i dont know if he lives in a cave or not...i didnt say he did. i just
think he must have at one time when he was on the run. but i guess bush
just wants to keep the s-it going on in iraq until he gets out of office
and then hand the mess over to the next pres.

We're in Iraq because we shoulda been fighting that war over a DECADE
ago. Don't ignore the first Iraq war. Don't ignore the treaty (although
Saddam was happy to). Don't ignore the fact that Clinton ignored those
things, too. Don't ignore us giving Saddam years to comply to the treaty
he signed in the first place.

You can't (fairly) blame Bush for Iraq. All he did was step up and do
what shoulda been done almost a decade earlier.

THAT is why we're in Iraq. Unfortunately.

I know there are a lot of them. I also know how to search out
information.

I have read the 911 reports. I have checked out the counter claims.

I simply draw a different conclusion than you do.

Are we being lied to YES... From all sides.

well Im not an expert and neither is anyone here, but I support these
400+ guys over you and your friend and Bush and Clinton.

______________________________________


John J. Farmer, Jr., Senior Counsel, 9/11 Commission – Former Attorney
General of the State of New Jersey. Former Chief Counsel to former New
Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman. Former Commissioner of the
State Commission of Investigations. Former Assistant U.S. Attorney for
the District of New Jersey.

Washington Post Article 8/2/06 - "Some staff members and commissioners
of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how
it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a
deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a
reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources
involved in the debate. ...

"I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was
described," John Farmer, a former New Jersey attorney general who led
the staff inquiry into events on Sept. 11, said in a recent interview.
"The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to
us and the public for two years. ... This is not spin. This is not
true." http://www.washingtonpost


Editor's note: Despite the many public statements by 9/11 Commissioners
and staff members acknowledging they were repeatedly lied to, not a
single person has ever been charged, tried, or even reprimanded for
lying to the 9/11 Commission.


Bio: http://www.klng.com/professionals/detail

And I'll support the thousands of others who found no problems at all.
Seems fair to me.

FACT... the bush family and binladden family was friends when all this
9-11 stuff went down! thats why the white house let them fly out right
away when all air was grounded!

I suppose you have even one modicrum of proof of this that doesn't
involve a website that anyone can doctor to look like anything?

no, we dont have any proof, just some 19 guys with box-cutters kicked
our asses, and since our borders are open you should hide in a bunker,
cuzz these guys have row boats and more box-cutters. LOL

_________________________________

Peter Rundlet, Counsel for the 9/11 Commission – Former Associate
Counsel to President Clinton. Former White House Fellow, serving in the
Office of the Chief of Staff to President Clinton. Currently Vice
President for National Security and International Affairs, Center for
American Progress.

Essay 9/30/06: "A mixture of shock, anger, and sadness overcame me when
I read about revelations in Bob Woodward’s new book about a special
surprise visit that George Tenet and his counterterrorism chief Cofer
Black made to Condi Rice, also on July 10, 2001 ...

If true, it is shocking that the administration failed to heed such an
overwhelming alert from the two officials in the best position to know.
Many, many questions need to be asked and answered about this revelation
— questions that the 9/11 Commission would have asked, had the
Commission been told about this significant meeting. Suspiciously, the
Commissioners and the staff investigating the administration’s actions
prior to 9/11 were never informed of the meeting.

The Commission interviewed Condoleezza Rice privately and during public
testimony; it interviewed George Tenet three times privately and during
public testimony; and Cofer Black was also interviewed privately and
publicly. All of them were obligated to tell the truth. Apparently, none
of them described this meeting, the purpose of which clearly was central
to the Commission’s investigation. Moreover, document requests to both
the White House and to the CIA should have revealed the fact that this
meeting took place. Now, more than two years after the release of the
Commission’s report, we learn of this meeting from Bob Woodward.

Was it covered up? It is hard to come to a different conclusion. ... At
a minimum, the withholding of information about this meeting is an
outrage. Very possibly, someone committed a crime. And worst of all,
they failed to stop the plot." http://think


Editor's note: Despite the many public statements by 9/11 Commissioners
and staff members acknowledging they were repeatedly lied to, not a
single person has ever been charged, tried, or even reprimanded for
lying to the 9/11 Commission.


Bio: http://www.americanprogress.orgl

nartist....WTF are you talking about??????????????????

while im at it you can take bush and shove him up your A-S!

We already explained how that worked. You wanna play denial of the
obvious, have fun. But don't pretend like we haven't given you all the
proof a rational person needs.

yes, they have explained.

thats the problem.

_______________________________________-


William Rodriguez – WTC survivor. An American Building Maintenance
employee for twenty years, responsible for inspection and maintenance at
the World Trade Center, who held the master key for the stairs. He was
the last person to leave the building on September 11 and has been
credited with saving many lives. For his efforts, he received the
National Hero Award from the Senate of Puerto Rico. Founder, Hispanic
Victims Group.

Article 6/24/05: Regarding an explosion in the sub-basement of the World
Trade Center North Tower on 9/11, prior to any airplane impact. "When I
heard the sound of the explosion, the floor beneath my feet vibrated,
the walls started cracking and it everything started shaking," said
Rodriguez, who was huddled together with at least 14 other people in the
office. ...[Editor's note: At this point, Mr. Rodriguez was in
sub-basement B1 of the North Tower, approximately 1,100 feet below the
airplane's impact point at floors 93 to 98.]

"Seconds after the first massive explosion below in the basement still
rattled the floor, I hear another explosion from way above," said
Rodriguez. "Although I was unaware at the time, this was the airplane
hitting the tower, it occurred moments after the first explosion."

But before Rodriguez had time to think, co-worker Felipe David stormed
into the basement office with severe burns on his face and arms,
screaming for help and yelling "explosion! explosion! explosion!"

David had been in front of a nearby freight elevator on sub-level 1
about 400 feet from the office when fire burst out of the elevator
shaft, causing his injuries.

"He was burned terribly," said Rodriguez. "The skin was hanging off his
hands and arms. His injuries couldn't have come from the airplane above,
but only from a massive explosion below. I don’t care what the
government says, what scientists say. I saw a man burned terribly from a
fire that was caused from an explosion below.

"I know there were explosives placed below the trade center. I helped a
man to safety who is living proof, living proof the government story is
a lie and a cover-up." http://www.arcticbeacon


Editor's note: Despite hundreds of eyewitness reports of explosions
throughout the Twin Towers by doomed victims, survivors, emergency
service personnel, reporters, and bystanders, the 9/11 Commission Report
contains virtually no mention of them and entirely ignores them in its
conclusions. Graeme MacQueen's analysis of oral histories of 9/11 taken
from 503 FDNY survivors reveals more than 100 FDNY personnel reported
explosions in the Twin Towers.


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. … As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article.php


Signatory 11/19/04: Complaint filed with the Attorney General, State of
New York for a new independent grand jury investigation of 9/11.

"We, the complainant signatories below, petition the Attorney General of
New York, on behalf of millions of New Yorkers who also call for a
fearless independent inquiry; for the sake of residents, workers, and
business owners in New York—most particularly in and near "Ground Zero";
and also on behalf of other Americans who have lost employees, friends,
and family members as well as health, business, and personal assets and
civil, privacy, and other rights in the events of September 11, 2001 and
their aftermath.

We approach your office as concerned citizens desiring to bring to light
the truth about the events of 9/11." http://www.justicefor911.org


Personal website: http://www.911keymaster.com/

america killed more indians than hitler did jews.
i think its ignorent to think that it is an impossibility that the
goverment may have done it

well if you go back and re-read the thread you can get 3 million dollars
just to prove this governments story true.

It has been up for years, and no takers, cuzz nobody can.

but some silly hold-outs still love this government and grovel to the
system dont want to believe it.

________________________________________


Phillip Morelli – WTC survivor. Construction worker at the World Trade
Center for seven years .
Video interview: "At 8:30 he says he was headed for level B-4 in Tower
One [North Tower], four stories below ground.

"... As I'm walking by the main freight car of the building, in the
corridor, that's when I got blown. I mean the impact of the explosion,
from whatever happened, it threw me to the floor. And that's when
everything started happening. It knocked me right to the floor. You
didn't know what it was. Of course, you're assuming something fell over
on the loading dock, something very heavy, something very big. You
don't know what happened. And all of a sudden you just felt the floor
moving. ... [Editor's note: At this point, Mr. Morelli was in the
sub-basement of the North Tower, approximately 1,100 feet below the
airplane's point of impact at floors 93 to 98.]

I was racing -- I was going towards the bathroom. All of a sudden. I
opened the door. I didn't know it was a bathroom And all of a sudden
a big impact happened again. And all the ceiling tiles were falling
down. The light fixtures were falling, swinging out of the ceiling.
And I come running out the door and everything, the walls were down.
And I now started running towards the parking lots."

Nearly 100 floors below where the first plane hit Phil felt the
devastating impact. ...

"As I ran to the parking lots, you know, I mean, everybody screaming ...
There was a lot of smoke down there. ... You gotta go clear across the
whole -- from One to Two World Trade Center. That's the way you gotta
run.

And then all of a sudden it happened all over again. Building Two got
hit. I don't know that. I just know something else hit us to the floor.
Right in the basement you felt it. The walls were caving in. Everything
that was going on. I know of people that got killed in the basement. I
know of people that got broken legs in the basement. People got
reconstructive surgery because the walls hit them in the face."
http://real.ny1.com


Editor's note: Despite hundreds of eyewitness reports of explosions
throughout the Twin Towers by doomed victims, survivors, emergency
service personnel, reporters, and bystanders, the 9/11 Commission Report
contains virtually no mention of them and entirely ignores them in its
conclusions. Graeme MacQueen's analysis of oral histories of 9/11 taken
from 503 FDNY survivors reveals more than 100 FDNY personnel reported
explosions in the Twin Towers.

Oh, it's not impossible that they did it.

But it's impossible that they did it the way these conspiracy nuts have
tried to describe.

And moreso, it's impossible that they could hide it this well.

And beyond that- it's impossible that they could fool every credible
expert on the subject of superstructures- yet screwed up so badly that a
bunch of uneducated kids on the internet could punch holes in it.


It's a matter of "means", "motive" and "opportunity". In this case, the
accusor was holding a smoking gun, but the victim died by poisoning, and
had no bullet wounds. And if there was opportunity, no one's been able
to prove it. The only thing that holds up is the "motive"- and that's
just not enough.

yep....impossible.....

just CRAZY box-cutter guys kicked our asses


____________________________________

Mike Pecoraro – WTC survivor. Stationary Engineer who performed
services in all of the buildings at the World Trade Center.

Article Chief Engineer 2002: Mike Pecoraro and a co-worker were working
in the sub-basement of the North Tower when the first airplane hit.
"They had been told to stay where they were and "sit tight" until the
Assistant Chief got back to them. By this time, however, the room they
were working in began to fill with a white smoke. "We smelled kerosene,"
Mike recalled, "I was thinking maybe a car fire was upstairs", referring
to the parking garage located below grade in the tower but above the
deep space where they were working. [Editor's note: At this point, Mr.
Pecoraro was in the sub-basement of the North Tower, approximately 1,100
feet below the airplane's impact point at floors 93 to 98.]

The two decided to ascend the stairs to the C level, to a small machine
shop where Vito Deleo and David Williams were supposed to be working.
When the two arrived at the C level, they found the machine shop gone.

"There was nothing there but rubble, " Mike said. "We're talking about a
50 ton hydraulic press? gone!" The two began yelling for their
co-workers, but there was no answer. They saw a perfect line of smoke
streaming through the air. "You could stand here," he said, "and two
inches over you couldn't breathe. We couldn't see through the smoke so
we started screaming." But there was still no answer.

The two made their way to the parking garage, but found that it, too,
was gone. "There were no walls, there was rubble on the floor, and you
can't see anything" he said. [Editor's note: At this point, Mr.
Pecoraro was in the basement of the North Tower, approximately 1,100
feet below the airplane's point of impact at floors 93 to 98.]

They decided to ascend two more levels to the building's lobby. As they
ascended to the B Level, one floor above, they were astonished to see a
steel and concrete fire door that weighed about 300 pounds, wrinkled up
"like a piece of aluminum foil" and lying on the floor. "They got us
again," Mike told his co-worker, referring to the terrorist attack at
the center in 1993. Having been through that bombing, Mike recalled
seeing similar things happen to the building's structure. He was
convinced a bomb had gone off in the building. Mike walked through the
open doorway and found two people lying on the floor. One was a female
Carpenter and the other an Elevator Operator. They were both badly
burned and injured." http://www.chiefengineer.org


Editor's note: Despite hundreds of eyewitness reports of explosions
throughout the Twin Towers by doomed victims, survivors, emergency
service personnel, reporters, and bystanders, the 9/11 Commission Report
contains virtually no mention of them and entirely ignores them in its
conclusions. Graeme MacQueen's analysis of oral histories of 9/11 taken
from 503 FDNY survivors reveals more than 100 FDNY personnel reported
explosions in the Twin Towers.

And yet everyone here who has any understanding of how hijackings used
to work (aka- before 9/11)- have already explained that boxcutters were
not an unheard of hijacking method. It's happened before. It's WORKED
before. Just never was it immediately followed by a suicide crash into a
skyscraper.

but...the funny thing is that war vets that flyed the 757s would never
give up their planes to teenagers with box-cutters. thats a joke.

__________________________________________


Kenneth Johannemann – WTC survivor. An American Building Maintenance
employee at the World Trade Center.
Statement to television reporter 9/11/01: Mr. Johannemann was in the
basement of the North Tower when the first plane impacted. "I was right
there. I was down in the basement. Came down. All of a sudden the
elevator blew up. Smoke. I dragged a guy out. His skin was hanging
off and I dragged him out and I helped him out to the ambulance."
[Editor's note: At this point, Mr. Johannemann was in the basement of
the North Tower, approximately 1,100 feet below the airplane's point of
impact at floors 93 to 98.]
http://www.prisonplanet.com


Article 9/12/01: "Kenny Johannemann was in the the number one [North]
tower of the World Trade centre, waiting for the elevator in the
basement. [Editor's note: At this point, Mr. Johannemann was in the
basement of the North Tower, approximately 1,100 feet below the
airplane's point of impact at floors 93 to 98.]

It was shift-change time, the time of day when the building is most
crowded.

"The lift door exploded open. There was a man inside half burnt. His
skin was hanging off.

"I dragged him out of the lift and somebody helped me get him out for
the building." http://www.smh.com.au


Editor's note: Despite hundreds of eyewitness reports of explosions
throughout the Twin Towers by doomed victims, survivors, emergency
service personnel, reporters, and bystanders, the 9/11 Commission Report
contains virtually no mention of them and entirely ignores them in its
conclusions. Graeme MacQueen's analysis of oral histories of 9/11 taken
from 503 FDNY survivors reveals more than 100 FDNY personnel reported
explosions in the Twin Towers.

In order to avoid killing innocent hostages? I'd certainly hope they
would. They were pilots, they weren't in their combat ready status
anymore. And even if they were- they could be absolutely sure of
passengers dying. Either by the terrorists, or by the panic.


They did the best they could. Exactly what every civilian airline says
to do in that situation. Or, at least, said. After 9/11- the game is
completely different.

yep, the best...yep

___________________________


Joe Shearin – WTC survivor. Assistant Chief Engineer at the World Trade
Center.

Article Chief Engineer 2002: "That morning a note had been left for Joe
by the Chief Engineer of the midnight to 8 a.m. shift telling him that a
tenant on the 38th floor wanted to see him as early as possible. So
after distributing the work orders to his staff, he entered one of the
tower's elevator cars and headed up into the building.

On the 38th floor, Joe Shearin exited the elevator and began his walk
down the hallway to meet with the tenant who had requested to see him.
About 50 feet down the hallway, he heard a loud explosion and was lifted
into the air. "I can't even tell you how far I traveled," he recalled.
When he landed, people were already coming out of their offices into the
hallway. "They were screaming, hollering," he said. "They were asking
what they should do and where they should go". Joe directed them down
the stairwells and out of the building. [Editor's note: At this point,
Mr. Shearin was on the 38th floor of the North Tower, approximately 650
feet below the airplane's point of impact at floors 93 to 98.]

What Joe first believed was that an equipment room on the 43rd floor,
which had an electrical substation, had blown up. He proceeded up the 5
floors to that level. Upon reaching the 43rd floor, "there were patches
of ceiling that was just down on the floor, water pipes were broken,
water was gushing like a brook or river that was just running down the
corridor of the machine room." [Editor's note: At this point, Mr.
Shearin was on the 43rd floor of the North Tower, approximately 600 feet
below the airplane's point of impact at floors 93 to
98.]http://www.chiefengineer.org


Editor's note: Despite hundreds of eyewitness reports of explosions
throughout the Twin Towers by doomed victims, survivors, emergency
service personnel, reporters, and bystanders, the 9/11 Commission Report
contains virtually no mention of them and entirely ignores them in its
conclusions. Graeme MacQueen's analysis of oral histories of 9/11 taken
from 503 FDNY survivors reveals more than 100 FDNY personnel reported
explosions in the Twin Towers.