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Topic: WARNING: Dangerous Concepts of Christianity!
Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Wed 01/28/09 11:29 PM
OrangeCat,Faith, Hope, and Love Faith, Hebrews 11 1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2. For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. All Christians if they are following Christ have that "want to" to tell others of Christ’s Salvation. Because at one point in time they were there were you are at. If the spirit hasn’t reached you yet. Nothing will make sense until you read the word of God or someone tells you of his Salvation. Christ does save soles and I will put a short verse for you. I would encourage the reading of the whole Bible. A good place to start would be John. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. What is the purpose of creating a system in which souls need saving? Free will. In that case, god also gave us free will to question his legitimacy and the legitimacy of his son.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Wed 01/28/09 11:34 PM
1.Logical Consistency 2.Empirical Adequacy 3.Experiential Relevance Do you truly feel that Christianity successfully demonstrates those 3 elements? Yes I do. Well we will just need to agree to disagree because far too many contradictions and inconsistencies have been revealed thus far on this forum as it relates to the bible for it to be the divine word of anything.

Nubby Joined Wed 01/07/09 Posts: 648	Wed 01/28/09 11:34 PM
OrangeCat,Faith, Hope, and Love Faith, Hebrews 11 1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2. For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. All Christians if they are following Christ have that "want to" to tell others of Christ’s Salvation. Because at one point in time they were there were you are at. If the spirit hasn’t reached you yet. Nothing will make sense until you read the word of God or someone tells you of his Salvation. Christ does save soles and I will put a short verse for you. I would encourage the reading of the whole Bible. A good place to start would be John. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. What is the purpose of creating a system in which souls need saving? Free will. In that case, god also gave us free will to question his legitimacy and the legitimacy of his son. Yes he did.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Wed 01/28/09 11:35 PM
So that means there should be no anger or resentment when we do so.

Nubby Joined Wed 01/07/09 Posts: 648	Wed 01/28/09 11:36 PM Edited by Nubby on Wed 01/28/09 11:37 PM
1.Logical Consistency 2.Empirical Adequacy 3.Experiential Relevance Do you truly feel that Christianity successfully demonstrates those 3 elements? Yes I do. Well we will just need to agree to disagree because far too many contradictions and inconsistencies have been revealed thus far on this forum as it relates to the bible for it to be the divine word of anything. I will answer 1 contradiction. Most of them are red herrings and can be thrown out. I dont want to waste my time with them. Give me your best one.

Nubby Joined Wed 01/07/09 Posts: 648	Wed 01/28/09 11:39 PM
So that means there should be no anger or resentment when we do so. If you ask He will reveal himself to you.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Wed 01/28/09 11:40 PM
So that means there should be no anger or resentment when we do so. If you ask He will reveal himself to you. No thank you. Thats all I need, some deity flashing me.

Nubby Joined Wed 01/07/09 Posts: 648	Wed 01/28/09 11:40 PM
1.Logical Consistency 2.Empirical Adequacy 3.Experiential Relevance Do you truly feel that Christianity successfully demonstrates those 3 elements? Yes I do. Well we will just need to agree to disagree because far too many contradictions and inconsistencies have been revealed thus far on this forum as it relates to the bible for it to be the divine word of anything. I will answer 1 contradiction. Most of them are red herrings and can be thrown out. I dont want to waste my time with them. Give me your best one. Give me the verses though, so I can look them up.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Wed 01/28/09 11:42 PM Edited by Krimsa on Wed 01/28/09 11:42 PM
I have yet to hear one of these contradictions cleared up totally or explained away. At the most we have decided it might have been a mistake actually made in the writing itself.

Nubby Joined Wed 01/07/09 Posts: 648	Wed 01/28/09 11:45 PM
I have yet to hear one of these contradictions cleared up totally or explained away. At the most we have decided it might have been a mistake actually made in the writing itself. Are you gonna give me one?

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Thu 01/29/09 04:50 AM Edited by Krimsa on Thu 01/29/09 04:51 AM
Yes I will. Also if you click on the post number on my profile, you will find more there. I will give you one right now however. How many men did the chief of David's captains kill? 800 2 Samuel 23:8 The ... chief among the captains ... he lift up his spear against eight hundred, whom he slew at one time. 300 1 Chronicles 11:11 The chief of the captains: he lifted up his spear against three hundred slain by him at one time.

Nubby Joined Wed 01/07/09 Posts: 648	Thu 01/29/09 05:08 AM
Yes I will. Also if you click on the post number on my profile, you will find more there. I will give you one right now however. How many men did the chief of David's captains kill? 800 2 Samuel 23:8 The ... chief among the captains ... he lift up his spear against eight hundred, whom he slew at one time. 300 1 Chronicles 11:11 The chief of the captains: he lifted up his spear against three hundred slain by him at one time. Thats a rather good one. Its a numerical discrepency. The Biblical claim is that the originals were inspired. This is different from the Quran which claims to be perfect in all its entirety. The individuals responsible for the copying (scribes or copyists) were prone to making two types of scribal errors, well known and documented by those expert in the field of manuscript analysis. One concerned the spelling of proper names (especially unfamiliar foreign names), and the other had to do with numbers. The fact that it is mainly these type of errors in evidence gives credence to the argument for copyist errors. If indeed the originals were in contradiction, we would see evidence of this within the content of the stories themselves. (Archer 1982:221-222) What is important to remember, however, is that no well-attested variation in the manuscript copies that have come down to us alter any doctrine of the Bible. To this extent, at least, the Holy Spirit has exercised a restraining influence in superintending the transmission of the text.

Nubby Joined Wed 01/07/09 Posts: 648	Thu 01/29/09 05:10 AM
Yes I will. Also if you click on the post number on my profile, you will find more there. I will give you one right now however. How many men did the chief of David's captains kill? 800 2 Samuel 23:8 The ... chief among the captains ... he lift up his spear against eight hundred, whom he slew at one time. 300 1 Chronicles 11:11 The chief of the captains: he lifted up his spear against three hundred slain by him at one time. Thats a rather good one. Its a numerical discrepency. The Biblical claim is that the originals were inspired. This is different from the Quran which claims to be perfect in all its entirety. The individuals responsible for the copying (scribes or copyists) were prone to making two types of scribal errors, well known and documented by those expert in the field of manuscript analysis. One concerned the spelling of proper names (especially unfamiliar foreign names), and the other had to do with numbers. The fact that it is mainly these type of errors in evidence gives credence to the argument for copyist errors. If indeed the originals were in contradiction, we would see evidence of this within the content of the stories themselves. (Archer 1982:221-222) What is important to remember, however, is that no well-attested variation in the manuscript copies that have come down to us alter any doctrine of the Bible. To this extent, at least, the Holy Spirit has exercised a restraining influence in superintending the transmission of the text.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Thu 01/29/09 05:13 AM Edited by Krimsa on Thu 01/29/09 05:14 AM
The fact that it is mainly these type of errors in evidence gives credence to the argument for copyist errors. That is the bottom line statement right there. So yes, the bible has errors and contradictions in it. One could clearly make the argument that it is not divinely inspired at all.

MorningSong Joined Mon 02/11/08 Posts: 4505	Thu 01/29/09 07:06 AM Edited by MorningSong on Thu 01/29/09 07:11 AM
Nubby....there are NO errors or contradictions in the Bible... and ALSO .... regarding the 2 scriptures Krimsa shared? NO contradictions found either !! (Nubby...please always check the source, from where you get your info ... and always list it ...lots of websites give us opinion only..not facts) Krimsa... lets take a closer look here, at the 2 scriptures you mentioned earlier: 2 Samuel 23:8 These are the names of David's mighty men: Josheb-Basshebeth, a Tahkemonite, [c] was chief of the Three; he raised his spear against eight hundred men, whom he killed [d] in one encounter. Notice Krimsa : It was JOSHEB-BASSHEBETH , a TAHKEMONITE , who raised his spear against 800 men ........................................................... 1 Chronicles 11:11 11 this is the list of David's mighty men: Jashobeam, [a] a Hacmonite, was chief of the officers ; he raised his spear against three hundred men, whom he killed in one encounter. Notice Krimsa: It was JASHOBEAM ,A HACMONITE, who raised his spear against 300 men . These are 2 different men, Krimsa... No contradictions, Precious Have to run....you both have a good day now.

Nubby Joined Wed 01/07/09 Posts: 648	Thu 01/29/09 07:15 AM
The fact that it is mainly these type of errors in evidence gives credence to the argument for copyist errors. That is the bottom line statement right there. So yes, the bible has errors and contradictions in it. One could clearly make the argument that it is not divinely inspired at all. Yes there were copyist errors. The bible claims to be inspired in its original manuscripts. Lets go into this.

Nubby Joined Wed 01/07/09 Posts: 648	Thu 01/29/09 07:18 AM
Nubby....there are NO errors or contradictions in the Bible... and ALSO .... regarding the 2 scriptures Krimsa shared? NO contradictions found either !! (Nubby...please always check the source, from where you get your info ... and always list it ...lots of websites give us opinion only..not facts) Krimsa... lets take a closer look here, at the 2 scriptures you mentioned earlier: 2 Samuel 23:8 These are the names of David's mighty men: Josheb-Basshebeth, a Tahkemonite, [c] was chief of the Three; he raised his spear against eight hundred men, whom he killed [d] in one encounter. Notice Krimsa : It was JOSHEB-BASSHEBETH , a TAHKEMONITE , who raised his spear against 800 men ........................................................... 1 Chronicles 11:11 11 this is the list of David's mighty men: Jashobeam, [a] a Hacmonite, was chief of the officers ; he raised his spear against three hundred men, whom he killed in one encounter. Notice Krimsa: It was JASHOBEAM ,A HACMONITE, who raised his spear against 300 men . These are 2 different men, Krimsa... No contradictions, Precious Have to run....you both have a good day now. THere is really no problem with this. Scholars work these things out.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Thu 01/29/09 07:22 AM
The fact that it is mainly these type of errors in evidence gives credence to the argument for copyist errors. That is the bottom line statement right there. So yes, the bible has errors and contradictions in it. One could clearly make the argument that it is not divinely inspired at all. Yes there were copyist errors. The bible claims to be inspired in its original manuscripts. Lets go into this. In that case, you are now attempting to take refuge in "it was all copyist errors." Good luck.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Thu 01/29/09 07:23 AM
MS you have to go by what the bible actually says. Theologians have already admitted to it being an error. The only way they can explain it is to say it is a "copyist’s error."

Nubby Joined Wed 01/07/09 Posts: 648	Thu 01/29/09 07:26 AM
MS you have to go by what the bible actually says. Theologians have already admitted to it being an error. The only way they can explain it is to say it is a "copyist’s error." Thats ignorance. I will show why.