Absolutly....

Actually, the poorer you are, the less healthy you eat. Healthy foods cost more - fresh fruits, etc. It's cheaper to live on high fat meat and noodles. Poorer people gain weight from that diet.

No argument there....

You know Winx, I am not all that convinced that you can't eat healthy on less money. I've done it. I think americans have been so used to the 'amount of food they eat' that they buy for quantity rather than quality. I can buy less but buy better, sticking to the vegatable isles. I eat less meat onl once a week, and I buy one junk food item, knowing I will run out of that quick and be to lazy to go back for more junk.. lol I could be wrong, but I think I have figured it out for myself anyway.

Ok – no cut and paste but I will say that my ideas for a more proper use of the ‘billions’ of dollars the federal government is creating as a ‘stimulus’ were inspired by a Booklet by Jacque Fresco called “Designing the Future”.

Obama gained a lot of votes due to his insistence that ‘alternative’ energy sources need to be explored. How much of all these billions have been applied to this great need? Fresco brings up several sources of untapped clean energy, just to name a few that Fresco outlines: wind, wave and tidal action, ocean currents, what about putting money into fusion energy research and what about Geothermal power, already proven to be used successfully? There are many more options I have only named a few from the list. BUT NONE to my knowledge is currently on the list of any of our Governing officials.

I would suggest taking all the billions of this second round of ‘stimulus’ and creating a “workforce” to get this going. Imaging unlimited clean energy provided by naturally occurring universally available resources, available to every part of the world.

Oh yes, there is a problem, if the government were to do this, who would PROFIT? Oh my, no one would profit in a capitalist society? How profane is that. Let’s say “we” the U.S. developed several of these methods, actually PAID United States citizens to work toward that end. Let’s say a few of these sources were harnessed and utilized by all U.S. Citizens. Now let’s say that other countries like China and Japan and Russia and England wanted this ability, the technological no how OR even better – wanted to utilize what we have put in place? The following words come to mind.
“Forgive us our debt and we would forgive those whose debt we hold”... eerie, sounds familiar.

Anyway, saving ourselves in such a manner could, in the end, unite many countries as we would have to work together to see that such energy sources would be utilized world wide. THEN we might pool more of our “UNITED” funds to end other scarcities, food, clean water and medicine to all the people, not just those of a single nation.

Of course that’s futuristic thinking – but what the hell is this stimulus thing all about anyway, if not to procure a better future, on the smallest of scales – why not aim higher? The workforce required for such a project would be immense – what? Create jobs JUST for Americans? Who would think such a thing, they are just minions, slave to the almighty dollar and all the debt our government can create in the name of the capitalist powers that continue to hold the reigns.

I have a child. I make a point of getting healthier foods. I feel like it does cost more. Low fat hamburger costs quite a bit more than high fat. Fish isn't cheap and that's healthy. I have noticed that the prices of apples, etc. have risen. We do have meat with every dinner.

Maybe you can let me know how you're doing it.

It all burns..........

Yes they are. That only works in working economies. Explain to me this...

How can an economy work if %100 of the money being put into circulation has to be paid back with interest? Do the math please.

You will find that our economy wont work. Most of these bubble bursts sympoms of a disease infecting our monetary system.

It is possible to make things better for a couple more years, or to even "pull out" of this recession. But you can only do that by increasing our deficit drastically. The temporary fix will not come from where money is invested either. It is the debt we need to keep going. The problem is we will reach a point when we cannot afford to pay the interest on our debt.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

I did a degree in Economics years ago, and i know i used to beable to explain this then.

Instead now you are gonna get a botched answer which is probably wrong:

When a government puts money into an economy it generates more value than the total amount of this money.

John gets 1000
John spends 1000 in Bobs shop, Bob pays tax on this.
Bob Spends his, say 950, in Marys shop, Mary pays tax on it.
etc etc




Nope, i dont think thats right..

Geez Winx, forgive me, I wasn't obviously thinking. I didn't account for more than one person.. Ack, how stupid.. Anyway I am exhausted right now, but I will get back with you tomorrow, maybe we can share some tips.. I eat pretty much the same stuff all the time. Mostly veggies as I am not a very good cook.. in fact I am not a good cook, period, so I have to make things I can't screw up.. lol so I stick with things that are healthy and easy to put together quickly. Not being a good cook might be to my advantage too, since I wouldn't necessarily by the things needed to do a fancier meal..

Ack your depressing me.. grin! That means time to end the day and sleep..

You're looking at hard dollars. The actual cash that's in circulation is not currently worth the amount you hold. The $1,000 is not worth $1,000 when John gets it. It is worth $1,000 minus the debt owed against it. Think of it this way, the "cold cash" or the 'stimulus cash' is never actually 'made', it is a bookkeeping creation. It serves one purpose - to provide the banks with a reserve large enough to accommodate loans. Loans are not cash either, they are more bookkeeping entries. Yes, John may get a check for $1,000 and he may take it to the bank and get cash, but what he gets LOOKS like $1,000 but only spends like $760 (guess, as I'm not sure what the current debt on a dollar is)

The point is, the moment the government goes into debt via federal loans, the less our dollar is worth. So not only does our dollar buy less, but producst cost more and taxes must be increased to cover the Federal interest owed. 'RECESSION/DEPRESSION'cycle. So far, historically,each recession or depression leaves in it wake ever greater populations of poor and poverty stricken people.

As I asked before, how long far can we continue to go into this kind of debt before we are a country so profoundly affected with poverty, that we become a third world country?

That's the reason why I am so totally against the whole bail out situation. To me the only practical use of any NEW stimulus - would be if the government backed a new technelogical advancment, with the stimulus money,that would create A LOT of jobs in the United States market, such as clean alternative energy sources.

Not!

If America becomes a third world country, Canada and the rest of the world will become a fourth, fifth, and sixth world countries.
This will maintain us above them and thus we will still be a first world country.

Oh No you didnt!!!

I believe you are trying to explain the "Fractional Reserve System". That means, bank gets $1,000 from the FED at x interest. Then the bank has legal permission to loan out $10,000 against the government money. After someone else deposits that $10,000 check, the bank can take $9,000 of that money and loan it to someone else, and so on until almost $100,000 is loaned out from that original $1,000 reserve. Basically 90% of the money we use in our country doesnt exist....literally. But hey, it kept our system going just a bit longer...

Here is the problem economics wont explain. The only way we can keep the system going is to keep our overal debt increasing. This can't be a slow increase either. Lets say $2,000 was loaned out this month, next month we need $4,000, than $8,000 the next month, than $16,000 the next month and so on, just to sustain our current system. Our deficit has to keep growing, as well as the total debt for americans. In the 1950's the total debt for all americans was about a trillion dollars. Now its over 50 trillion dollars. In 50 more years it will have to be 2 quadrillion dollarsjust to keep up. Kinda nuts huh?

There will be a breaking point in this system. It will happen when we as a world can no longer afford to pay the interest given to us by the banks.

This is why you can't charge interest for every dollar you put into the system. [Principal / (principal + interest)] Do the math. No matter what any economics teacher says, you can't prove that statement wrong. I challenge anyone here to solve that equation in a way that makes it work.

I think that it's time that we owned up to our part in this pile of sh*t.

-Confusing capitalism with consumerism, then flirting with communism.
-Buying volume products rather than "heirloom."
-Getting stuck with grid electricity and oil. The Model T was made to run on homemade ethanol, the original diesel motor (patented by Mr. Diesel) was biodiesel, it ran on vegetable oil... also to be made at home. We used to be self-sufficient.
-Living on credit. Period.
-Knowing that what we eat is junk, but doing it anyway.
-Sending kids to a stupid school, where stupid politicians run stupid curriculum's so that kids that they've made stupid- won't fail.
-Arguing and voting along party lines for any reason, seriously, grow up and get your own opinion.
-Butting in to anything anywhere without getting our own stuff straight first. That applies to moral dictation, political finger-pointing etc.
-Blaming everything on everyone else.

It's a mess that we all made, not the Taliban, not the Mexicans, the welfare queens, not American pigs or Euro-trash, the gay people, the religious right, the black people, white people, rich people, Chinese or Russians; not even the tax-raising, pork-barreling, buttinski law-making, weaselly politicians.

We f*cked up.
{/rant}

Yes I did.
And furthermore, its time to take the Queens Crown to the pawn shop...

That's not stupid, Boo.

well said