"Maikuru" ..how does one get bored until they are first bored with themselves and then try to remedy the situation ...as for my assumption that one has to be alone to be bored ...well we are talking about God before creation ...wasn't he alone?

also for you believing that creation was a collective effort ...it is said that God alone created creation the old testament does not say that Jesus was there or any holy spirit

"Krimsa" God probably got bored with the angels first and had a war and killed many of them and will need humans to replace those angels for the war God will have with Jesus ..because Jesus's philosophy of Love is in conflict with God promises of Hell and it has to result in another war in Heaven

no angels were "killed" funch, they were cast out of heaven - get your facts straight at least - gheeesh!!

I see what your saying now, sorry for the confusion. I have studied many religions and faiths. As a Taoist I personally believe in the concept of the transfiguration of the Tao/Wu-Chi into the ten thousand myriad things or everything in our universe as it were. The One creates two: Yin and Yang. The two created the greater and lesser four. The four produced the eight trigrams and the eight trigrams created the sixty four heaxgrams this continued on into the creation of the ten thousand myriad things-our universe. What is Tao? you might ask, I cannot in words define the Tao. You find it spoken of in every faith in some form or another. Semantics really. What you call God I go as far as to compare Tao with your christian ideologoical view that is called a god or holy spirit. For me all comes from this and will return to this. From nothing comes everything and in everything there is nothing. I not sure what version of the Bible your faith derives from but if you read in Genesis you will find that God before creation took counsel with God before creating all things. If i am not mistaken this counsel would indicate a conference with others with the self that was God. Father, Son and holy ghost or perhaps even the angels or more. I respect your views and as i see it my views and your views do not conflict. All is One and One is All. Everything is connected. I am you. You are I am. Creation in my view is a collective effort of the one source.

The American Wisdom Series

Presents
Pamphlet #1023
If Conventional Biblical Teaching
Doesn't Fit or Make Sense to You,
"Consider This"



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Did you ever read your Bible,
shake your head,
and think to yourself,
based on what I've been taught in church,
many of the things I read
just don't seem to fit or make sense?
Well,
lay aside conventional church teaching
and consider what you are about to read.

You will be amazed.

Based on the following,
all of a sudden,
everything you read in the Word of God
will become clear.
It fits!
It makes sense!



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I purposely didn't include bible verses
to backup what you are about to read.
The reason being,

I want you to search God's Word.
Let the Holy Spirit be your guide,
and every time you run across a Bible verse that backs what I write,
you will say to your self,
"why did I not learn this in my church?"

From that day forward
you will never forget the truths the Holy Spirit leads you to,
and you will be a better Christian for it.



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***** In the world that was *****
What you are about to read
may be new to you.

If so,
try to be open minded and absorb that which has been hidden,
the mysteries,
from before the foundation of this world.

Before the earth ever was,
while as yet He had not made the earth,
nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world (Prov. 8),
wisdom alone was with our Father,
and He was alone,
which is to say,
He was lonely.

So He created,
brought forth,
His children,
the souls of the sons of God,
and gave to each of them "free will".

It is at that time,
you and I came into existence,
long before this flesh age,
long before He placed you and me in that embryo in our mother's wombs.



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***** In the world that was (continued) *****
He then created this beautiful earth,
to be inhabited,
and the "stars" of heaven,
His sons,
shouted for joy.
Gen:1-1

And so we did inhabit this perfect earth,
our beautiful home,
until one named Lucifer began to take charge
and usurp the authority of our Father.

He was so successful in his conniving ways
that he drew one third of God's children (our brothers and sisters)
away from Him.

Our Father gave this one,
Lucifer,
every opportunity to repent and change his ways,
but he would not.

An ensuing conflict followed and some of God's children
stood against this 'dragon' and were loyal and faithful to God.

Finally,
judgment was passed and Satan (Lucifer) was sentenced to die,
to perish.

And so it is,
he is called the son of perdition,
the son who will perish, even death.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***** In the world that was (continued) *****
Our Father, in His love for His children,
delayed the judgment of the rest of his children.

He instituted a plan of reconciliation,
of salvation,
to bring back those who had followed Satan
as well as those who just didn't care one way or the other.

He declared long ago,
that plan of salvation is written in the "heavens which are now"
and contained within the pure zodiac,
including the virgin birth
and the man Child who would be brought forth as Savior.

But as with all of God's works,
especially His word,
man has succeeded in perverting,
and hiding, the truth,
to point at which it becomes a mystery.

So we come to Gen 1:2 where God overthrew Satan
and destroyed the "world that then was",
the age to which the fossils and the remains of dinosaurs belong.

He literally knocked this planet off of its true axis
and out of its perfect orbit,
whereby it became completely,
and utterly, void and desolate.

We, the sons of God were not in our flesh bodies at that time
and we returned to heaven at the overthrow of Satan,
the "katabole" in Greek.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***** In the world that now is *****
He then re-created the earth
and brought forth the "flesh" man
and his mate the "womb man",
created in the likeness and image of God and we, the angels.

In other words,
we look like ourselves in the flesh.

Prior to this earth age,
the only death we had ever seen was the death of animals.

The flesh man of this earth age
is God's method of teaching us the consequences of sin.
Allowing us to realize the consequences of following satan,
giving us an opportunity to save our souls,
if not now,
then, during the millennium,
when we will have first hand knowledge of both worlds.

Flesh man was then instructed to go forth and replenish the earth,
not plenish it,
for it had been populated before.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***** In the world that now is (continued) *****
It was decreed for all of God's children to pass through this earth age,
born of woman,
born innocent, i.e.
"it is given unto all men to die once",
in the flesh of course.

You see,
when we are born in the flesh
we have no knowledge of the events that occurred
in the "world that then was".

That is what born innocent means.
Our minds are blank.
We are free to chose whether to follow God or Satan.

Of course some of us already chose to follow God
in the "world that was"
and stood against Satan.

Therefore God chose them (predetermined, predestinated them),
having justified them,
to be used by Him as the remnant and His elect,
down through the allotted time of history,
to bring about His plan.

Do you now see how Paul's statement in Ephesians 1:4 makes so much sense,
when he says,
"we (God's elect) where chosen before the foundation of this world,
that we should be holy and blameless before Him in love?"
It remains a "mystery" to the world.
(Some of us were saved in the first earth age by choosing to remain faithful to God during Satan's rebellion)



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***** In the world that now is (continued) *****
God then, after He had created the "ethos",
the races, the nations, on the sixth day, rested on the seventh.

On the eighth day He formed Adam and his wife Eve
to be the "tillers of the ground",
to prepare and make ready for the Savior of the world.
For it would be through their offspring,
the children of Adam and Eve,
that Jesus Christ would be born.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***** In the world that now is (continued) *****
Satan knew that.

So what did he do?

He immediately tried to thwart God's plan.

He seduced mother Eve!
Not into eating an apple (the word apple is not found in the Book of Genesis)
but into bringing forth his seed,
Cain,
Satan's son.

That is why you will not find Cain in Adam's genealogy
in chapter 5 of Genesis.

He has his own in chapter 4.

Why?

He was not Adam's son!



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***** In the world that now is (continued) *****
It is a mystery?
What happened in the fig grove
has been hidden for a long time.

In fact, it's interesting that the very word "fig",
according to Webster's dictionary,
also means "hidden",
the expression being "it is a fig".

But remember the Parable of the Tares in Matthew 13?
Jesus Christ explained
how the "children of disobedience",

Satan's children, the sons of Cain (Kenites),
the tares,
came about.

His explanation IS NOT a parable.
The parable was given earlier.
This is the simple truth.

Matthew 13:37-39
He answered and said unto them,
He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

[38] The field is the world;
the good seed are the children of the kingdom;
but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

[39] The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world;
and the reapers are the angels.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***** In the world that now is (continued) *****
It remains a "mystery" to the world.

After Cain,
the first murderer,
killed Abel,
God raised up Seth to continue Adam's progeny.

Then as Adam's family grew,
Satan had his loyal followers,
the wicked sons of God,
leave their "first habitation",
heaven,
and come directly to earth,
without being born of woman.

That violated God's decree
and thus they sealed their eternal destruction.
These sons of God took to wife the daughters of Adam
and that union produced the "gibor", giants.

Only Noah and his family
were left undefiled by these sons of God,
i.e. had maintained a pure pedigree.
Our Father brought about the flood of Noah
to rid the earth of these menacing creatures.

Noah's flood was not world wide.
The signs of flood that we see in other parts of the world
are from Lucifer's flood
at the end of the world of old.

However,
there was yet another influx of fallen angels
following Noah's flood.
Those later giants awaited the children of Israel
in the promised land.

Remember when the spies of Joshua came back and reported giants?

Goliath,
who was 13 feet tall,
was one of the last of these giants that we read of in the Bible.
(Evidence that giants once roamed the earth are plentiful if you care to research.
Start with Easter Island and the shores of Bashan.)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***** In the world that now is (continued) *****
Throughout the Old Testament
we read of Satan's attempts to thwart God's plan,
his attempts at Abraham and Sarah,
Judah and his troubles, etc., etc., etc.,
until finally Satan brings about the crucifixion of Christ,
the bruising of His heel, as prophesied in Genesis 3:15.

(Some of us are saved in this earth age, by claiming the blood of Christ to wash away our unfaithfulness)
We will be part of the first resurrection,
receive eternal life,
and become Christ's training assistants during His millennial reign,
teaching righteousness to our brothers and sisters.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***** In the world that now is (continued) *****
We are now about to enter into a new era,
the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ and His saints.

But before we do,
we will witness the entering in,
a grand entrance to be sure,
of the false messiah,
the antichrist,

Satan himself,
who will bring about his one world political (and religious) system.

As Paul taught in 2 Thes 2,
he will stand in Jerusalem claiming to be Christ returned
and effectively convincing the entire world by performing wonders and miracles in the sight of men.

Accompanying him will be his angels,
those sons of God in Gen. 6 that we just discussed.

It is written and declared by Jesus Himself...
"as it was in the days of Noah,
so shall it be before His return...
they will be eating and drinking,
and giving and taking in marriage".
Now you know who.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***** In the world that now is (continued) *****
There is so much more.
We have but briefly covered some of the "mysteries" which Paul taught.
But contained therein are the answers
to so many questions that mainstream Christianity struggles with.

For instance,
how is it that God could have hated (loved less by comparison)
Esau and loved Jacob while they were yet in their mother's womb?

(Anyone with children will tell you that new born babies have different personalities
"right out of the gate".
But of course!)

How is it that God named Jeremiah and others before they were born?

How is it that Paul could say we were chosen before the "katabole"?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***** In the world that will be *****
It is so simple.
Our Father knew us from before, long ago.

We are His children.
We were with Him before we came to dwell (tabernacle)
for a short time in this flesh body.

It will die and decay and we will RETURN to the Father
(unless of course we are alive and remain at the second coming of Christ.

Then we will be changed instantly,
in a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye,
into our spiritual bodies.

Remember Paul said in 1 Cor. 15,
"behold I show you a mystery,
we shall not all sleep").



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***** In the world that will be (continued) *****
And so it is easy to see how Paul becomes very humbled
because of the grace and the greatness of the revelation of the plan of God
(now no longer a mystery)

We will all spend the millennium,
in spiritual bodies,
having experienced life in flesh bodies,
separated from God.

While Satan is locked in the pit for one thousand years,
we all,
even the ones of us who went through the earth age
without coming to know the Lord,
will learn to appreciate what Christ has done for us.

At the end of the one thousand years,
when Satan is released for a little while,
we will all be tested.

(Some of us will be saved at the end of the millennium after passing the test)

If we remain faithful to the Lord
we will receive eternal life (this is the second resurrection).

But if we again give in to Satan's evil temptations we,
just like Satan who has already been sentenced,
will perish.

We will be consumed from within,
and be no more,
for God is a consuming fire!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This "American Wisdom Series" pamphlet
is

Published by:

Rhine Publishing Co.
199 Joseph Drive
Middletown, PA 17057



I know you like cut and paste funches, but this sums up some of my feelings on it and I didn't want to have to type it all

What text or version of the bible i should say are you referring to sharpshooter? Many christians follow many texts. I would encourage those of the christian faith to research and remeber when the bible was first assembled. When Constantine became christian there were already many various sects of christianity in existence. He had to form a council know as the Counsil of Nicae to determine what christians should believe nearly 300 years after christ. The very first bible as we know it today was a mixture of scriptures in Greek,Hebrew and Aramaic. Now i am about to say something which may offend some but please realize this is my personal belief and not something i go around preaching. The Bible is often referred to as the word of God or the Divine. I have come to the conclusion that the bible in its various forms is the work of men inspired by events surrounding them and many of the texts left out of the bible were as well. Does this mean the bible is not of the Divine? I don't believe that I or anyone else can make such a judgement. I just would like to make the clarification the bible was written and assembled by men. Whether or not the Divine was involved remains to be seen.

The Roman emperor Constantine! Yaaa! No agenda there.

KJV 1611, KJV modern, The Companion Bible,King James Version, Greens interlinear old and new testaments, Strongs exhaustive Concordance, The Apochrypha, The writings and teachings of scripture found by E.W.Bullinger, Arnold Murray, everything that I can read, absorb and/or disregard concerning scripture. These are just some of the things in my library.

The above is what is scattered about my desk lately anyway

Historians have estimated that by the year 200 CE, less than one percent of the population of the central provinces of the Roman Empire were Christians and these were almost all confined to dwellers in the cities and town. The rural folk held so strongly to their old beliefs that the Latin term for peasants, pagani, became for Christians the generic term for adherents of the old religions.

Christianity was not doing well at all even after coming under the imperial favor of the emperor Constantine in the early fourth century. Even after the conversion of Constantine the growth of the religion had stagnated and it is a historical fact that by the beginning of the fourth century the Christian church was already on its death throes; partly due to the persecution by the Emperor Diocletian and due to the intense competition for converts by the rival religion, Mithraism.

Even after the council of Nicaea decided that Jesus was divine, and the heretics who said otherwise had all been slaughtered, more was needed to win converts. It didn't offer a superior theology or morality, so why not play on one of humankind’s most basic fears: death, the dissolution of the individual ego.

Promise people eternal life, even though there is absolutely no evidence to support this belief, because most people are so terrified of death that they cling to this promise, insisting that it must be true.

Offer them personal immortality if they accept Christian dogma and faith but tell them that they will burn in Hell for eternity if they don't.

morning krimsa

maikuru

What you don't understand is that you would be killed if you called yourself a Christian.The Romans would have killed you because they though the threat of retaliation for the death of Jesus would bring large mobs into the city to kill Romans.The Jews also did not embrace Christianity and even to this day reject it.The bible was not written till some 20+ years after Jesus's death as many feared they would be killed.Many of Jesus's disciples met very cruel deaths under the Romans.Even after the new testament was written it was slowly introduced during a long period of time mostly in secret.

Or people just did not want to convert. You are right in that even today, the Jews still reject Jesus as Messiah. They are waiting on someone else. He did not meet their personal requirements for savior.

Normally I would agree with you but the original old testament bible said a messiah(Jesus)would come and save the world.It talked in great detail exactly what happened(and it did happen according to the old testament)So unless you want to pick and choose what you want to believe,God already talked about Jesus and more to the point that after Jesus died the only way to get to heaven was to believe in him.Jews have been known to be incredibly stubborn.There is more than a few verses where God scornes the Jews and their refusal for change.

A good topic to debate would be...do Jews go to heaven?

There have been a multitude of faiths whose methods for conversion included terror and fear. Such behavior often clashes and goes against the faiths' founders original teachings and has resulted in many instances in human history of oppression and brutality. Thankfully i have not seen any people being burned at the stake in our country for their beliefs yet. Let's all hope we can keep religious fanatics from reverting to such primitive methods....

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/salem.htm

A couple errors in your grasp of historical data here. Once Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity he effectively reversed the persecutions of his predecessor, Diocletian, and issued (with his co-emperor Licinius) the Edict of Milan in 313, which proclaimed religious toleration throughout the empire.

No, the Christian church just basically was in a rut and unable to convert the "Pagani" or Pagans. Newer and effective strategies would have to be found if they were to overcome this slump.

We can discuss those if you like?

Stop it!



No Jews dont even accept the invented premise of a heaven as far as I understand. But of course they are just being stubborn and insistent on having their own ways and centuries old beliefs. They have an "Olam Ha-Ba" or Afterlife.

"Tribo" wasn't the fallen angels known as the Nephilim all killed in the great flood

"Maikuru" the Tao still comes down to that basic question ..why would "The One" have a need to create the yin and the yang unless there were conflict within "The One"

"SharpShooter" so do you mean that it has become crystal clear to you why you should stone adulterers and unruly children to death

I suppose there may be some type of morbid benefit in being able to induce oneself to commit pre-meditated murder