Topic: Ok Im tired of the cut and paste jobs here
Jess642's photo
Sat 02/07/09 02:21 PM
Thanks Winx.....that was terrible...sad

but I do mean thankyou for the link.flowerforyou

Delsoldamien's photo
Sat 02/07/09 02:31 PM
We are checking out the nuclear power that is using spent fuel to power. There is a company in Arizona that produces them, they are small, 10X 20 boxes that are buried under ground and can generate enough electricity to supply 10,000 homes for up to 20 years. I have also invested in a company that builds fuel cells for home use, and you can use natural gas for it and it's byproduct is warm air and water...

norslyman's photo
Sat 02/07/09 02:52 PM

Community gardens are a wonderful idea. And you can grow quite a few things on a balcony. When the chips are down, alot of people will have to dig deep into their own resources of what they can do. People helping people. The barter system is a great idea as well.drinker


Exactly. During the RNC here in St Paul this fall, the police pulled over and confiscated "The Sustainable Bus". They drive around and educate people on how to start a compost pile and raise chickens - sounds like terrorist activity to me.

Remember, during the Great Depression most people lived on farms and were self sufficient to some degree. Also, there were no credit cards and the average person wasn't in 1/10th as much debt as they are now. Now we're all a bunch of fat, lazy Wal-Mart shopping, the State-is-my-Daddy, sheeple. What will happen in the inner city when the welfare checks stop?

Jess642's photo
Sat 02/07/09 02:54 PM
A lot will go outer city... and smaller towns...

vanstone's photo
Sat 02/07/09 03:30 PM
President Van Stone has a nice ring to it.........

awolf1010's photo
Sat 02/07/09 03:37 PM
wait.....what......recession. really where.......and here I have been loading up on stocks.......

transientmind's photo
Sat 02/07/09 04:31 PM
Edited by transientmind on Sat 02/07/09 04:54 PM

ok..

yes, the first diesel engines were made to run on peanut oil as were the initial combustion engines.

but engineers soon discovered that hydrocarbons contained more potential chemical energy. further, people began to realize that to fuel all the combustion engines with peanut- and corn oil would soon begin to consume entire crops of those staple foods.
The new biodiesels put out incredibly low carbon emissions http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/biodsl/p02001.pdf, according to the EPA. The main problem now is an oxide of nitrogen, which the new Mahindra (East Indian tractor and Jeep co.) trucks coming to America this year have urea scrubbers to combat.

why burn staple crops for fuel when thousands of people are starving?? if you think apples and bread are expensive now, just wait until governments begin mandating that transportation fuel be made from food crops..
Because it might make production more valuable to farmers than the current subsidy farming, which would kick our gross national product up a little bit and possibly, just possibly, create a situation where food is more readily available. Oh yeah, and we'd be feeding farmers rather than oil men.

the only reason people are able to use cooking grease cheaply right now in their diesel engines is that there is relatively little pressure on that commondity..
And because Western civilization is bent on feeding on the cheap and the greasy.

think how expensive french fries would be if people were lined up behind the burger king waiting for the used fry oil..
There might be an initial spike in junk food price. Bummer. But there would be companies that would spring into action and buy straight from the burger manufacturers. Truth be told, the better oil is "virgin" so that would be a drop in the bucket if bio went mainstream, too much of a pain to filter. Incidentally, according to a 2006 U.N. report, the livestock industry puts out 18% more carbon than automobiles. http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html

the only reason anyone thinks that this is a good idea is that it's just **something** besides the evil that is "big oil"

feel-good solutions and tree-hugging rhetoric are not going to solve the energy problem..

need energy?? we split the atom well over a half century ago...
Doing something is better than nothing. Trust me, big money is investing in alternative energy, it's just not something that they feel like sharing with the peons.

I lived within the five mile initial blast zone of Duke Energy's Oconee SC twin stacks. We could see their parking lot lights over the hill.

We knew several workers at the plant (including the guy who gets to go in and test the reaction chamber for dangerous rads), none of which were crazy about nuclear energy after seeing it firsthand.

The water in Lake Jocassee became toxic in a hurry. Mercury levels shot through the roof, nobody could eat the fish. It's not supposed to do that, right? No side effects, right? At least, not until you combine governments and corporations to get that wonderful profit vs. maintenance effect. Then they found a crack in the concrete stack that went all the way to the core. Oops.

Nuclear sounds great but the reality sucks. Bio isn't really good for the environment but it's one of the few fuels that is readily biodegradable, that is, the particles that are unburnt hit the ground as vegetable oil, not petroleum. Oh, and it generates profit, which is sexier to developers than a one-off solution.

transientmind's photo
Sat 02/07/09 05:18 PM
Edited by transientmind on Sat 02/07/09 05:48 PM

I feel wind, water and solar are better options to generate power over nuclear....


just as many jobs can be created in the making of the turbines, photovoltaic cells,etc etc, as well as installation, and maintenance.... production cnstruction and maintenance are sustainable jobs... you guys in the US use sh*teloads of powernoway noway noway

Up the road, there's an interesting sight: Tulsa-made windmills driving by Tulsa refineries on Tulsa made trucks. I'd say it was sticking it to the man but I know both the alt. energy guys and the oil men.
The rich know where the money is going to come from next, it's their business to know.

As a side note, Jay Leno's Big Dog garage is known for restoring antiquated grease-burners but he has a solar array on the roof, feeding California clean power. More businesses should do that IMO, if only to cut their own costs.



We are checking out the nuclear power that is using spent fuel to power. There is a company in Arizona that produces them, they are small, 10X 20 boxes that are buried under ground and can generate enough electricity to supply 10,000 homes for up to 20 years. I have also invested in a company that builds fuel cells for home use, and you can use natural gas for it and it's byproduct is warm air and water...
If containment is really viable, that's not a terrible idea. Actually, I like it. There's plenty of waste to go around.laugh

Winx's photo
Sat 02/07/09 06:02 PM

Thanks Winx.....that was terrible...sad

but I do mean thankyou for the link.flowerforyou


You're welcome Jesse. :smile: flowerforyou

Yep, it's sad.

no photo
Sat 02/07/09 07:31 PM


Thanks Winx, checking it out now.

Winx's photo
Sat 02/07/09 07:44 PM
This is good too, Boo and Jesse.

http://www.frac.org/pdf/Paradox.pdf

RenoirGarland's photo
Sat 02/07/09 08:20 PM
Edited by RenoirGarland on Sat 02/07/09 08:22 PM
1.. To hell with this stimulus crud. The way that congress is spending MY money, YOUR money is terrible. It's not stimulating anything.

Congress should put in place a "back to work" program. Small businesses that have 1 - 20 employees should receive a government stimulus where they can employ U.S. Citizens. To hell with unemployment benefit expansion. Give these businesses from $20,000.00 - $65.000.00 per employee. Unemployment goes down and people receive a paycheck. Business GROWS!

This also would work with NEW Businesses! The woman or man that thinks. "I have a great idea. Let's put it to work." But where can I get funding for employees.

Put the IRS to work. Let them cut the check for the employees bi-weekly. NO NEED for FED audits.

2.. Get RID of the IRS as we know it. Place a 20% FLAT TAX on MOST goods and services. Get rid of the massive amounts of paperwork. NO more W2 Forms!!!

Services and Goods that would have a lighter tax would be. Air conditioning and heating, Automobile repair, Meat and poultry, Vegetables, Baby Products, Female Products. Plus MORE!! Low income, Retired people or people with disabilities on a fixed income below $25,000.00 would be able to qualify for a TAX Rebate. These rebates could be added to your Social Security Checks monthly. So you CPA's out there don't fret, your careers are safe.

3.. Just get RID of the H1B1's. The USA has enough workers. The USA makes all kinds of excuses about how we in America do not have enough of a certain labor. Well, believe it or not. We do. People will train and go to school in order to have a better job. If industry needs people they find a way to get people. Look at nursing. Lack of nurses, Industry got creative and made it where people want to be nurses. It works!!!

4.. Get "MOM" back into the home to raise better children. If a family decides to raise a child or children and one of the parents decides to be a stay at home parent. Then the government should recognize this. If those children reach the age of 18 without having a federal crime next to their name. The parents should be rewarded at retirement. Give the stay at home person a Social Security Benefits.

5.. Make it where people can SAVE more of their money in accounts without penalty this or that. 401K, IRA, etc.. These confuse people and also have taken HITS from stock markets. And you CAN'T DO a thing about it because you will be penalized! You are basically being robbed legally. Watching your next egg fall apart why the fat cats get fatter.

BS.... Every corporation that sells stock should be forced by the GOV to sell those stocks DIRECTLY to a client. So IF you want 200 shares of ______. Then that corporation should sell you those shares. Every STOCK company should HAVE to pay dividends on a Quarterly basis. The MAX sell charge should be 2 percent. Bye Bye $9.00 trades for small sells.

6.. Cut the capital gains tax. For winning you pay a tax? Sheesh. They get you no matter what. Unless your gains are over $500,000.00 per year. NO TAX! Sell your modest house? NO TAX. Remember the person BUYING your home pays taxes. WHY should you have to pay tax for selling it!

7.. CUT Interest rates on loans. YEP YOU GOT IT! MAX Interest rate a credit card company or ANY ONE ELSE can charge should be 5 PERCENT! Nothing more, nothing less. Bankrupt is now a thing of the past for a lot of people!

8.. Price freeze on gasoline. $1.50 for reg. unlead. $1.60 on mid grade. $1.70 for High grade. AND $1.00 for Diesel...

9.. Companies that move labor out of the USA but still base their companies in the USA. HIKE THOSE TARIFFS or TAXES. Many companies received tax incentives from local governments to base their corporations in certain areas. Then those companies kill jobs by going overseas. NO MORE! Traitors!!!!!!!

10.. Make congress accountable. STOP the PORK! People in congress spend our money like water. Stop it! It should be a mark of TREASON for people in congress who misuse the American Peoples Money. Congress should only spend money on topics that would be for the welfare of the Nation as a WHOLE! No more government money for a "Rain forest in Iowa", No more money for "THE BIG DIG"

Security, Military, or Industry. To benefit ALL the people of the USA. Not just Iowa, Kansas, Texas, etc... You've wasted enough of our money and sent it overseas. It should be time for them to pay. DEARLY!!! Jail time!!!

11.. No more SHARING our industrial secrets. YES! It is happening. We develop something nationally and it is law that we must share the technology with foreign powers.

Last but not least.. Isn't CHINA a COMMUNIST country? Are they our ALLIE or FOE?

STOP empowering our enemies with American dollars.

Industrial espionage is happening. Put a stop to it!


AndrewAV's photo
Sat 02/07/09 08:40 PM

1.. To hell with this stimulus crud. The way that congress is spending MY money, YOUR money is terrible. It's not stimulating anything.

Congress should put in place a "back to work" program. Small businesses that have 1 - 20 employees should receive a government stimulus where they can employ U.S. Citizens. To hell with unemployment benefit expansion. Give these businesses from $20,000.00 - $65.000.00 per employee. Unemployment goes down and people receive a paycheck. Business GROWS!

This also would work with NEW Businesses! The woman or man that thinks. "I have a great idea. Let's put it to work." But where can I get funding for employees.

Put the IRS to work. Let them cut the check for the employees bi-weekly. NO NEED for FED audits.

2.. Get RID of the IRS as we know it. Place a 20% FLAT TAX on MOST goods and services. Get rid of the massive amounts of paperwork. NO more W2 Forms!!!

Services and Goods that would have a lighter tax would be. Air conditioning and heating, Automobile repair, Meat and poultry, Vegetables, Baby Products, Female Products. Plus MORE!! Low income, Retired people or people with disabilities on a fixed income below $25,000.00 would be able to qualify for a TAX Rebate. These rebates could be added to your Social Security Checks monthly. So you CPA's out there don't fret, your careers are safe.

3.. Just get RID of the H1B1's. The USA has enough workers. The USA makes all kinds of excuses about how we in America do not have enough of a certain labor. Well, believe it or not. We do. People will train and go to school in order to have a better job. If industry needs people they find a way to get people. Look at nursing. Lack of nurses, Industry got creative and made it where people want to be nurses. It works!!!

4.. Get "MOM" back into the home to raise better children. If a family decides to raise a child or children and one of the parents decides to be a stay at home parent. Then the government should recognize this. If those children reach the age of 18 without having a federal crime next to their name. The parents should be rewarded at retirement. Give the stay at home person a Social Security Benefits.

5.. Make it where people can SAVE more of their money in accounts without penalty this or that. 401K, IRA, etc.. These confuse people and also have taken HITS from stock markets. And you CAN'T DO a thing about it because you will be penalized! You are basically being robbed legally. Watching your next egg fall apart why the fat cats get fatter.

BS.... Every corporation that sells stock should be forced by the GOV to sell those stocks DIRECTLY to a client. So IF you want 200 shares of ______. Then that corporation should sell you those shares. Every STOCK company should HAVE to pay dividends on a Quarterly basis. The MAX sell charge should be 2 percent. Bye Bye $9.00 trades for small sells.

6.. Cut the capital gains tax. For winning you pay a tax? Sheesh. They get you no matter what. Unless your gains are over $500,000.00 per year. NO TAX! Sell your modest house? NO TAX. Remember the person BUYING your home pays taxes. WHY should you have to pay tax for selling it!

7.. CUT Interest rates on loans. YEP YOU GOT IT! MAX Interest rate a credit card company or ANY ONE ELSE can charge should be 5 PERCENT! Nothing more, nothing less. Bankrupt is now a thing of the past for a lot of people!

8.. Price freeze on gasoline. $1.50 for reg. unlead. $1.60 on mid grade. $1.70 for High grade. AND $1.00 for Diesel...

9.. Companies that move labor out of the USA but still base their companies in the USA. HIKE THOSE TARIFFS or TAXES. Many companies received tax incentives from local governments to base their corporations in certain areas. Then those companies kill jobs by going overseas. NO MORE! Traitors!!!!!!!

10.. Make congress accountable. STOP the PORK! People in congress spend our money like water. Stop it! It should be a mark of TREASON for people in congress who misuse the American Peoples Money. Congress should only spend money on topics that would be for the welfare of the Nation as a WHOLE! No more government money for a "Rain forest in Iowa", No more money for "THE BIG DIG"

Security, Military, or Industry. To benefit ALL the people of the USA. Not just Iowa, Kansas, Texas, etc... You've wasted enough of our money and sent it overseas. It should be time for them to pay. DEARLY!!! Jail time!!!

11.. No more SHARING our industrial secrets. YES! It is happening. We develop something nationally and it is law that we must share the technology with foreign powers.

Last but not least.. Isn't CHINA a COMMUNIST country? Are they our ALLIE or FOE?

STOP empowering our enemies with American dollars.

Industrial espionage is happening. Put a stop to it!




1. back to work program? there are so many issues with this I can't even begin.

4. there should not be a reward for raising your own kids. nor should it be a requirement that someone stay at home provided the kid is still getting adequate parenting. (and I hope mom is in quotations to mean either father or mother.)

5. Stock is not sold by the company. stock is the company. the stock market is individuals and businesses selling and trading other companies. You cannot have a company regulate the sale of itself.

7. Low interest rates are what got us into this in the first place. high rates stabilize, low promote growth. Permanent low interest rates just promote frivolous spending and we end up right back here.

8. Economics 101: Setting a max price below the market price results in a supply shortage because at that level, demand exceeds the amount the company is willing to supply. not to mention that oil is traded on a world market so if oil goes up over $75 a barrel, the crude will actually cost more than the gas the consumers are pumping at $1.50.

9. 99% of the jobs that are exported are low-skill. these are the most likely to be unionized. therefore, in order to set requirements to keep jobs in this country, you have to eliminate the possibility of unionization of those industries and the incurred costs.

no photo
Sun 02/08/09 12:38 PM
The intelligence on this topic is amazing!!! Thank you for using your own words.....Real people!!! Real solutions!!!!bigsmile flowerforyou flowerforyou flowerforyou

damnitscloudy's photo
Sun 02/08/09 12:41 PM
In the words of a horrible lawyer commerical...


ITS MY MONEY, I NEED IT NOW!

Jess642's photo
Sun 02/08/09 12:41 PM
Ohhhmmmmmmmmmmm...and psssst! You have sand on your left cheek...:wink: laugh

Fanta46's photo
Sun 02/08/09 01:01 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Sun 02/08/09 01:02 PM

The intelligence on this topic is amazing!!! Thank you for using your own words.....Real people!!! Real solutions!!!!bigsmile flowerforyou flowerforyou flowerforyou


Im glad you think so gypsy!
Now where's that crown? I'm going to the pawn shop!
laugh laugh laugh laugh

RenoirGarland's photo
Sun 02/08/09 02:07 PM
Thanks for the reply.

Topic 1.. There ARE forms of this already. SBA....

Topic 4.. There SHOULD be a REWARD for raising quality children. But REALLY, IS this so much of a reward, or is it making it EQUALITY! We already give thousands of dollars to people who raise problems. Why not make it EQUAL RIGHTS for all.

Topic 5.. Then I guess many of the people in the executive branches of a business who receive shares JUST for being a CEO, CFO, etc... Also there HAVE been in the past companies that started by selling shares directly. And it's a proven WIN and WORKING relationship.

Topic 7.. WHAT? Low got us to this mess? Not really. Try manufacturing revenue by selling and reselling cr%^ paper as a real investment got us started to this mess.

Promotes GROWTH is BAD? Promotes spending is BAD? The economy works only because people spend money.

The way that companies give credit is one of the problems.
And should be addressed!!!

IF companies who give credit knew that their investments in those people had to be secure. Then less credit would be issued. People who make 40K a year wouldn't get 10 credit cards with spending limits leaps and bounds over their annual pay. It would squash the amount of credit that people have.

We need a cash and carry basis again. Amazing how people with little to no credit have homes, buy cars, and feed their families with no credit.

Topic 8.. That would be really great if it where true in the fuel business. Fortunately the numbers on profits and data that the public is informed to even sees what is going on. PLUS my family has been in gasoline since 1976.

Topic 9.. Don't confuse someone making $10.00-$15.00 per hour doing a support center for D$%^ or H& or even a phone company with a union. everyone probably knows at least 10 people or more that has worked for a support company. They NEVER where union in the computer industry here. But then again. I'm in a right to work state.

PLUS look at many unions. A LOT of them work for the people and the companies. Believe it or not a bag boy at a "certain" grocery store is union. But he isn't being paid $20.00 per hour, It's min. wage.


transientmind's photo
Sun 02/08/09 04:50 PM
Edited by transientmind on Sun 02/08/09 05:13 PM

1.. To hell with this stimulus crud. The way that congress is spending MY money, YOUR money is terrible. It's not stimulating anything.

Congress should put in place a "back to work" program. Small businesses that have 1 - 20 employees should receive a government stimulus where they can employ U.S. Citizens. To hell with unemployment benefit expansion. Give these businesses from $20,000.00 - $65.000.00 per employee. Unemployment goes down and people receive a paycheck. Business GROWS!

This also would work with NEW Businesses! The woman or man that thinks. "I have a great idea. Let's put it to work." But where can I get funding for employees.

Put the IRS to work. Let them cut the check for the employees bi-weekly. NO NEED for FED audits.

2.. Get RID of the IRS as we know it. Place a 20% FLAT TAX on MOST goods and services. Get rid of the massive amounts of paperwork. NO more W2 Forms!!!

Services and Goods that would have a lighter tax would be. Air conditioning and heating, Automobile repair, Meat and poultry, Vegetables, Baby Products, Female Products. Plus MORE!! Low income, Retired people or people with disabilities on a fixed income below $25,000.00 would be able to qualify for a TAX Rebate. These rebates could be added to your Social Security Checks monthly. So you CPA's out there don't fret, your careers are safe.

3.. Just get RID of the H1B1's. The USA has enough workers. The USA makes all kinds of excuses about how we in America do not have enough of a certain labor. Well, believe it or not. We do. People will train and go to school in order to have a better job. If industry needs people they find a way to get people. Look at nursing. Lack of nurses, Industry got creative and made it where people want to be nurses. It works!!!
I agree, down to this one. My version would be: find 'em, naturalize 'em, deport the ones who were illegally using welfare etc. and let the productive ones work to pay taxes like the rest of us.

Also, I cringe at 20%, since Tulsa/Sand Springs has a 9% sales tax but do see that it would be better if the income tax is nil. Why are we taxing prosperity? Why not tax narcotics, video games, things that are nice but not generally adding to the growth of society?

4.. Get "MOM" back into the home to raise better children. If a family decides to raise a child or children and one of the parents decides to be a stay at home parent. Then the government should recognize this. If those children reach the age of 18 without having a federal crime next to their name. The parents should be rewarded at retirement. Give the stay at home person a Social Security Benefits.
This is an interesting idea, though in this day and age, there are couples that are more comfortable with reversed roles.


5.. Make it where people can SAVE more of their money in accounts without penalty this or that. 401K, IRA, etc.. These confuse people and also have taken HITS from stock markets. And you CAN'T DO a thing about it because you will be penalized! You are basically being robbed legally. Watching your next egg fall apart why the fat cats get fatter.

BS.... Every corporation that sells stock should be forced by the GOV to sell those stocks DIRECTLY to a client. So IF you want 200 shares of ______. Then that corporation should sell you those shares. Every STOCK company should HAVE to pay dividends on a Quarterly basis. The MAX sell charge should be 2 percent. Bye Bye $9.00 trades for small sells.

6.. Cut the capital gains tax. For winning you pay a tax? Sheesh. They get you no matter what. Unless your gains are over $500,000.00 per year. NO TAX! Sell your modest house? NO TAX. Remember the person BUYING your home pays taxes. WHY should you have to pay tax for selling it!
I'd add a severance pay exemption, too. It's just stupid that a year+ worker should be taxed on the money that gets them to their next job.

7.. CUT Interest rates on loans. YEP YOU GOT IT! MAX Interest rate a credit card company or ANY ONE ELSE can charge should be 5 PERCENT! Nothing more, nothing less. Bankrupt is now a thing of the past for a lot of people!

8.. Price freeze on gasoline. $1.50 for reg. unlead. $1.60 on mid grade. $1.70 for High grade. AND $1.00 for Diesel...
Eh, it sounds great, I'm just wary of what it does to capitalism.
9.. Companies that move labor out of the USA but still base their companies in the USA. HIKE THOSE TARIFFS or TAXES. Many companies received tax incentives from local governments to base their corporations in certain areas. Then those companies kill jobs by going overseas. NO MORE! Traitors!!!!!!!

10.. Make congress accountable. STOP the PORK! People in congress spend our money like water. Stop it! It should be a mark of TREASON for people in congress who misuse the American Peoples Money. Congress should only spend money on topics that would be for the welfare of the Nation as a WHOLE! No more government money for a "Rain forest in Iowa", No more money for "THE BIG DIG"

Security, Military, or Industry. To benefit ALL the people of the USA. Not just Iowa, Kansas, Texas, etc... You've wasted enough of our money and sent it overseas. It should be time for them to pay. DEARLY!!! Jail time!!!
Fraud, embezzlement, yeah. Maybe make it something that keeps you from getting into another office, too. I always wondered why it takes a license to drive but politicians don't have one to be revoked.

11.. No more SHARING our industrial secrets. YES! It is happening. We develop something nationally and it is law that we must share the technology with foreign powers.

Last but not least.. Isn't CHINA a COMMUNIST country? Are they our ALLIE or FOE?

STOP empowering our enemies with American dollars.

Industrial espionage is happening. Put a stop to it!
Definitely, at very least- squelch the ones leaking through government. There are different kinds of national security, not all of them involve IEDs and guns.

AndrewAV's photo
Sun 02/08/09 07:24 PM
Edited by AndrewAV on Sun 02/08/09 07:26 PM

Thanks for the reply.

Topic 1.. There ARE forms of this already. SBA....

Topic 4.. There SHOULD be a REWARD for raising quality children. But REALLY, IS this so much of a reward, or is it making it EQUALITY! We already give thousands of dollars to people who raise problems. Why not make it EQUAL RIGHTS for all.


i never justified the support of parents that raise rotten kids either. We still should not give money to parents for THEIR decision to have kids. medical and the like for kids I can support because thay cannot accomplish that on their own. But this paying parents for doing part of their choice is wrong.


Topic 5.. Then I guess many of the people in the executive branches of a business who receive shares JUST for being a CEO, CFO, etc... Also there HAVE been in the past companies that started by selling shares directly. And it's a proven WIN and WORKING relationship.


Every company regulating their own sale is a disaster waiting to happen for the SEC that already has issues they can't handle. Madoff comes to mind. Having all trading done in one place allows fair and equal treatment under the law and allows for proper regulation of the system. While some companies sell their own stock directly, it is an employee only option as a retirement plan as far as I've seen. All public trading to my knowledge must be done on the stock market.



Topic 7.. WHAT? Low got us to this mess? Not really. Try manufacturing revenue by selling and reselling cr%^ paper as a real investment got us started to this mess.

Promotes GROWTH is BAD? Promotes spending is BAD? The economy works only because people spend money.

The way that companies give credit is one of the problems.
And should be addressed!!!

IF companies who give credit knew that their investments in those people had to be secure. Then less credit would be issued. People who make 40K a year wouldn't get 10 credit cards with spending limits leaps and bounds over their annual pay. It would squash the amount of credit that people have.

We need a cash and carry basis again. Amazing how people with little to no credit have homes, buy cars, and feed their families with no credit.


While I can't argue against going back to a cash basis, yes, leaving interest rates low promotes growth from the bottom, but as you reach the top, you run out of profitable clientele and a way to make a profit. banks sitting on money are losing money.

It's an extremely complicated process that there is no time for here, but basically, leaving rates low allows everyone easier access to credit. What happened for us was Greenspan left prime rates so low that those that had no business in the marketplace were getting credit. The reason was that banks lend to make money (interest). If the rate is low, they get less return on investment. Therefore, once all the qualified candidates get credit, they have to find new sources of income because they're still paying out interest to their customers. The only place to find new people to lend to is to look at those less qualified. If rates had been higher then the return would have been better (because most mortgages and loans are adjustable) and with the high interest rates, those that are now foreclosing due to ARMs would not have even been in the market. yes, the people are to blame as well as the banks, but this largely could have been avoided if the Fed had upped the rate a few points.

The other side is treasury notes and the marketplace. When rates are high, there is more borrowing from the Fed. Higher interest rates promote the purchase of treasury notes and bonds. These are longer term investments that are traded on the open market once issued so the income from those would have given the government more income as well.

Like I said, it's extremely complicated and I oversimplified it but that's the root of many of our problems.


Topic 8.. That would be really great if it where true in the fuel business. Fortunately the numbers on profits and data that the public is informed to even sees what is going on. PLUS my family has been in gasoline since 1976.


This isn't about a particular segment of business though - it's about the market and economics. Perfect example: what did OPEC do recently because of the dropping price of oil? they cut supply. The sale of gas? it's gone up since the price dropped. if you artificially cap the price, you get more demand than is supplied and we end up back in the 1970s.

In a barrel of oil, there are 42 US gallons. if oil is $75 a barrel, you're paying $1.78 per gallon of oil. guess what? if gas is $1.50 a gallon, the crude costs more than the gas (gallon per gallon) and you haven't even refined it yet. Oil is sold in new york and london on a world market - mostly because supply comes from all over the world. that means the world determines the price of oil, not the US. Us putting a price cap will have influence but once the oil costs more than the gas it produces, they will simply stop making gas since there is no potential to make any money because of the fixed price. So essentially, the demand goes over where it's profitable and there is a mass shortage so eventually, oil will drop again due to the American companies not buying. Then they start refining again and the process starts anew.

I don't know about you, but gas rationing is not my idea of good and I personally feel it's a bad business plan to sell a product for less than it takes to produce.


Topic 9.. Don't confuse someone making $10.00-$15.00 per hour doing a support center for D$%^ or H& or even a phone company with a union. everyone probably knows at least 10 people or more that has worked for a support company. They NEVER where union in the computer industry here. But then again. I'm in a right to work state.

PLUS look at many unions. A LOT of them work for the people and the companies. Believe it or not a bag boy at a "certain" grocery store is union. But he isn't being paid $20.00 per hour, It's min. wage.



but you're in a right to work state, i'm not. around here, bag boys make double-digit pay. this is the problem. if we weren't paying UAW workers what we do, the cost of cars would be less. if we weren't paying cashiers and bag boys what we do, groceries would be less. if all the fabricators weren't union (my buddy makes $30+ to weld pipes), construction would be less. unions are detrimental to the free market because they give the worker an unfair advantage. the owner cannot just stop the shop or there'd be hell to pay. if the union goes on strike, it's getting their fair share. it's a double standard. the pay for a job should be determined just like everything else: the price that the market bears.