Struggle is the father of all things. It is not by the principles of humanity that man lives or is able to preserve himself above the animal world, but solely by means of the most brutal struggle.

If you wanna struggle thats up to you. I want an easy wealthy life myself.

What i ment by that is all the great inventions where made in times of struggle think about it. I already at the top of my profession at 20 and i did it by always moving foward and ignoring my own personal feelings

Not ALL the great inventions, but i know what you mean.

However, you can quote Hitler all you like but at the end of the day he was a nutjob and its not a good idea to trust his words to closely.

Solutions people!!! Not whether or not this guy is a nazi!!!


What about those people who will be without jobs because their jobs are directly affected by import/export???

We need new Public Works Projects to employ some the jobless people get them out there fixing the roadnetwork then they will atleast be making some money insted of blowing a massive amount of money that will end up doing nothing to help us.

Sit on the deck smoking fine cigars and drinking homemade beer. Watch local channels and ditch the cable. Ride a bike or car pool. Don't fart so much unless you like the warmer weather. (I do. Piferrrt!)Have sex at least six times per week. Good exercise. Eat out daily. The girls love it.

The problem with the economy is that it was destined to fail. In 1913 we instituted the Federal Reserve Bank, which is a private business, to be in charge of our currency. This means, every dollar printed is put into circulation by charging interest. That means, without a constantly growing debt you will not have enough money to pay off the debt. This explains why our deficit is so large, and ever increasing, and why it can never be paid off (since 1913 anyways). But when it doesn't grow fast enough to cover the interest, the system will crash. That is what is happening now.

There is also a fractional reserve system in the U.S., which gives value to debt, not money. When you take out a loan to pay for something you are not spending anyone's deposit. Instead you are spending fake money. Money the bank just simply types into the computer. Our fractional reserve is a 10 to 1 ratio i believe. This means that literally 90% of the money in the U.S. doesn't actually exist.

In 1977 congress voted to no longer back the dollar with gold or silver (which is illegal according to our original constitution). This is so our economy willlast just a little longer since they can merely print money now without finding gold and inject it into the economy in any amount,at any time. The side affect, of course, is inflation. Inflation is a tax place upon everyone, of every class, who uses U.S. currency.

Enough of the history lesson.

You can't fix the broken economy without completely abolishing our federal reserve bank. That way, debts can be paid off without causing depressions. The longer we wait, the worse off we will be when we finally decide to fix things, or it just plain collapses.

So

step 1. Abolish our central bank.

step 2. Get rid of our fractional reserve system, so debt can be paid off.

Step 3. To keep government spending in check we need to follow our forefathers' advice and back our money with something (gold, silver, infastructure).

More history:

JFK knew this. This is why he passed and signed executive order 11110. Ironically he was shot five months later and that order is not being exercised.

The first national bank was established just before Thomas Jefferson got into office. He was the first president to get rid of our national bank.

Andrew Jackson got rid of the second national bank. Ironically he believed his wife was murdered by "corrupt beaurocrats". Andrew Jackson is the only president in history to actually pay off our national debt.

Here's a drawback... Fixing the system will throw us into an exponentially deeper depression than we ever had. However, after a year or two we should recover from it. If we can keep this system going, and PROPERLY educate younger generations about it, we should have a stable economy pretty much indefinitely.

(The only problem with education is the fact that it's controlled by the department of education. Step 4, abolish the department of education. )

I think it's time to stop asking future generations to pay a higher price for what we should pay for right now. For our children we all need to come together and endure a year or two of misery so prosperity can be allowed. There is no other way.

I live in the city. This summer I planted a large garden in my backyard for the first time. The veggies tasted better then the store veggies.

That's great, but I don't have a yard!

But I know the maintance man really well, if I am still here, I might ask to put some planters up on the roof.

Well...it won't happen with no yard.

My parents have a yard but didn't want to deal with a garden.
My mom grew tomato plants in large planters. She liked that.
I planted radishes in a planter for them. They didn't work.

Just a thought. Cut and paste is valuable for those with limited time. If I come across and interesting article I want to get feedback on or it answers a question better than I could have in half the time, it becomes valuable as tool. The only draw back is when links to that article are not provided with the cut and paste, so that others can view the source of that information.

Anyone that posts regularly to a forum such as this, knows how time consuming it came be to sift through all the new threads and respond. I don't always have that kind of time on my hands, so cut and paste has it's place. After a while you can note those that never share their own thoughts, but use cut and past exclusively. I don't have a problem with it because they might paste something I might never have come across. So I would hate to lose that source completely...

As to this subject, I would say buying American is fine, if there's anything left made in America. I do not buying what I don't need and especially on credit. I don't consume more than I need and I reuse what I do have if that is practical. I suck at gardening but I am getting a bit better at having started 2 years ago, it does help but not huge unless your really good at it.

When my neighbors or I need something fixed we all pitch in to help each other, doing things that would normally cost us big time if we had to hire out for it. It's time consuming but with half my income nonexistent, I have time more than money, so we help eachother.... can't think of anything else at the moment.

Absolutely. I think the folks who will have the toughest time are those used to spending beyond their means. They will assume that when the economy turns around it will go back to what it was. I think we better hope that it does not, and that we don't repeat our mistakes as consumers with no limits. Having endured the last 8 years and also making some typical mistakes, I self adjusted about 5 years ago, cutting back to basics, paying off everything, and though I was not able to start putting money away, I saved big time by paying what I did have off early. My pain will be limited in the next couple of years because I took steps after the housing meltdown. My income is much less but having cut back I need less.

And don't panic as Lynann said I think is huge. If people panic they do stupid things. I know, because I have been there in past years.

Anyone that has ever put their back out knows what I am talking about. The minute you feel the initial pain, breath deep and relax, if you panic your body tenses and the time to recover is twice as long. What used to take almost 2 weeks to heal now takes less than 24 hours, at the most 48.

Same in this situation, if you panic you will do things that are not in your best interest, or you will give up and do nothing. Breath, relax concentrate on the easiest things to solve first and move to the next, always thinking about better ways to do what you always do, but smarter...

Ok, I'm gonna be your Nostradamus:

USA will suffer more for the upcoming years, more cutbacks more job losses more bankruptcies.

Eventually, There will be a large number of people unemployed and dissatisfied, since there is a point, when the government just can't pay anymore unemployment benefits.

I think the government is worried about the "possibility" of a civil unrest and protests, so don't be surprised if it happens at some places. (or more places).

Trust me, many of us (luckier ones) will be driving older used cars and wearing some clothes you'd thrown out already and suddenly you gonna eat foods that you pushed away before.

Hey, one good thing is, there will be less obesity and people gonna live healthier, especially if you gotta walk a lot more or bycicle around instead of driving.

One thing I noticed, the public transportation plain sux in USA, save the big cities. This would save soooo much money, you won't believe it. Less money for road constructions, less clogged traffic, less accidents. They better off start laying some railroads or come up with something, because the way the things are going, a lot of us will have to bus or train around.
It's good for social life too, you just don't know how many people you'd meet on buses and trains or sit and read a book or even browse the net, instead of driving alone in a giant SUV and trying not to kill yourself or idle in a traffic jam for hours, and the only thing rising is your blood pressure.

I'm talking from experience, believe me.

Should take France or Japan for example with 170mile/hr magnetic trains , or the rest of the world, where there is a bycicle lane marked out specifically for bycicles and streets closed down from traffic, no cars allowed.




I'm trying to figure out whether or not big cities suffer more or the country first, since many will be sitting home without a job. The advantage of the city is, that even now, there are many jobs still available (correct me if I'm wrong) due to the sheer number of businesses running just like before.

There is the problem growing of relying on large markets, even small towns and villages, and they can only hire a given number, while others have to figure out what to do and how. Obviously construction and trade business isn't going well, since less companies or families building, they are already out of jobs.
Banks, offices, all cutting back on people, so I'd be worried if I would only look for jobs in the secretarial or bank teller fields, although information technology related jobs are still out there, but hearing about even Microsoft is cutting back and laying down people doesn't make me sleep comfortably.

So what to do?

I don't know, If I would know, I would be rich by now most likely.

Maybe some advices:
-Lower your expectations. Don't think that things gonna return to normal...nevermind it wasn't really normal in the past decade or so anyway.
-Don't spend too much, especially don't put it on credit cards that you don't even know how you gonna pay them back.
-Watch out for your bank, keep an eye on the news, make sure your bank is still reliable, the best bet is to go for smaller less known banks than the big ones. (I wish the big ones would disappear, really! they are the culprits!)
-Invest some of your money (if you got any) in purchasing lands. You probably didn't even hear this from anyone else. Yeah, buy lands. I kid you not, if you can't afford to buy lands in USA, buy foreign lands!
Hey Bush did it, he bought like thousands of acres in Paraguay, he might know something.

One of my friend invested some money, buying up lands, including fishery lakes and even an entire street of houses and I don't know how many 100 of acres of land, good to grow whatever you want and he is lending it out in Europe.

You can't go wrong with owning land. It's always gonna be less and less, no matter what and the prices gonna go up.

You hear the "buy gold" or "buy Euro", don't listen...if there is nobody to buy your gold or your euro, you are still phucked. By things that are value, as I said, lands, real estate, property, whatever. They are always gonna be a value, because people want to live somewhere, people want to drink water and eat food. Can't eat the gold neither the Euro.

If you got money and job right now, buy some preserve food, really. Can't hurt to have canned food and dried food, it's still cheap, try not to go for the refrigerated food too much, because - and God forbid- the electric company goes ****, you're screwed unless you got a generator.
yeah, make sure you got a power generator too. This is all for emergency, always prepare for the worst, I'm not saying you gonna be relying on these, but it makes you feel a lot safer, trust me.

Getting pissed off is easy, taking stock of your own personal situation and doing something about it is not only constructive but feels great too. I refuse to do the gloom and doom thing. We have been living on borrowed money too long, it's time we got realistic about money and our lives and what is really important.

We are still a great people, capable of anything we set our minds to. If this generation isn't up to it, then we forgot to teach them something about going through difficult times. But I have faith in this generation and my own to do what has to be done.

I dont have time to respond to your entire post so i will just briefly pick on this point.

Im not convinced you are correct. Public transportation is not at all cheap. In the UK it costs us billions and billions and billions to maintain it. We are a small country and the infrastructure has been developed since maybe the past hundred years or so.

The USA is HUGE and the existing infrastructure is poor(in general). I can only imagine that developing any kind of decent public transport system would cost so much it would wanna make you cry.

And anyway, its no quick fix to this kind of problem, it would take years to begin and decades to complete.

The USA needs to stop spending so much cash fighting people around the world before much else.

I have no intention of living miserably for the next two years. I intend to change my outlook on the next two years. After reading so many posts that sound as if the world is ending, it made more determined not to develop a self defeating mood.

We can either view the future in terms of lack or we can view it in terms of change. Not Obama's change. Our own. Each of us has a different set of circumstances and each of us will do it differently according to our own talents, if that is the right word.

But as a people we will either change our lives to weather the next two years or we will b$tch and moan and do nothing. Those that want to weather gracefully will get moving, those that don't, well ya just got go around them I guess.

I don't know if there is any such thing as collective consciousness, but I think we all affect each other with our attitudes. If we assume it's hard it will be..

Ever notice in the past 8 years, Bush and his administration always using the words, It's hard work, it's very hard work......

I can't tell you how irritated that made me to hear that, but I had a choice, listen to that and act like everything is hard, or use my imagination and act like things are a challenge and worth pursuing..

my take on the economy is.....Take all I can

what I can do.....Take and Take some more....

Options? Take a fifth of Jack to bed when I cant take anymore......


just sayin.......