a public domain. Tell me of public events that prohibit anyone because of a religion? |
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dragoness...since you want to engage..let's engage if there was a winter soltice celebration..why should I expect them to include other religions with it??? inviting people to there celebration is great...i've been to some...but wouldn't expect them to cater to me and change their celebration i don't celevrate any holidays as religious of any kind....so should I be offended by others that do???? no Religious events and parades in public don't happen on a daily basis, I think she and I are more talking about just keeping the daily practice of religion to one's home and church. I don't see why that would be so bad, we have done it for decades. But now that everything seems to have to be a public show of faith, it's starting to get on peoples nerves. I don't mean mine in particular. People are complaining about Muslim prayers etc.. Just keep it private as much as possible. Parades and events are fine, no one is forced to endure them every day. |
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Due to popular demand I feel a need to address something! The GLBT is an organization with members. They even have a historical web-site. When one, such as myself, talks about them they are not talking about every gay, lesbian, Bi-homosexual, or Transgender. They, me included are talking about an organization. IMO, an unethical organization whose methods for advancing the rights of G, L, B,& Ts has no boundaries or restraints. They will do anything no matter how reckless their methods are, or who, or what they hurt or destroy along the way. If, as a G, L, B, or T, you feel as though a debate about there lack of ethics is off limits or refers to all G, B, L, and T's then you are sadly mistaken. I am sure that not all G, B, L, and T's approve of such unethical and reckless methods they employ and as such would never think of joining or supporting such methods! If you are not a member then the debate about them should not concern your sensitivities. If you are a member I might suggest you rethink your membership and quit them, or become an active, non-complacent member and work to correct their Unethical and reckless methods. If you are a local group I might suggest you invent a new name and drop the association with the GLBT! Ok you're gonna have to come up with some demonstratable facts like where is this supposed website? Where are they physcially located? Who is their head. There are literally thousands of websites with those letters and through out the community those letters are used synonomously with referring to all GLBT's. Personally I think think this a load, but if you can come up with any of the above information I may concede that you may have been misled into believing what you just said. http://www.glbthistory.org/ |
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dragoness...so to respect all (which is impossible to do) then everything would be eliminated in public....parades, demonstrations, etc If all religions are represented fairly in the public event then there is no favoritism. Same amount of time being given for each religion available to man is fair, if not then we have to go with the opposite to be respectful to all. What if there weren't any people that wanted to represent any other religion? That isn't possible with all the other religions available and practiced in this country. 60 to 70% are christians. What if everyone was informed of this rally or get together, and no one from these religions happened to step forward? What if they were in the bible belt and all happened to be christians? This conversation is already hard to follow, could we at least keep it with in our known reality.... Hypathetical situations are possible in our own reality. From what i understand, dragoness believes that a winter soltice should be forbiden unless christians, muslims, satanists, and every other religion also gets to have an equal part in that celebration, with representation from all. I was merely trying to clarify my understanding. If the majority of americans are christian, and the majority of public events are christian, it makes sense to me. We cannot prohibit the free exercise of religion and religious traditions. |
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dragoness...so to respect all (which is impossible to do) then everything would be eliminated in public....parades, demonstrations, etc If all religions are represented fairly in the public event then there is no favoritism. Same amount of time being given for each religion available to man is fair, if not then we have to go with the opposite to be respectful to all. again...why only religions??? every religion or non religion can celebrate now. who is stopping them?? what about gay rights parades??? what if they offend people...should they stop??? NO. they have a right to as well. what about the KKK or Black Panthers....they are going to offend people...but they have the rights as well. just like pro-life and pro-choice you seem to focus alot on religion only Gays would gladly have any other groups join in their gay and lesbian celebrations, they are not non inclusive ( know that is improper grammar). They are usually the outsiders. The other groups you mentioned are non inclusive groups they limit who can join and celebrate with them. Religion was the OP right? not all gays are welcoming either. i was in the dance world and still am and a majority of the dancers i know are gay....some a great and friendly to all...some want nothing to do with anyone that isn't gay. every church i know welcomes people to come in no matter who they are. every celebration i have been to, they encourage people to bring others. actually "those" christians i believe were some how responsible for something or another in the OP I always find this interesting when an oppressed and discriminated group of people have no trust with the oppressors, they are then vicitmized more? Not saying you particularly Rose just in general. If I was discriminated against and oppressed from anything I felt was my rights as a human, I would be a tiger daily. I would be thinking all said to me that was off color or I did not understand it was a jab at me. I would be a ***** on wheels if I fit into a group of any of the peoples discriminated against in this country. And what I find is they ( the victims of this terrible crime) are far more forgiving then I could ever be, they are strong and understanding. It is amazing. |
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dragoness...so to respect all (which is impossible to do) then everything would be eliminated in public....parades, demonstrations, etc If all religions are represented fairly in the public event then there is no favoritism. Same amount of time being given for each religion available to man is fair, if not then we have to go with the opposite to be respectful to all. What if there weren't any people that wanted to represent any other religion? That isn't possible with all the other religions available and practiced in this country. 60 to 70% are christians. What if everyone was informed of this rally or get together, and no one from these religions happened to step forward? What if they were in the bible belt and all happened to be christians? This conversation is already hard to follow, could we at least keep it with in our known reality.... Oh I missed that from driven. There is still another religion practiced in that area regardless to how strong the Christian influence is. |
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Too bad there are people that think that we can only exercise religion in our own homes... This, by definition, is intolerance of all, instead of tolerance of all...IMO BTW do you have control issues? Just wondering.... Hi Driven, Actually, why not excercise religion in your own home or church, why must it be in public? Do I really want to be tripping over some one meditating in the middle of the airport. Do I want to hear chanting outside my bedroom window, when I am trying to sleep? Are we so obsessed with our religions that we need to practice it everywhere, I wonder? It used to be that your religion was a private matter between you and your god, but it seems we wear it on our sleeves these days. I am glad that for the most part people where I live now are not in your face religious, they believe it's a private matter, and I think that is good thing. I believe it is a private matter as well. Just as our sexuality, we have bedrooms for that, do you really want public sex, I don't... oh wait we have that now too, but I guess I am a bit old fashioned, I don't want to see anyone going at it in the street. Just curious.. It is irresponsible to throw religion around. It is irresponsible to keep preaching when people don't want to listen. But, the first amendment sanctions this. If a kid gets caught praying quietly at a lunch table and get's in trouble for it, that is a breach of constitutional rights. As is the muslim being forbade to pray somewhere out of sight when the time comes to do so. It is illegal to prohibit the free exercise thereof... Remember? There is a balance, but this cannot be forced. See where i am going? Praying quietly at ones desk isn't a problem for me, nor is going somewhere private for Muslims, I though you mean outside my bedroom window.. grin.. Look as I see it if people really want peace, then just do it at home or in church. Don't we have enough anxiety between religions and the sexes etc? For what purpose must a child pray at school unless it's a religious school that forces it or requires it. What, the child can't pray before school? Muslims can't work their five times a day into morning and evening sessions at home or somewhere non public? I think that would be respectful of eachothers space if nothing more. I guess I just don't understand why religion has become such a public affair unless religions are in competition. I understand the free excercise thing, I just don't know why people feel the need to publically display everything... Can't we be free yet respectful of another person's space? Just wondering, not expecting that I am rambling about at this point to mean all that much. If we wanted to keep violence down, we would have a one world religion, a one world government, one race, we would all wear uniforms and shave our heads, and we would be medicated at all times. I am with you on publically displaying things. But that is something that we must just walk away from or even crack jokes at. Who cares? As long as they aren't throwing it in your face. Hell, i'm sick of seeing Paris Hilton or Britney Spears everywhere i go, but we shouldn't make it illegal for them to be celebrities... .... ....wait a minute.... Wait, I do want a law that says you can't tell us anything about Hilton of Spears, except once ever 6 months..grin. I'm not even going to go the way of one world order crapola, that won't work either. but I don't see why we can't respect each others space and leave religion in the home and church where it doesn't conflict with another persons privacy to practice theirs. Seems fair to me. Religious parades don't happen all that often so that's ok. Gay parades are not religious that I know of, but I don't like them myself, however they aren't all the time either so that's cool. Just religion and sex, those two things cause more arguments than anything else, so keep them private, except for weddings and special occasions.. why not? Im glad you don't buy into that one world order crap. But, if we respected everyone's space, and someone were religious, would we not have to respect that persons space as well? Does tolerance not go both ways? Ok lets see if I get what you are saying. I am pretty much talking about religious practices here. Sure we would have to respect anothers space, that is what i am saying. Each of us should practice our faith in our homes and churches. Parades etc are not daily things, so they are public.. Yes tolerance goes both way, but if your praying outside my window, I might hit you with a potted plant.. |
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