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| Topic: has the "big bang theory" become a religious belief? | |
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Therefore that proves nothing. I am still relying on what the actual Constitution of the US says. right "Krimsa" and that the point of the thread ..the religious rely on what's written in the bible and you rely on what written in the big bang theory without reasoning beyond it your reasoning is ..if it's written therefore it's truth No. I am waiting for you to show me proof to somehow substantiate your position. Big difference. Not only that, you have yet to read or acknowledge ANY of my supportive evidence, or Sam's, or Jeremy's or anyone else who has participated on the thread. well "Krimsa" the proof about what the founding fathers actually frame ..you fail to realize that you and in the future and get to see the results of what they frame...it paved the way for the country to be under the jurisdiction of christianity..it made christmas the birth of christ a federal holiday and place in "God We Trust" on all the usa currency which is linked to the bilical God as for you treating the big bang as a religious belief ...then explain where did the materials that form "The One Singularity" come from ..since the theory does not address this ... No. As I have explained probably 20 times now. Its quite apparent that every time I provide answers to your questions, instead of then responding to mine in kind, you simply reply by asking more of your own and generally they are non related. This is in part how you keep the thread going.I fell for it a couple times but Im not going to allow you to continually fulfill that agenda. In other words, start answering some of my questions and actually refute my supportive evidence, or you will need to take these matters up with Sam or anyone else but it wont be me. These are some of the questions I have posed thus far that have gone unanswered by you. Or even addressed for that matter. 1. Why is the wording and the actual desired outcome of these historical documents to support a Deist and non-Christian agenda? 2. Prove that the Deists in ANY way shape or form associate themselves with Christianity. 3. Tackle the Treaty of Tripoli and article 11 specifically. 4. Prove that "In God we Trust" necessarily refers to the conceptualization of a biblical god specifically. We can start with those. "Krimsa" you keep trying to read the mind of the founding fathers and the words written instead of looking at the results that their action lead to today ....the country is christian and they paved the way for it ....if all the founding fathers had roots in islam then the country would be muslim you would be naive to think that "in God we trust" does not refer to the bibical god and Jesus as god if the country was muslim the money would have "in allah we trust" and you would be wearing a burka That is merely conjecture on your part and you DID NOT answer one of those questions. If I am wrong in your opinion, it should be easy to prove this to be the case correct? Still waiting Krimsa looks at her watch. |
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Ok, so if you don't pray to it, you don't acknowledge some kind of consciousness, it didn't create us in any kind of directed way. "Bushidobillyclub" ..you are equating knowledge with consciousness ...it doesn't take consciousness for a rock to one day fall off a cliff ..so why would the big bang need consciousness to take place also of course believers in the big bang have to believe that is what created them thank you, you made my point funch. it is ridiculous to believe that something without conciousness that makes no decisions made you and that you could replace god with that thing . . . silly, ridiculous, a great comedy, that is this thread. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Tue 10/28/08 06:30 AM
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Oh never mind, I give up. You are just going to argue with the concept of "ceremonial Deism."
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Tue 10/28/08 06:33 AM
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Im wondering how being forced to say under god, or In god we trust is not religious.
Sounds like having cake after eating said cake. _________ To note, I have never given two flips about those issues, there are bigger fish to fry. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Tue 10/28/08 07:13 AM
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Im wondering how being forced to say under god, or In god we trust is not religious. Sounds like having cake after eating said cake. _________ To note, I have never given two flips about those issues, there are bigger fish to fry. Well I think that is the reason why Americans are not forced to say "under God" and there is such an effort made at separation. If you observe one religion specifically, then you MUST observe them all. That is not feasible. There is no implication that the god being referred to is necessarily the Christian God in designation yet many Christians assume it is. In the case of Ceremonial Deism, it is just that, a generic creator or the "god of nature". No direct connection with the god of the bible or Jesus. However, I imagine we would soon be hearing some fussing from the Christian Americans if we decided to change the wording on the pledge of allegiance to "one nation, under Buddha."  |
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After the New World Order is in place the pledge will change from one "nation" to one "World" under God. And that God will be the one they choose. |
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Thats why in addition to my "Jesus proof fencing" in case of the Second Coming, Im now in the process of installing my anti "New World Order" proponents shock and stun automatic motion detected sensory equipment. I would be done by now but I keep taking breaks.
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That is merely conjecture on your part and you DID NOT answer one of those questions. If I am wrong in your opinion, it should be easy to prove this to be the case correct? Still waiting Krimsa looks at her watch. "Krimsa" you wish to keep debating the past instead of opening your eyes as to how the founding fathers lead the country into christianity you keep saying how smart Jefferson was then surely he would have seen that his actions would lead the country down a christian path ..if he did not then he is not as smart as you claim he is |
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Ok, so if you don't pray to it, you don't acknowledge some kind of consciousness, it didn't create us in any kind of directed way. "Bushidobillyclub" ..you are equating knowledge with consciousness ...it doesn't take consciousness for a rock to one day fall off a cliff ..so why would the big bang need consciousness to take place also of course believers in the big bang have to believe that is what created them thank you, you made my point funch. it is ridiculous to believe that something without conciousness that makes no decisions made you and that you could replace god with that thing . . . silly, ridiculous, a great comedy, that is this thread. "Bushidobillyclub" ..if according to the theory that the big bang supposely created the universe then wouldn't it be responsible for resulting in the creation of the people and all life that exist within the universe ....isn't this simple logic?...er...I'm curious...did you pass that math test you took the other day? |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Tue 10/28/08 07:35 AM
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That is merely conjecture on your part and you DID NOT answer one of those questions. If I am wrong in your opinion, it should be easy to prove this to be the case correct? Still waiting Krimsa looks at her watch. "Krimsa" you wish to keep debating the past instead of opening your eyes as to how the founding fathers lead the country into christianity you keep saying how smart Jefferson was then surely he would have seen that his actions would lead the country down a christian path ..if he did not then he is not as smart as you claim he is I dont want to debate this at all. Funch you brought this up when I interjected Article 11 of the Treaty with Tripoli. The Founding Fathers and the birth of a nation is a completely different set of circumstances than the political climate of the US 30 years ago or the current day. Find where I described Thomas Jefferson as "smart" and quote that. I have described him as a Deist. You have repeatedly refuted that claim and characterized him as a Christian yet offered no supportive evidence except your opinion. I will hear you out if you want to do that now. If these Deists thought their actions would "lead this country down a Christian path" then they probably would have not asked for a separation between church and state but you can address that one also. I think they might have been trying to avoid that mess entirely. Remember Ben Franklin was also a scientist during the Age of Enlightenment. What had the church's track record been as it related to the sciences and repression of new ideas? What might have been on the minds of some of these men as it related to a dogmatic belief system getting too mixed up in the establishment of a constitutional, governing document? |
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That is merely conjecture on your part and you DID NOT answer one of those questions. If I am wrong in your opinion, it should be easy to prove this to be the case correct? Still waiting Krimsa looks at her watch. "Krimsa" you wish to keep debating the past instead of opening your eyes as to how the founding fathers lead the country into christianity you keep saying how smart Jefferson was then surely he would have seen that his actions would lead the country down a christian path ..if he did not then he is not as smart as you claim he is I dont want to debate this at all. Funch you brought this up when I interjected Article 11 of the Treaty with Tripoli. The Founding Fathers and the birth of a nation is a completely different set of circumstances than the political climate of the US 30 years ago or the current day. Find where I described Thomas Jefferson as "smart" and quote that. I have described him as a Deist. You have repeatedly refuted that claim and characterized him as a Christian yet offered no supportive evidence except your opinion. I will hear you out if you want to do that now. If these Deists thought their actions would "lead this country down a Christian path" then they probably would have not asked for a separation between church and state but you can address that one also. I think they might have been trying to avoid that mess entirely. "Krimsa" if those deist and other founding father was smart they would gotten rid of all religion ...because they had to know it would lead to a christian state just like it did in england ..which means for all you know that was their true intention was to keep the country under the same God as england..Yahweh |
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After the New World Order is in place the pledge will change from one "nation" to one "World" under God. And that God will be the one they choose. "JennieBean" ..if the United States remains the leader of the world ..the world will become one nation under God and that God will be Jesus |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Tue 10/28/08 07:44 AM
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That is merely conjecture on your part and you DID NOT answer one of those questions. If I am wrong in your opinion, it should be easy to prove this to be the case correct? Still waiting Krimsa looks at her watch. "Krimsa" you wish to keep debating the past instead of opening your eyes as to how the founding fathers lead the country into christianity you keep saying how smart Jefferson was then surely he would have seen that his actions would lead the country down a christian path ..if he did not then he is not as smart as you claim he is I dont want to debate this at all. Funch you brought this up when I interjected Article 11 of the Treaty with Tripoli. The Founding Fathers and the birth of a nation is a completely different set of circumstances than the political climate of the US 30 years ago or the current day. Find where I described Thomas Jefferson as "smart" and quote that. I have described him as a Deist. You have repeatedly refuted that claim and characterized him as a Christian yet offered no supportive evidence except your opinion. I will hear you out if you want to do that now. If these Deists thought their actions would "lead this country down a Christian path" then they probably would have not asked for a separation between church and state but you can address that one also. I think they might have been trying to avoid that mess entirely. "Krimsa" if those deist and other founding father was smart they would gotten rid of all religion ...because they had to know it would lead to a christian state just like it did in england ..which means for all you know that was their true intention was to keep the country under the same God as england..Yahweh Is that way you would have handled it if you were in the position of Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin? Simply instigate a policy of annihilation of ALL religious theology in the colonies? Would that have been prudent while they were in the process of breaking ties with the motherland, England? They could have very easily gone down that road. Just as the Catholics in England killed Protestants by the hundreds. And then the Protestants would later embark on a campaign of murdering Catholics. Back and forth, endlessly. Youve heard of Bloody Mary right? Or you've at least drunk one before? 
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Is that way you would have handled it if you were in the position of Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin? Simply instigate a policy of annihilation of ALL religious theology in the colonies? Would that have been prudent while they were in the process of breaking ties with the motherland, England? They could have very easily gone down that road. Just as the Catholics in England killed Protestants by the hundreds. And then the Protestants would later embark on a campaign of murdering Catholics. Back and forth, endlessly. Youve heard of Bloody Mary right? Or you've at least drunk one before? the way I would handled it was the same way the founding fathers did ..but I wouldn't be under the illusion that my religious roots and deist beliefs wouldn't lead the country into christianity ...if you claim that Jefferson was smart ..don't you think he would have realize that |
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Is that way you would have handled it if you were in the position of Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin? Simply instigate a policy of annihilation of ALL religious theology in the colonies? Would that have been prudent while they were in the process of breaking ties with the motherland, England? They could have very easily gone down that road. Just as the Catholics in England killed Protestants by the hundreds. And then the Protestants would later embark on a campaign of murdering Catholics. Back and forth, endlessly. Youve heard of Bloody Mary right? Or you've at least drunk one before? the way I would handled it was the same way the founding fathers did ..but I wouldn't be under the illusion that my religious roots and deist beliefs wouldn't lead the country into christianity ...if you claim that Jefferson was smart ..don't you think he would have realize that Once again I never used the term "smart". I used the characterization Deist. And no. |
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Is that way you would have handled it if you were in the position of Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin? Simply instigate a policy of annihilation of ALL religious theology in the colonies? Would that have been prudent while they were in the process of breaking ties with the motherland, England? They could have very easily gone down that road. Just as the Catholics in England killed Protestants by the hundreds. And then the Protestants would later embark on a campaign of murdering Catholics. Back and forth, endlessly. Youve heard of Bloody Mary right? Or you've at least drunk one before? the way I would handled it was the same way the founding fathers did ..but I wouldn't be under the illusion that my religious roots and deist beliefs wouldn't lead the country into christianity ...if you claim that Jefferson was smart ..don't you think he would have realize that Once again I never used the term "smart". I used the characterization Deist. And no. so are you saying that jefferson wasn't smart or have the power of foresight to knew what he was doing would lead to christianity .....didn't you say the same about Einstein and the bomb ...."Krimsa" you are pratically suggesting that these guys were idiots |
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Oh funch, how stupid do you think people are exactly? No one is falling for that nonsense. You answer some of my questions and then I will respond again.
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Edited by
funches
on
Tue 10/28/08 09:44 AM
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Oh funch, how stupid do you think people are exactly? No one is falling for that nonsense. You answer some of my questions and then I will respond again. well "Krimsa" because the founding fathers believed in God is an exact result why the country is now christian the treaty of tripoli you keep referring to that supposely said that this country will not use religion to attack another country didn't stop George Bush from using christianity to invade Iraq since the founding fathers actions celebrated christmas this lead this country to make christmas a federal holiday referring to the birth of christ and the government place "in god we trust" on all the usa currency which means there is no such thing as sepeartion of church and state so you can called them deist all you want but as we see now this country is christian and recognize Jesus as God |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Tue 10/28/08 09:49 AM
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Thats conjecture. Im looking for actual supportive evidence that is not based on what funch determines is "truth or reality". Here is a example of non subjective supportive evidence since it would appear that some clarification is indeed warranted.
Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation. Article 11 Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. |
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Thats conjecture. Im looking for actual supportive evidence that is not based on what funch determines is "truth or reality". Here is a example of non subjective supportive evidence since it would appear that some clarification is indeed warranted. Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation. Article 11 Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. "Krimsa" you keep quoting words that happen hundreds of years ago but you fail to recognize what those words have resulted in today ....jefferson as you say didn't have any idea what his actions would lead to...but you have the priviledge to see the end results ...their actions lead to the instillation of christianity ..but you are in denial of this fact for all you know they could have planned this from the beginning |
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