Ive already given out items to view and research and you phoo phooed it
all.

I think its very telling that you 2 guys have phoo phooed great American
war Vets that dont believe this governments story either, but sometimes
stubburn minds think alike.

___________________________________________


David L. Griscom, PhD – Research physicist, retired in 2001 from Naval
Research Laboratory (NRL) in Washington, DC, after 33 years service.
Fellow of the American Physical Society. Fulbright-García Robles Fellow
at Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México in Mexico City (1997).
Visiting professorships of research at the Universities of Paris and
Saint-Etienne, France, and Tokyo Institute of Technology (2000 - 2003).
Adjunct Professor of Materials Science and Engineering, University of
Arizona (2004 - 2005). Winner of the 1993 N.F. Mott Award sponsored by
the Journal of Non-Crystalline Solids, the 1995 Otto Schott Award
offered by the Carl-Zeiss-Stiftung (Germany), a 1996 Outstanding
Graduate School Alumnus Award at Brown University, and the 1997 Sigma Xi
Pure Science Award at NRL. Principal author of 109 of his 185 published
works, a body of work which is highly cited by his peers. Officially
credited with largest number of papers (5) by any author on list of 100
most cited articles authored at NRL between 1973 and 1988.
Personal blog 1/5/07: "David Ray Griffin has web-published a splendid,
highly footnoted account of The Destruction of the World Trade Center:
Why the Official Account Cannot Be True: This scholarly work, rich in
eyewitness accounts, includes 11 separate pieces of evidence that the
World Trade Center towers 1, 2 [each 1300+ feet tall, 110 stories], and
7 [610 feet tall, 47 stories, and not hit by an airplane] were brought
down by explosives.

... I implore my fellow physicists and engineers who may have the time,
expertise, and (ideally) supercomputer access to get to work on the
physics of the World Trade Center collapses and publish their findings
in refereed journals like, say, the Journal of Applied Physics.

The issue of knowing who was really behind the 9/11 attacks is of
paramount importance to the future of our country, because the
“official” assumption that it was the work of 19 Arab amateurs (1) does
not match the available facts and (2) has led directly to the deplorable
Patriot Act, the illegal Iraq war, NSA spying on ordinary Americans,
repudiation of the Geneva Conventions, and the repeal of habeas corpus
(a fundamental point of law that has been with us since the signing of
the Magna Carta in 1215).

Surely these Orwellian consequences of public ignorance constitute more
than sufficient motivation for any patriotic American physicist or
engineer to join the search for 9/11 Truth!" http://impactglassman


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement:
"Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization
consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in
uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."


Bio: http://impactglassman.blogspot.com/

I am a vet.

I am not poo pooing anything.

I have given you the honor of checking out what you posted. My opinion
does not agree with yours... Oh well, that is life.

As far as the original persons behind the theroies you have cut and
pasted from web sites all over the world.

That I will not sugar coat. Not poo Way beyond that someone has
delibrately stired the **** in the outhouse.

I havent cut and pasted from links all over the place. There is just 1
site that has over 400+ vets, engineers, professors and military men who
say the governments story is full of BS.


______________________________________________

Lon J. Waters, PhD Mathematics – Former staff member of the Maui High
Performance Computing Center, a U.S. Department of Defense funded high
performance computing and research facility. Former staff member of
Sandia National Laboratories, a major research facility of the National
Nuclear Security Administration, U.S. Department of Energy. Member
Advisory Editorial Board, Journal of 9/11 Studies.

Signatory of Petition of Solidarity to the Attorney General of New York
for a new independent grand jury investigation of 9/11 11/19/04: "We the
undersigned: a) think that there is ample evidence and probable cause
to believe that many grave and still unresolved crimes were committed by
US officials prior to, during and after the events of 9/11; b) observe
that most of these apparent crimes, including but not limited to
abetment of mass murder, criminal negligence, insider trading, and
obstruction of justice fall well within the jurisdiction of New York's
top law enforcement officials ..." http://www.justicefor911.org


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement:
"Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization
consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in
uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."

Post the link. People who want to can go read the things you been
cuttin and pastin from that web site.

I can and have allready read some of them.

I want to hear your voice not the voice of people whos postings I can
read for my self.

yes you already said that.

But I kind of like re-visitng what these guys have to say.

sorry if your bored.

____________________________________________

Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates,
CIA, responsible for preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB) for
Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S.
Army Intelligence Officer.

Video 7/22/06: "I think at simplest terms, there’s a cover-up. The
9/11 report is a joke. The question is: What’s being covered up? Is it
gross malfeasance, gross negligence, misfeasance? … Now there are a
whole bunch of unanswered questions. And the reason they’re unanswered
is because this administration will not answer the questions. … I just
want to reassert, what Scott [Ritter, former Major in the U.S. Marines
Corps, former Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special
Commission in Iraq] said and this is the bottom line for me, just as
Hitler in 1933 cynically exploited the burning of the parliament
building, the Reichstag, this is exactly what our President did in
exploiting 9/11. The cynical way in which he played on our trauma, used
it to justify attacking, making a war of aggression on a country that he
knew had nothing to do with 9/11. That suffices for me, I think Scott
is exactly right, that’s certainly an impeachable offense."
http://video.google


Endorsement of 9/11 and American Empire (Vol I) – Intellectuals Speak
Out: "It has long been clear that the Bush-Cheney administration
cynically exploited the attacks of 9/11 to promote its imperial designs.
But the present volume confronts us with compelling evidence for an even
more disturbing conclusion: that the 9/11 attacks were themselves
orchestrated by this administration precisely so they could be thus
exploited. If this is true, it is not merely the case, as the Downing
Street memos show, that the stated reason for attacking Iraq was a lie.
It is also the case that the whole 'war on terror' was based on a prior
deception." http://www.interlinkbooks.com


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. … As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article



Bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_mcgovern

I think it is telling that 2 people have quietly debunked most of what
you are pushing.

Did you take another look at the photos of the pentagon strike? Did you
attempt to measure using the vehicles in front of the damaged areas as a
point of reference?

I have responded to you. Please grant me the same honor. Check as I
have asked and let me know what YOU think.

Yes I did, but I didnt see any boeing 757 plane parts, no engines, no
luggage, no tail sections, no landing gear, no blood or body parts, no
windows of the plane and the hole was way to small. Where are the wings?
Then I gave you the link of CNN that had a reporter on the spot saying
there is nothing that looks like any kind of a plane.


_____________________________________________


William Christison – Former National Intelligence Officer and Director
of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA
veteran.

Essay Stop Belittling the Theories About September 11 8/14/06: "I now
think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not
unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us
believe. … An airliner almost certainly did not hit The Pentagon. … The
North and South Towers of the World Trade Center almost certainly did
not collapse and fall to earth because hijacked aircraft hit them."
http://www.dissidentvoice.org


Article 9/7/06: "David Griffin believes this all was totally an inside
job - I've got to say I think that it was too. … I have since decided
that....at least some elements in this US government had contributed in
some way or other to causing 9/11 to happen or at least allowing it to
happen. … The reason that the two towers in New York actually collapsed
and fell all the way to the ground was controlled explosions rather than
just being hit by two airplanes. … All of the characteristics of these
demolitions show that they almost had to have been controlled
explosions." http://www.prisonplanet.com


Audio interview 9/29/06: "We very seriously need an entirely new very
high level and truly independent investigation of the events of 9/11. I
think you almost have to look at the 9/11 Commission Report as a joke
and not a serious piece of analysis at all. It gave the administration
what it wanted to support their official story on what happened on the
date of September 11 and that's all they cared about. ... It's a
monstrous crime. Absolutely a monstrous crime."
http://www.electricpolitics.com


Bio: http://www.amalpress.com/

The planes I saw crashing into the towers looked pretty real to me.
Thousands of people saw the planes in person and have given reports
about it. Superheated steel melts and loses its strength before that.
Drop several tons on top of a slab of concrete that is suspended on
overheated steel, its likely to knock the concrete off its steel
supports. As it gathers weight and momentum it would be likely to break
steel supports that were not even heated. Most likely a rudimentary
examination of the engineering details will show the actual method of
destruction was just what was said originally. E = MC^2 Mass and speed
vs static structural support, something has got to give.

well I kind of went over that with another link.
http://www.physics911.net/closerlook


There is a principle in physics called the Law of Conservation of
Energy. There is also the Law of Conservation of Momentum. I’ll briefly
explain how these principles work. Let’s assume there are two identical
Honda Civics on the freeway. One is sitting in neutral at a standstill
(0 mph). The other is coasting at 60 mph. The second Honda slams into
the back of the first one. The first Honda will then instantaneously be
going much faster than it was, and the second will instantaneously be
going much slower than it was.

This is how the principle works in the horizontal direction, and it
works the same in the vertical direction, with the added constant force
of gravity added to it. Jim Hoffman, a professional scientist published
in several peer-reviewed scientific journals, took a long look at all of
this. He calculated that even if the structure itself offered no
resistance, that is to say, even if the 110 floors of each tower were
hovering in mid-air, the “pancake” theory would still have taken a
minimum of 15.5 seconds to reach the ground. So, even if the building
essentially didn’t exist, if it provided no resistance at all to the
collapse, just the floors hitting each other and causing each other to
decelerate would’ve taken 15.5 seconds to reach the ground.

But of course the buildings did exist. They had stood for over 30 years.
The floors weren’t hovering in mid-air. So how did the building provide
no resistance?

Yet another observation one makes in watching the collapsing towers is
the huge dust clouds and debris, including steel beams, that were thrown
hundreds of feet out horizontally from the towers as they fell. If we
are to believe the pancake theory, this amount of scattering debris,
fine pulverized concrete dust, and sheetrock powder would clearly
indicate massive resistance to the vertical collapse. So there is an
impossible conflict. You either have a miraculous, historical,
instantaneous, catastrophic failure that occurs within a fraction of a
second of freefall and that kicks out little dust, or you have a solid,
hefty building that remains virtually unaffected after a massive,
speeding projectile hits it. You either have a house of cards or a house
of bricks. The building either resists its collapse or it doesn’t.

And we know the WTC Towers were made of reinforced steel and concrete
that would act much more like bricks than cards.

Thus, put simply, the floors could not have been pancaking. The
buildings fell too quickly. The floors must all have been falling
simultaneously to reach the ground in such a short amount of time. But
how?


What About the Fires?
The official story maintains that fires weakened the buildings. Jet fuel
supposedly burned so hot it began to melt the steel columns supporting
the towers. But steel-framed skyscrapers have never collapsed from fire,
since they’re built from steel that doesn’t melt below 2750 degrees
Fahrenheit. No fuel, not even jet fuel, which is really just refined
kerosene, will burn hotter than 1500 degrees Fahrenheit.
Steel-framed skyscrapers have never collapsed from fire.

It’s also odd that WTC7, which wasn’t hit by an airplane or by any
significant debris, collapsed in strikingly similar fashion to the Twin
Towers. There wasn’t even any jet fuel or kerosene burning in WTC7.

According to the 9-11 report by the Federal Emergency Management Agency
(FEMA), "the specifics of the fires in WTC7 and how they caused the
building to collapse remain unknown at this tim."

Aside from its startling nonchalance, this statement makes a rather
profound assumption. Again, no building prior to 9-11, in the 100-plus
year history of steel frame buildings, had ever collapsed from fire.

The flattened ruins are WTC1 and WTC2 (in the middle), and WTC7 (at the
bottom)

This fact was known to firemen. Hence their unflinching rush up into the
skyscrapers to put out the fire. Partly it was bravery, to be sure, but
partly it was concrete knowledge that skyscrapers do not collapse due to
fire. Yet after 100 years, three collapsed in one day.

Did the FEMA investigators not think to ask the New York City Fire
Department how they thought the fire started, or how the fires could
have caused the astounding, historical collapse? This would seem to be
an elementary step in any investigation about a fire. Instead, they
chose to leave the cause of the collapse “unknown.”


______________________________________________

Robert David Steele (Vivas) – U.S. Marine Corps infantry and
intelligence officer for twenty years. Second-ranking civilian (GS-14)
in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence from 1988 - 1992 and a member of the
Adjunct Faculty of Marine Corps University. Also former clandestine
services case officer with the CIA. 25-year U.S. military and
intelligence career. Currently Founder and CEO of OSS.net and a
proponent of Open Source Intelligence.

Essay 10/7/06: Review of Webster Tarpley's 9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made
in the USA. "I am forced to conclude that 9/11 was at a minimum allowed
to happen as a pretext for war, and I am forced to conclude that there
is sufficient evidence to indict (not necessarily convict) **** Cheney,
Karl Rove and others of a neo-conservative neo-Nazi coup d'etat and
kick-off of the clash of civilizations. ...

This is, without question, the most important modern reference on
state-sponsored terrorism, and also the reference that most pointedly
suggests that select rogue elements within the US Government, most
likely led by **** Cheney with the assistance of George Tenet, Buzzy
Kronguard, and others close to the Wall Street gangs, are the most
guilty of state-sponsored terrorism....

I sit here, a 54-year old, liberally educated, two graduate degrees, war
college, a life overseas, 150 IQ or so, the number #1 Amazon reviewer
for non-fiction, a former Marine Corps infantry officer, a former CIA
clandestine case officer, founder of the Marine Corps Intelligence
Center, and I have to tell anyone who cares to read this: I believe it.
I believe it enough to want a full investigation that passes the smell
test of the 9/11 families as well as objective outside observers."
http://www.amazon.com


Article 10/27/06: "While Steele stopped short of saying 9/11 was a
complete inside job, he agreed that the evidence points to the
overwhelming complicity of the Bush administration.

"The U.S. government did not properly investigate this and there are
more rocks to be turned over," said Steele adding, "I'm absolutely
certain that WTC 7 [610 feet tall, 47 stories, and not hit by an
airplane] was brought down by controlled demolition and that as far as
I'm concerned means that this case has not been properly investigated.
There's no way that building could have come down without controlled
demolition." http://www.prisonplanet


Bio:http://en.wikipedia.org

In my opion it sounds like someone sits at the computer all day long
looking for reason's to blame his government for something. I also
believe that the government may have done something to piss this person
off. As far as the 400+ ppl on that website, I can go make a website and
put names of a bunch of ppl on it and say they think this and that.
Everything that you are saying has been answered by the government and
alot of it examined by citizens. In the end it has all came out to be
what the government has said. If no plane hit the pentagon then where is
the plane that was suppose to of hit it? Where are all the ppl that are
suppose to be dead from that incident? I would like you to go tell the
family members of these ppl, the child of that mother or father that
died in the pentagon crash and tell them that the plane never hit. Tell
them that their family member is still alive, but because of some
government cover up they are being held against their will in some
facility and thats why they cant see them. So I would appreciate it if
you would just shut the f*** up about no plane hitting the pentagon. If
no plane did then pls tell me where is my uncle?

9/11 Conspirecy - Even a Caveman Figred it
Out.................WWW.blacklistednews.com/view.asp.?ID=2593 Listed
under Humor - Comedy

Well there is a Lawer representing some of the families that dont buy
this governments story.

His name is Stanley Hilton
Lawyer representing 400 9-11 victims' family members


and like I said before to any of you please tell me if any of these 400+
war vets, military men and women, professors and engineer's backgound is
not crediable.


_______________________________________


Melvin A. Goodman, PhD – Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the
Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 - 1990. Senior Analyst at the Bureau
of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974 - 1976. Professor
of International Security at the National War College 1986 - 2004.
Currently Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy and
Adjunct Professor of International Relations at Johns Hopkins
University. Author and co-author of several books on international
relations, including: Wars of Eduard Shevardnadze, Gorbachev's Retreat:
The Third World, and Bush League Diplomacy: How the Neoconservatives Are
Putting the World at Risk.

Congressional briefing testimony 7/22/05: "I think the 9/11 Commission
has taught me that we need to be extremely rigorous and extremely
tenacious in pursuing that truth, because there is a corporate mentality
in this country that is working against allowing the truth to surface,
even in tragedies, such as the 9/11 tragedy. ...

I want to talk about the [9/11] Commission itself, about the flawed
process of the Commission and finally about the conflict of interest
within the Commission that is extremely important to understand the
failure of the Commission." http://www.vt911.org


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. … As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article.php



Bio: http://ciponline.org/biographies

I do believe your facts are skewed.

a 1500 horsepower ATG turbine puts out 1500 degree heat at the exaust
point (after the exaust has been passed through a baffle and cooled).
This engine uses straight diesel. When burning JP4 type fuel (jet fuel)
or even straight kerosene the exaust is much hotter.

When my house burned the fire department recorded tempatures in execess
of 1800 degrees. There was no jet fuel there only plaster, wood and
everything I owned. If that can burn at 1800 degrees then I am sure jet
fuel can burn much hotter.

the problem with posting information from a web site (without checking
their facts) is the possability of getting erroneous data. (or
delibrately skewed data).

so why did you not answer any of my questions? This guy is about as bad
as a someone running for office. Never answers the questions and throws
out a bunck of bs.

I asked you if you check out the web site Poet provided.

your response

'Yes I did, but I didnt see any boeing 757 plane parts, no engines, no
luggage, no tail sections, no landing gear, no blood or body parts, no
windows of the plane and the hole was way to small. Where are the wings?
Then I gave you the link of CNN that had a reporter on the spot saying
there is nothing that looks like any kind of a plane.'

Makes me wonder if you actuall checked. Third picture down on left side
of screen. Even has a person standing in front of the wreckage which by
perspective shows a much bigger area of damage the the 18 feet claimed.

I must go for a while good day to you sir.

well I dont believe what you just posted either. Could you back it up
and give more support than my link was lying?






__________________________________________

Robert Baer – Former CIA Case Officer, Specialist in the Middle East,
Directorate of Operations. Awarded Career Intelligence Medal. 21-year
CIA veteran. Best-selling author, screenwriter, and actor. Academy
Award-winning Syriana was based on Baer's memoir See No Evil. Writer
and on-camera presenter for Emmy Award-nominated documentary Cult of the
Suicide Bomber. Author of two nonfiction books about CIA operations,
See No Evil (2002) and Sleeping with the Devil (2004) and the novel Blow
the House Down (2007).

Audio Interview 6/9/06: Thom Hartmann: "Are you of the opinion there was
an aspect of 'inside job' to 9/11 within the U.S. government?"

Baer: "There is that possibility, the evidence points at it."

Hartmann: "And why is it not being investigated?"

Baer: "Why isn't the WMD story being investigated? Why hasn't anybody
been held accountable for 9/11? We held people accountable after Pearl
Harbor. Why has there been no change in command? Why have there been no
political repercussions? Why has there been no -- any sort of exposure
on this? It really makes you wonder." http://www.911blog.


Essay 1/12/02: "Did bin Laden act alone, through his own al-Qaida
network, in launching the attacks? About that I'm far more certain and
emphatic: no." http://books.guardian.co


Bio: http://www.concertideas.com

1500 hp ATG turbine is the engine used in the M1 Abrams MBT. It is a
jet engine.
I instructed tank crews on said Main Battle Tank from 1983-1985.

I know what I am speaking of because I worked with it on a daily basis.
I did not google it. I lived it.

That answer your question.

I was in Achaffenberg when the first one came out. we were assigned to
guard it on display for the public, They would not let anyone, even us
go within 10 meters of it.

I was at Vilseck.

19K2H

Well AB since you lived it and believe this government go out and get
you that million dollars.

http://uncensored.co.nz/archives/2005/11/17/1-million-contest-to-prove-pancake-wtc-theory/

actually there are several rewards in different catagories, all you have
to do is prove the governments story is correct and you could be a multi
multi millionaire and if you dont want the money, give it to charity.


_________________________________________


Sibel D. Edmonds – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. Former Language
Translation Specialist, performing translations for counterterrorism and
counterintelligence operations, FBI.

Letter to 9/11 Commission 8/1/04 : "I find your report seriously flawed
in its failure to address serious intelligence issues that I am aware
of, which have been confirmed, and which as a witness to the commission,
I made you aware of. Thus, I must assume that other serious issues that
I am not aware of were in the same manner omitted from your report.
These omissions cast doubt on the validity of your report and therefore
on its conclusions and recommendations." http://www.com


Article 7/22/04: "My translations of the 9/11 intercepts included
[terrorist] money laundering, detailed and date-specific information ...
if they were to do real investigations, we would see several significant
high-level criminal prosecutions in this country [the US] ... and
believe me, they will do everything to cover this up."
http://www.guardian.co.uk


Bio: http://www.nswbc.org/nswbc_staff.htm