Did you ever wonder what came out of the 911 attack.? Good always comes out over evil. After the 911 people united and came together all over the world. It demonstrated what Love of Neighbor truly defines.

God does not cause evil,( man does). God permits it for reasons unknown to any of us.
His reasons are mysterious,however through faith we accept his will.

Sally.

Can you prove god exists?



Yes, I understood, and still understand, the bible. I also see it has nothing more than fictional stories made up to control man.



Science has already disproven many of the stories in the bible.



You realize that the only real "evidence" of Jesus is the bible, right? Also many religions(that predate Christianity) have a god story similar to the Jesus story.

Horus, an Egyptian God is one.



Science has already proven many things in the bible to be false, and one day, we will understand why medical "miracles" just happen. Just because we don't know why they happened, doesn't make them miracles.

The bible is God breathed, so some stories we dont take as literal, however the bible has two main meanings, which is Faith in God and his commandments and or laws. This is Gods word and the way we as believers should abide.

Science has taken their own theory to refute the bible,however once again its just theory. Science cannot explain to reiterate how miracles and many other unnatural phenomenons or occurances happen. They never will! You cannot refute the many witnesses at the crucifixtion and resurrection of Christ. These men were non- Christians who were eye witnesses to this event. Even if I could prove to you there is a God, would you want to know him anyway.???

Why did you lose your faith, if you dont mind me asking.?

Sally

If the stories are from god, why aren't you taking them literally?



Everything can be explained logically. Saying something is a miracle is a cop-out to doing the work to figure it out.



Before you can claim them as witnesses, you first have to prove they exist.



Since the god of the bible is a jealous, megalomaniac, No.



The actions of supposed "Men of God". And myself opening my eyes to what religion really does in this world.

I try to abide in Gods word by keeping the commandments and following his word with Faith.
No one can explain logically anything regarding
Gods miracles on earth. To claim a medical miracle is a miracle from God is no cop-out , its just that, and there is no other explanation for it.

There is much proof on the witnesses of biblical times ,along with Biblical Historians, the Church Fathers, etc, to ignore them by claiming these people dont exist is absurd.

God is not a jealous God, He is merciful and kind,just because bad things happen to good people does not justify him as an evil God. Man
make evil. Everything in life is a test of faith and morals. No one can explain why bad things happen to good people,but there is a reason.
You cant give God up because life did not work out
the way you wanted it too. Its just life, we are in charge of our own will. Its our choice how we live. God does not force his will upon any of us.
Then we are judged, good and bad.!

Sally

It is a cop-out, because you are not trying to understand it, you aren't asking questions. Because of your faith in "God", you are willing to stay at your current level of intelligence.



And all those people, Are connected to the church in some way, so of course they have a reason to lie, and claim that as fact.



Right. "God" is merciful, and kind. That's why his death-toll in the bible is more than Satan's. Right?



Where did I say that I don't believe in God because life "didn't work out the way I wanted to"? You do realize that God is the leading cause of death today, right?

So, go ahead and believe, the blood of those killed in his name, what be on my hands.

Now, you are putting words in my mouth. I never once stated that Hitler was a representative of Christians. All I have stated is that Hitler WAS A Christian.


What must you do to be saved?

Say the right things.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified. -- Matthew 12:37

Do the right things.
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life. -- John 5:29
For you render to each one according to his works. -- Psalm 62:12

I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. -- Jeremiah 17:10

When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. -- Ezekiel 18:27

For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16.27

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. -- Matthew 25:34-36

Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. -- Romans 2:6, 13

For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. -- 2 Corinthians 5:10

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15

The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17

I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13


Believe the right things.
A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. -- Romans 3:28
Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. -- Romans 5:1

A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. -- Galatians 2:16

For by grace are ye saved through faith. -- Ephesians 2:8


Do and believe the right things.
Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- James 2:17

Do the will of God.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. -- Matthew 7:21

Believe in Jesus.
Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -- John 3:16
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life -- John 3:36

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. -- Acts 16:31


Be born again.
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. -- John 3:3

Hear the words of Jesus and believe in whoever sent him.
He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life. -- John 5:24

Be born of water and the spirit.
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. -- John 3:5

Be washed by the Holy Ghost.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. -- Titus 3:5

Be converted and become like a little child.
Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 18:3

Believe and be baptized.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. -- Mark 16:16

Call upon the name of the Lord.
Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. -- Acts 2:21

Confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.
If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. -- Romans 10:9

Follow the commandments (at least some of them).
If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -- Matthew 19:17-19
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life. -- Revelation 22:14


Keep the commandments (at least some of them), give all your money to the poor, and follow Jesus.
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? ... Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
...thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.-- Luke 18:18-22

Keep the commandments and the faith of Jesus.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. -- Revelation 14:12

Endure to the end.
He that endureth to the end shall be saved. -- Matthew 10:22, 24:13, Mark 13:13

Wait until you die and then get baptized.
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? -- 1 Corinthians 15:29

Don't judge other people.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged. -- Matthew 7:1, Lk.6:37

Have lots of babies.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing. -- 1 Timothy 2:14-15

Don't defile yourself with women. (Be a virgin male.)
...the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. -- Revelation 14:3-4

Be given by the Father and come to the Son.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. -- John 6:37

Be chosen (predestinated) by God.
For many are called, but few are chosen. -- Matthew 22:14
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate ... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.-- Romans 8:29-30

For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. -- Romans 9:11

He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us ... according to the good pleasure of his will. -- Ephesians 1:4-5


Be poor, not rich.
Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. -- Matthew 19:23-24
But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. -- Luke 6:24

Ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. -- James 5:1


Be more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees.
Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 5:20

Eat Jesus' body and blood.
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. -- John 6:53-54

Just ask.
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.-- Matthew 7:7-8

All you need is love.
Love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God. -- 1 John 4:7
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. -- Luke 10:26

Hi Inkracer,
How is it that God is the leading cause of death?.,God created us, with free will, we make the choice. Its men that created evil here on earth. God did not want death and destruction. He only wanted Harmony, Peace and Love. Why do you blame God for the worlds mess.? It is not his "death toll in the bible", yet once again its MANS,with not be able to resist satan and his tricks and temptations.

With regard to your statment on the witnesses connected to the church, 2000 years ago the testimonies were not from Christians, yet by Jews and others who had no reason to testify such events occured. In fact, they risked death by claiming such happenings. The biblical Scholars and the Historians you claim as being part of the church or movement are not all Christians,in fact a lot of them are skeptics,however they have much evidence and proof to back up with their claims.

Have a good day.
Sally

The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Witch Trails. Even today, the war on Terror has been made into a Religious war, because of statements made by Bush, and the fact that the insurgents and the Taliban, are killing soldiers in the name of "Allah"(which is ultimately just another name for God)



So, when Someone is claiming to have "proof" that a book may be right, that is perfectly acceptable.

When someone else, using the Scientific Method, and continually test and re-test the theories, and have actual proof that the book is wrong, they can't be trusted.

When the overall majority that include Historians and Scholars claim a book is correct,and there proof to back this up then yes it is acceptable.
You believe in books about science and evolution. or books in general on life and facts. How can you refute History in general.

People who kill in the name of God are not Christians or followers of Gods word. These people are extremist fundamentalist. Dont confuse the hypocrisy of such individuals.

Christianity emerged from Judaism which is considered a triune religious connective relationship. With Jewish teaching, Christians are accepted as worshipping the same God, and many Christians emphasize common historical heritage and religious continuity with the lineage of the Jews.


Sally

I was wondering when you were going to get to the "No True Scotsman" argument.

Of my examples I listed, The Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition, were carried out by the church.

I will tell you the same thing that I have told the others who have used that argument. It is not up to you to determine who is "True" and who isn't. IF there is a God it is up to him, and him alone.



100% of people can say that same thing, and still be wrong.
(Need prove of that? There was a time when Everyone thought the earth was flat)
The bible is not correct simply because it has numbers on it's side. There is no proof the book is correct. The only "proof" that has been given for Jesus' existence are passages from the bible! Like I have said before, there are "gods", from religious beliefs that predates Christianity, that follow the same story as Jesus.

Your right, who am I to judge you or anyone, I am only conveying my beliefs.

There is not one Christian alive today who participated in the Inquisition. They all died centuries ago. Every one of them had to face God. God knows the heart of every individual involved and justice has been served.!!

Pope John Paul 11 admitted the wrong actions of the Catholic Church throughout history. This spirit of repentance, entails a firm determination to seek in the future ways to bear witness to the truth that are in keeping with the Gospel and Gods word.

Sally

Those people who are supposed to be "witnesses" to Jesus' crucifixion, have all been dead for 2000 year(if they ever truly lived at all)
Nothing in writing is an actual eye-witness account.

I'm not going to state that non of these events occured, but I find that there is one thing in common with your list. You are jusging Christainity by those who use it's name to abuse it. I do not doubt the tennets of christainity by those events, I doubt the claim of those who did them of being christains.

You can see where I come to this conclusion.

I will give you an example I have from life to illustrate this.

I am a Director, and when I hold auditions - everyone who comes into the theater tells me: "I am an actor/actress". Then they get to prove it to me by reading in a scene - or doing a few improvisations. After doing this for over 25 years, I can stae unequivically that not all who walk into the audition claiming to be performers - are so. At least a third of them have never performed outside of a high school production, or an acting class. Usually, the group bils down to asmall handful of individuals who demonstrate the necessary skills and talent to earn my trust that they'll execute the role I give them. These are the "actors". Not because they claimed to be, but because their actions supported their claim. And to refute the "it's just your opinion" claim, I have a casting committee in my auditions, so I'm not the only opinion determining if one is an actor or not.

Another example of this - is just watch the first auditions of "American Idol", and all those who "claim" to be singers, and are anything but. As soon as they open their mouth's - their actions support, or disprove their claims.

Do you really think the actions of the Catholic church during the crusades were representative of every Catholic on the planet? And that Jesus cndoned those actions? Where is there evidence of that in the New Testament?

Every single prophet was an eye witness. Every prophocey in the bible has come to pass. I believe you need to look outside the box for just one moment.

Sally

Charles Manson did the same thing when he sent Tex and the gang out to murder innocents.

What do you think - did Charles Manson follow a directive of God, or did he use pretext and find a passage to support his wild idea's?

Let's put your understanding of Christianity to the test.

So, if "God" tells you to do something that society tells us is bad, then you are crazy, and not a "True" believer.

If "god" tells you to do something that society accepts as good, then you are a "True" Believer.



But, "God" has a plan for everyone. Who are you, a mere mortal of a man, to question the Grand Plan that "God" has for us all?



You tell us skeptics that we are picking and choosing what it is to be a Christian, yet you are doing the very same thing.

You continue to clim that science has proven the bible wrong. I know of no such claims that have empirical evidence to support it. What are you refering to?

Excellant. You've clearly demonstrated that Hitler was NOT a christain. Ordering the murder of over 3 million Jews is clear demonstration that he went against every single passage you've sited.

So what criteria are you attempting to site from this post that he was, since you've clearly demonstrated that he wasn't? Why are you holding onto this lie?

And why did you stop with these passages only?

What about

2 Peter 1:5 "For this reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self control, perseverance; and to perseverence, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten tht he has been cleansed from his past sins."

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether or not they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does bot acknowledgecJesus is not from God.

James 3: 13 Who is wise and understanding amoung you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearst, do not boast about ti or deny the truth. Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven, but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you will find disorder and every evil practice.


I'm having a hard time being convinced that Hitler was a Christian.

God doesn't "tell" anyone anything. That's the point. It's already been said - that is why prophecy ended with John and Revelations. so the response to all of your questions is "No - not accrding to scripture".

There isn't a picking and chosing of being a christian - it is there in scripture to be gleened. It doesn't change with perception, or supposition - it is what it is. It's unchanging. That is why the "No True Scotsman" analogy is fallacious, the two are non-analogous for this reason. What changes is the level of understanding and intelligence of those who are determining their subjective interpretations.

Which is why I've asked you to demonstrate from the New Testament what makes Hitler a Christain.
I'm quite clear what the scriptures say that demonstrate why he isn't - I just don't see what supports him as being one, since we know by Hitory what Hitlers's actions were.