There ARE genes which when expressed in men cause attraction to men . . .

I wish people wouldn't try to understand the world through the narrow slit of religion . . . sad.

There are discoveries regarding brain symmetry that also show conclusively that men that are gay have brain symmetry that are the same as women, not other men . . .

PURE IGNORANCE to ignore modern research in favor of a bigoted book written 2thousand years ago.

Remember Jurassic Park? All embryos are female until a release of a certain hormone makes it become male. Something like that. What about transgender? People born with both genitalia? People born with none? Now can they say they were not born that way?

Right.

Look bottom line is people want to believe that god is perfect and only makes what he wants, but then THEY create what god thinks is right based on there narrow view then deny what is really in nature due to this narrow definition of god and any kind of desire that god could have or express.

Nature does many things, and when someone is born with some genetic disease the faithful are quick to claim god works in mysterious ways, but then because it hurts there precious feelings to think people are born gay, then they just say, OH ITS THERE CHOICE! Or its something THEY LEARN!

Utter Crap, its wish making crap.

People are born with many different things in there genes that effect behaviors across the board.

Learn to live with this in your community and in your life is the best advice I have for people on both sides.

Tolerance really is the only way. I can tolerate any idiotic belief if the faithful can tolerate the people who are born a certain way wanting equality.

Deal?

Wont go into details but my daughter has a birth defect in her genitalia. She was born that way! Nothing I did or her mom did caused it. Now does someone want to question her womanhood? Im sure none of you want to go there. Im not saying any person gay, straight, transgender or what ever has a birth defect, Im just pointing out what I as a parent have experienced in the birth of my child. Im with you all the way Bushidobillyclub

My thought about that was that church authority would have a huge problem if all of a sudden they had to deal with a scientific fact that gays are born gay.

They must hang on to the choice thing, because if it is a choice, they assume one can change. This gives the church legitimacy for their view. If gays are born gay they have a problem. How do they then say we are sinners and an abomination. So the church isn't going to let go of the choice thing any time soon. Again if you are wrong about such a huge thing, what are you right about? And why should you be allowed to dictate my life in anyway.

I personally take the choice notion as an insult, and probably not for the reasons many think. I find it a insulting because it says my choices are sinful and and unacceptable to my fellow man. So being straight then would be unacceptabe to me as a gay because I can't relate to you?

As and adult I take my responsibilities seriously and my choice was perfectly in tune with what I wanted out of my life and how dare another adult tell me what is acceptable for my life when I hurt no one by that choice.

I didn't marry and expose kids to the pain of having to lose a parent when I came out of the closet many years later, that would have hurt others. But let's remember that even in such cases where gays marry then come out much later in life, that is societies fault to begin with. Had they not driven gays into a closet in the first place, they would not have had to try to conform by marrying against their nature to begin with.


I know a wonderful man that was married for 30 years. He loved his wife with all his heart, but he was never happy. Despite the pain to himself and his wife and children he finally had to stop living the lie. His kids and his wife eventually came to understand. His wife eventually acknowledged the clues and today is happily married to a straight man. Other families are more divided and it didn't work out so well for them.

I love how many Christians are quick to fault the man in this situation, yet it was their beliefs that forced him to try to live a false life. He was a Christian, he thought he was doing what was expected of him. In the end he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't by Christians.

Why would a good and loving God put anyone in such a horrible position when the largest precent of society never has to make such a painful decision.

Anyway, choice or not, if we truly care about everyone involved we must learn to accept that not everyone is the same as we are.

ALL marriage should be illegal. People are not property!
Relationships should have their own rules. No discrimination
against single people anymore or those who choose to have
a family without marriage.

Then, we don't have to worry about it!

i was watching the history of christmas on the history channel last night

do you know that the puritans outlawed christmas during the short time that they were in charge of their country

the point was made that the puritans outlawed christmas because the celebrations got a bit wild and that they were afraid that they would enjoy themselves to much

their fear was that their enjoying christmas to much would be dangerous to their relationship with god (the people were so animate about christmas they reinstated the monarchy) [what message does that send]

this made me wonder -- maybe those that are so animate in their anti gay sentiments may also believe that they possibly would enjoy gay activities to much (thus possibly endangering their relationship with god)

if they are not afraid of falling into the gay lifestyle what other reason would they have for being so animate about it

after all if someone is not a believer (their relationship with god is not in danger [cause they do not have one])

so all of you that are against gays be strong i know you can resist the temptation to join them - you know you can resist as well

so lets live and let live -- unless of course you truly are afraid you may enjoy it and fall into that lifestyle



just something to think about

People are not property, good point. Out of curiosity why would you want a family with out marriage? In terms of benefits and advantages?

What discrimination do we have toward singles? I can't think of any off hand this soon after waking up.. lol

And how would either related to this issue, s1owhand? Really just curious, it's hard to see all points of view when we are often so out of touch with the realities of other people's lives and situations.

tax rate on singles are higher than married

Oh I'm just pointing out that the marriage issue is a
really broad one. There are many many people in our
society whose family does not involve marriage. The
institution may be an anachronism which is on its way
out anyway.

Marriage is ill-defined. Different people think of it
in different ways. Different societies define it in
contradictory ways. It is by its nature however a means
to give a couple or group of people in the case of
plural marriage rights beyond what two people who are
single but who are in a committed relationship have.

So - I am challenging the readers here to think of the
issue in a broader way. That's all. There are good
reasons to consider the possibility of outlawing marriage
altogether and designing a different form of legal
structure for families and relationships.

Thanks for responding s1owhand, that would be a very interesting topic all by itself. I like the idea of redifining the legal structure to be inclusive of unconventional lifestyles as it pertains to adults. Oh geez, I can hear the rattling of swords now. Ack!!

Of course I would expect now to hear from those that would compare that to allowing folks to marry their pets something equally strange.

I just want to ask this to anyone against gay marriage:

How does 2 people of the same sex marrying effect YOUR daily life? Does it take food off your table? Clothes off your back? A roof from above your head? Does it leave scars? Does it make your significant other love you less? Does it make your children grow purple horns? If it doesn't effect you, why does it matter to you? It doesn't effect me, I believe anyone who wants to marry should be able to and there should be NO issues with it. There shouldn't have to be a law instated for it, because in all honesty there shouldn't be any laws against it. Its unethical. Did you know that there were NO laws against it until recently? It was a deterrent Bush used to get our minds off the war and onto something else he wanted to screw up.

pet-lovers of the world, DO NOT UNITE!

Being celebate, my chihuahuas have nothing to fear.. LMAO

You want to talk Bible... lets talk Bible.

The Bible also say it is not ok to Sin.
Like adultery, stealing and lying.. and yet we continue to do this everyday.

The Biblical rules are not there to condemn you like man's laws... it is a guideline... a way to show you, you are not good enough to get to heaven and that you need God/Jesus in your life. His Grace and Love even when you don't deserve it.


The Bible didn't say drive a Car.
The Bible did say don't be a part of the World and yet Christmas became a mockery of Christianity. Is it really about the birth of Christ or has it become a celebration of Consumerism.

The Bible has talked about Blaspheme and yet every Christian Anti-Gay Rights and Anti-Abortion Leader are Blasphemous about God.

There are a lot more important things in life than worry about two Gay guys having sex their way. You can't save them and passing the law and not passing the law will not save anyone from Hell. However, focusing on your own life can get you saved or save... which ever Christian religion you follow.

Satan uses the Bible to condemn and shame people away from God.

christians are so insanly worried sbout the splinter in other peoples eyes and refuse to see the plank un there own.
That is why they are so upset about gay marrige, it keeps them from thinking about their own failings.

Well, it is kinda gross seeing two guy kissing.

Then don't look.

It's probably gross to them to see a man and a women kiss.

Not all Christians are like that.

Here is a theory of what is Happening....

Christianity has been hijacked by the Republican Conservative Party. Just like how Islam been hijacked by Terrorists.

It is easy to suppress and Blind People with a powerful belief and FEAR. Who can criticize and be against God and their Good intention? Plus, you can't have Christians saying what the Christian right are doing is wrong.. because you would be Judging.

I am a Christian and it is terrible what has been going on in the name of God.

You don't suppress others in the name of God. You are suppose to show the love and Grace of God.

I recommend 3 books:
"Conservative without a Conscience" by John Dean (a traditional Conservative).
"Stealing Jesus"
"Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back" by Frank Schaeffer