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Topic: Finally
Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sun 09/21/08 04:35 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sun 09/21/08 04:36 PM
I did not ever say there was anything "magic" about the pineal gland. Oh good lord, you go on about that gland endlessly. You do it all the time. Why else would you even have to preface the comment in your post. It appears you don't know how you come off to others. I have only just begun talking about the pineal gland in the past few weeks. I have never said it was magic or mystical. Neither is out of body travel magic or mystical. Nothing is mystical. Everything is science. (not your kind of physical science perhaps, but science just the same.)

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Sun 09/21/08 04:40 PM
I did not ever say there was anything "magic" about the pineal gland. Oh good lord, you go on about that gland endlessly. You do it all the time. Why else would you even have to preface the comment in your post. It appears you don't know how you come off to others. I have only just begun talking about the pineal gland in the past few weeks. I have never said it was magic or mystical. Neither is out of body travel magic or mystical. Nothing is mystical. Everything is science. (not your kind of physical science perhaps, but science just the same.) "Why is it that everyone I talk to about OBE's or NDE's or the pineal gland or the tarot cards or just about anything, they start proclaiming or protesting that there is nothing "MYSTICAL" about it? FOR THE RECORD: I have NEVER claimed that anything is "Mystical" so what is all this resistance against the word "mystical?"-JB Why would you feel the need to make this comment unless "everyone" was claiming that you were using the term "mystical" to describe the pineal gland which by the way, I have heard you talking about since I very first started posting. I just never responded because I wasnt interested, as I was not interested in the NDE either until you jabbed and started fights.

splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Sun 09/21/08 04:52 PM
Edited for brevity. While I can see the point that you are making here, I would like to bring up a point that often happens on these forums. The statement "Your imaginary friend in the sky doesn't exist - you're delusional" Now - I'm not going to passively let this statement go by - especially when it follows some claim of what "Christians do" - that I know to be absolutely false. I can respond to this vehemently without thinking for a single moment that there is a word of truth in it that might apply to me - what-so-ever. I don't even need to pause to think about it. Usually - what thought crosses my mind is to immediately ask the poster if they've even read the bible. To which I never get a response. At this point - I let it go. But I respond initially - not because I believe there is a ring of truth in it for me - but because I see a fallacy in the broad interpretation of "religious profiling" with no wisdom or understanding of the topic they are adressing in the first place. That of Christian doctrine and percieved behavior. So - while I see your point - often times it does not hold true in the religion forums. Whoa... Nothing about what this poster has written has A THING to do with "what Christians do". Nor has this poster EVER suggested that anyone is delusional for their beliefs... ...and were we limited to ONLY discussing Christian doctrine? If so... I'll consider myself moderated. Religious Profiling? Dude! This isn't an "Us and Them". At least not as far as this poster is concerned. Yes... This is a Religion Forum. I was under the impression that participation was not limited to one Religion. Hmmm... Having read the OP of this thread - I just thought it appropriate to mention it as a response to your broad reference to negativity in posts. Didn't mean it as a direct reference to any previous posts of yours. Not an "Us/them" thing. Well - I disagree. I've seen Spider attacked enough to know that this isn't true. It doesnt matter what the topic is, Abra will get his "I hate Christianity" post in. So - I'm not sure where you are getting your impression from - you will find that more than a majority of these threads will bring itself down to some comment about christianity before the thread ends. But it just so happens that >this< thread was one on christianity. Yes, Eljay... I stand corrected. As stated in a previous response to Feral, it is acknowledged that the OP was, indeed, about Christianity. Since I see very little value in "making" any one religion or any "one" wrong, there is little desire to focus on such divide... Even though there are recurring themes of "us and them" throughout this community. There seems to be such defensiveness of beliefs that many tend to be nearly completely blind to or unwilling to consider that others' intentions may be other than combative. NO CHRISTIAN BASHING HERE (only speaking for myself). I admit to having an agenda for finding common ground (I guess this somehow makes me feel better). I happily admit stupidity. I certainly wouldn't say stupidity - but once the threads get into 10 or more pages, often the OP gets lost. This thred is one that's been all over the place. I agree with you - there is a lot of defensiveness that occurs, and Ferals OP pretty much nails it on what often occurs that brings this about. There is a wide spread impression of what "Christianity" is essentially about - and misperceptions run amok by those who are not Christians themselves who start in on their pereption of how a christian see's themselves - or behaves; how a christian interprets scripture, or even for that matter - who is a christian and who isn't, despite what they claim. If you take a step back - I think you'll notice that this is where the majority of defensive posts, or disagreements occur. Aside from the never ending toic of evolution vs. creation. One comes into a thread with one's own ideas and tries to see the same in the OP. Will there ever be a one-size-fits-all paradigm? It seems like it would be ideal... But then, what would become of all these delicious debates?

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Sun 09/21/08 04:59 PM Edited by Krimsa on Sun 09/21/08 05:02 PM
Just an interesting article. “Mystery is another name for our ignorance; if we were omniscient, all would be perfectly plain.” – Tryon Edwards The near death experience is very much in the mainstream. There have been related movies, bestselling books, and TV specials. With modern techniques of resuscitation, near death experiences (NDE) occur with increasing frequency. In fact, 13 million Americans or 5% of the population have reported having an NDE.* The term was coined by Dr. Raymond Moody, who along with spiritual author Elizabeth Kubler Ross, plugged the concept into the collective consciousness back in the 70’s. NDE’s are reported by those who’ve been revived from cardiac arrest or other similarly fatal conditions. They are generally characterized by “a feeling of serenity, floating out of one’s body, a journey through a dark passageway to a warm light, and encounters with a supernatural presence or a meeting with dead relatives.” There are those who dismiss the phenomenon with a scientific explanation. Dr. Rick Strassman, while conducting DMT research in the 1990s at the University of New Mexico, suggested that Dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland released prior to death or near death created the visions and hallucinations typical of an NDE.* Maybe they’re real, maybe they’re not. As Deepak Chopra said, “In the India of my childhood, the hereafter wasn’t a place, but a state of awareness.”* Hmm, thats what I imagine is going on with the "Mystical Pineal Gland" also but this was taken from a scientific website so its biased of course.

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Sun 09/21/08 05:00 PM
speaking of cats - is this what's called a "cat" fight???? MEOWWWW!! spttttt!!! Hisssssss!! my science can beat up your paranormal!!!!!! can not! can to!! can not!! canto!! can not!! can to!! > <

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Sun 09/21/08 05:03 PM
I just wonder and what you would call it or you believe it actually happens. Is a person not of thier own will but just all of a sudden can see and almost feel like they are in a 3D projection that is on the wall. The person at this time starts to tell other what they are seeing and hearing and that this is taking place at that moment 3,4 or 5000 miles away. With witnesses that after they said had happened CNN breaks in with a news flash 15 minutes later telling about what they are seeing and hearing about. Do you believe this Phenomenom happens and either way what is it or why/ thanks...Miles

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Sun 09/21/08 05:03 PM Edited by Krimsa on Sun 09/21/08 05:04 PM
Sorry miles I meant to quote and didn't grab it.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Sun 09/21/08 05:10 PM
I just wonder and what you would call it or you believe it actually happens. Is a person not of thier own will but just all of a sudden can see and almost feel like they are in a 3D projection that is on the wall. The person at this time starts to tell other what they are seeing and hearing and that this is taking place at that moment 3,4 or 5000 miles away. With witnesses that after they said had happened CNN breaks in with a news flash 15 minutes later telling about what they are seeing and hearing about. Do you believe this Phenomenom happens and either way what is it or why/ thanks...Miles That would sound like a psychic episode or precognition. I think this is possible yet I dont know anyone personally who has this ability or has honed it. Even the police will utilize psychics during the course of an investigation that runs cold.

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Sun 09/21/08 05:19 PM
I did not ever say there was anything "magic" about the pineal gland. Oh good lord, you go on about that gland endlessly. You do it all the time. Why else would you even have to preface the comment in your post. It appears you don't know how you come off to others. I have only just begun talking about the pineal gland in the past few weeks. I have never said it was magic or mystical. Neither is out of body travel magic or mystical. Nothing is mystical. Everything is science. (not your kind of physical science perhaps, but science just the same.) I will have to back JB up on this it started with another post a few weks ago of which i participated in and the poster brought up a substance he had taken i belive and mentioned the {PINEAL} gland as where it came from plus other natural things - ill see if i can find the post, so it's only because your new K, that you think it's a main thing with JB, it's not.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sun 09/21/08 05:23 PM
"Why is it that everyone I talk to about OBE's or NDE's or the pineal gland or the tarot cards or just about anything, they start proclaiming or protesting that there is nothing "MYSTICAL" about it? FOR THE RECORD: I have NEVER claimed that anything is "Mystical" so what is all this resistance against the word "mystical?"-JB Why would you feel the need to make this comment unless "everyone" was claiming that you were using the term "mystical" to describe the pineal gland which by the way, I have heard you talking about since I very first started posting. I just never responded because I wasnt interested, as I was not interested in the NDE either until you jabbed and started fights. Krimsa, for someone who is "not interested" in NDE you are the one who posted about it first, not me. (I don't know what your agenda is that you would post about something that you are not interested in but that is known only to you ~ and I don't care really.) I have never used the term "mystical" or "magic" to describe the pineal gland or anything else for that matter. But you come at me claiming that there is nothing "mystical" about it AS IF I HAD CLAIMED THERE WAS ~ and I have never said there was. I was impelled to mention this because other people besides you have communicated with me insisting that this or that is "not mystical" or "magic" as if I have implied it was... which I had not. Some people just assume things for some reason unknown.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Sun 09/21/08 05:26 PM Edited by Krimsa on Sun 09/21/08 05:29 PM
I did not ever say there was anything "magic" about the pineal gland. Oh good lord, you go on about that gland endlessly. You do it all the time. Why else would you even have to preface the comment in your post. It appears you don't know how you come off to others. I have only just begun talking about the pineal gland in the past few weeks. I have never said it was magic or mystical. Neither is out of body travel magic or mystical. Nothing is mystical. Everything is science. (not your kind of physical science perhaps, but science just the same.) I will have to back JB up on this it started with another post a few weks ago of which i participated in and the poster brought up a substance he had taken i belive and mentioned the {PINEAL} gland as where it came from plus other natural things - ill see if i can find the post, so it's only because your new K, that you think it's a main thing with JB, it's not. No, its just because I've see her post and talk about it several times. Its pointless. Im done with this. One of the explanations offered by scientists and researches in this field is the theory that the pineal gland in fact is in all probability a culprit in what could cause some of the hallucinations and distorted perception of reality as it relates to NDE. The pineal gland releases a surge of excess DMT which is a highly potent naturally occurring hallucinogenic. Studies have actually linked the two together directly. So yet another credible explanation proposed by science. There is nothing mystical or magical about it. Its very likely this is a cause.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sun 09/21/08 05:37 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sun 09/21/08 06:01 PM
Just an interesting article. “Mystery is another name for our ignorance; if we were omniscient, all would be perfectly plain.” – Tryon Edwards The near death experience is very much in the mainstream. There have been related movies, bestselling books, and TV specials. With modern techniques of resuscitation, near death experiences (NDE) occur with increasing frequency. In fact, 13 million Americans or 5% of the population have reported having an NDE.* The term was coined by Dr. Raymond Moody, who along with spiritual author Elizabeth Kubler Ross, plugged the concept into the collective consciousness back in the 70’s. NDE’s are reported by those who’ve been revived from cardiac arrest or other similarly fatal conditions. They are generally characterized by “a feeling of serenity, floating out of one’s body, a journey through a dark passageway to a warm light, and encounters with a supernatural presence or a meeting with dead relatives.” There are those who dismiss the phenomenon with a scientific explanation. Dr. Rick Strassman, while conducting DMT research in the 1990s at the University of New Mexico, suggested that Dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland released prior to death or near death created the visions and hallucinations typical of an NDE.* Maybe they’re real, maybe they’re not. As Deepak Chopra said, “In the India of my childhood, the hereafter wasn’t a place, but a state of awareness.”* Hmm, thats what I imagine is going on with the "Mystical Pineal Gland" also but this was taken from a scientific website so its biased of course. That the pineal gland is responsible for the release of DMT and dreams and NDE or OBE or any other kind of "second sight" does not discount the reason and the remarkable function or purpose of this gland. Imagination rules the world. The pineal gland allows us to visualize in our minds eye what is possible. It allows us to dream. So you may have found the organ or scientific cause of NDE's or OBE's. SO? I have been saying this all along about the pineal gland and its function. But as we have eyes to see and ears to hear this physical universe, so do we have a pineal gland to see the non physical universes of the universal mind. If there were no reason or purpose for this second sight and this gland we would not have one. Simple as that. If we lived in a cave with nothing but darkness all around, we would not need eyes, and we probably would not have them. Knowing that the heart pumps blood and the lungs circulate air, does not make our lives less remarkable and that these organs are slightly understood and known about does not answer the questions and of why we are here or how we came to be. It does not make common the miracle of life and birth and the function of the amazing human body. So discount the near death experience as a malfunction of the brain probably caused by the pineal gland if you want, but nature is not that sloppy. These things are on purpose. JB

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Sun 09/21/08 05:40 PM
DMT!!!!! ya that's what we were talking about on the other post and i asked if it was legal and the poster said on it was very hard to get and the subject of the penial gland came up as a producer of this DMT, as well as other natural sources - that's where it all began a month or so ago OK? so this has not been an ongoing thing with anyone here especially.

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Sun 09/21/08 05:45 PM
The CIA back in the 70's used a guy who worked with a team from UCLA. He told them about bombs being built and desribed to the t where in russia and what to look for. The Blackbird spy plane picked up where he said a large building and they monitored what went in and out. Later on it came to light that everything he described in that building was as he said. They found him in phykic research at UCLA when they would have one person in one room and they would in another put different pictures on a tv screen and they would ask what was oon thier now. He had a very high percentage of being right. When the CIA came to them they desided to ask him what was happening at the Pentegon and he told them what was at a meeting. They called and he was right on. I do not know how long they used this guy and he may be dead since it has been declassified but they were using him to find out what Russia was up to. Have you ever heard about this. I am sure it is on the net somewhere i have not looked. I saw this on I believe the Science channel one day. It was quite interesting.

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Sun 09/21/08 05:50 PM
The CIA back in the 70's used a guy who worked with a team from UCLA. He told them about bombs being built and desribed to the t where in russia and what to look for. The Blackbird spy plane picked up where he said a large building and they monitored what went in and out. Later on it came to light that everything he described in that building was as he said. They found him in phykic research at UCLA when they would have one person in one room and they would in another put different pictures on a tv screen and they would ask what was oon thier now. He had a very high percentage of being right. When the CIA came to them they desided to ask him what was happening at the Pentegon and he told them what was at a meeting. They called and he was right on. I do not know how long they used this guy and he may be dead since it has been declassified but they were using him to find out what Russia was up to. Have you ever heard about this. I am sure it is on the net somewhere i have not looked. I saw this on I believe the Science channel one day. It was quite interesting. Gifts people gifts........

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sun 09/21/08 05:58 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sun 09/21/08 06:04 PM
No, its just because I've see her post and talk about it several times. Its pointless. Im done with this. Several times is not "all the time" as you exaggerated. Did you know that you have a tendency to exaggerate? One of the explanations offered by scientists and researches in this field is the theory that the pineal gland in fact is in all probability a culprit in what could cause some of the hallucinations and distorted perception of reality as it relates to NDE. Culprit? That's extremely funny because if this particular researcher thinks the gland is a culprit then he may want to have his removed and see what kind of life he would live after that. The malfunction of the pineal gland can cause dysfunctional hallucinations and schizophrenia, but the total loss of this gland would be a disaster to a person. If they don't believe this, then perhaps one of these scientists would volunteer to come to my laboratory and have his removed with a surgical lazer beam. The pineal gland releases a surge of excess DMT which is a highly potent naturally occurring hallucinogenic. Studies have actually linked the two together directly. So yet another credible explanation proposed by science. There is nothing mystical or magical about it. Its very likely this is a cause. That I already know and that is what I have been trying to tell you all along. The pineal gland is responsible for dreams and hallucinations, and NDE's and OBE's and second sight, and visualization, and imagination, and also the aging process itself. The fact that some medical scientist finally discovered this is amazing in itself because they are so far behind on these discoveries it is pathetic. This pathetic explanation and discovery, to them, is the end all explanation of all out of body experiences, visions, near death experiences, seeing ghosts, seeing angels, seeing other dimensions, seeing anything that for them just does not exist. End of story, End of investigation... they have reached the boundaries of the box they are in. Its pathetic really. That's what I will call it. "Pathetic science." JB

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Sun 09/21/08 06:39 PM
Just an interesting article. “Mystery is another name for our ignorance; if we were omniscient, all would be perfectly plain.” – Tryon Edwards The near death experience is very much in the mainstream. There have been related movies, bestselling books, and TV specials. With modern techniques of resuscitation, near death experiences (NDE) occur with increasing frequency. In fact, 13 million Americans or 5% of the population have reported having an NDE.* The term was coined by Dr. Raymond Moody, who along with spiritual author Elizabeth Kubler Ross, plugged the concept into the collective consciousness back in the 70’s. NDE’s are reported by those who’ve been revived from cardiac arrest or other similarly fatal conditions. They are generally characterized by “a feeling of serenity, floating out of one’s body, a journey through a dark passageway to a warm light, and encounters with a supernatural presence or a meeting with dead relatives.” There are those who dismiss the phenomenon with a scientific explanation. Dr. Rick Strassman, while conducting DMT research in the 1990s at the University of New Mexico, suggested that Dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland released prior to death or near death created the visions and hallucinations typical of an NDE.* Maybe they’re real, maybe they’re not. As Deepak Chopra said, “In the India of my childhood, the hereafter wasn’t a place, but a state of awareness.”* Hmm, thats what I imagine is going on with the "Mystical Pineal Gland" also but this was taken from a scientific website so its biased of course. That the pineal gland is responsible for the release of DMT and dreams and NDE or OBE or any other kind of "second sight" does not discount the reason and the remarkable function or purpose of this gland. Imagination rules the world. The pineal gland allow us to visualize in our minds eye what is possible. It allows us to dream. So you may have found the organ or scientific cause of NDE's or OBE's. SO? I have been saying this all along about the pineal gland and its function. But as we have eyes to see and ears to hear this physical universe, so do we have a pineal gland to see the non physical universes of the universal mind. If there were no reason or purpose for this second sight and this gland we would not have one. Simple as that. If we lived in a cave with nothing but darkness all around, we would not need eyes, and we probably would not have them. Knowing that the heart pumps blood and the lungs circulate air, does not make our lives less remarkable and that these organs are slightly understood and known about does not answer the questions and of why we are here or how we came to be. It does not make common the miracle of life and birth and the function of the amazing human body. So discount the near death experience as a malfunction of the brain probably caused by the pineal gland if you want, but nature is not that sloppy. These things are on purpose. JB Yeah that is all very eloquent JB. I explained to you that the pineal gland produces DMT which is a naturally occurring substance. The pineal gland is a small endocrine gland in the vertebrate brain. It produces melatonin, a hormone that affects the modulation of wake/sleep patterns and photoperiodic functions. We know that it is found within the brain but we do not fully understand its purpose. That does not make it "mystical" or "magical". It causes it to be considered mysterious.That creates a dilemma for scientists to fully acquire a conceptualization of its function and use. Personally I think modern man came to be here as a split from chimpanzee a little under 6 million years ago because I choose to accept the theory of evolution.The pineal gland was something that these early human ancestors might have possessed just as we do today. There is no way to know that conclusively but we would have evolved over millions of years so it is reasonable to surmise that we developed this gland and it served the same or similar features for us even back then.I would imagine that it might be a remnant of a larger organ but it has scaled down over the course of human development.That is an educated speculation on my part. I dont know what you believe in exactly and based on your conduct on this forum, I can live the rest of my days not having that question answered. It is completely irrelevant to the debate. I know you are not interested but modern medicine has made a direct correlation between the pineal gland and its ability to release DMT when a person begins the process of dieing. I believe that one of the higher functions that this gland provides for the body is the release of DMT in order that we may pass much more comfortably. So yes, the gland is responsible for producing melatonin which is essential to normal sleep patterns in humans but this might very well be another one of its uses. You dont have to believe or accept this premise. I could not care less. It does not discredit nor further the agenda of establishing the existence of an after world. I myself, have no vested interest in that premise. Yes I am telling you it IS in fact very likely that the pineal gland directly causes these episodes and distortions in the perception of reality because that is its PURPOSE. It releases DMT which probably serves to relax the body as there could very well be pain or a triggered fight or flight response. If the conscious brain is permitted by the DMT surge to slip into a "dream like" state during the course of death, it would dramatically ease that sensation of discomfort and fear. So yes, I am telling you in all likelihood this gland is the scientific cause for these OBE and NDE. You dont have to believe it, but it sounds quite likely to be the case to me. So I just explained to you WHY we have this gland. Its not a mystery. It has more than one function but this is probably the most significant as it relates to NDE. That IS in fact the reason why we have the pineal in our vertebrate brains. . So just because it does nothing to further your agenda and medical science has a plausible theory to explain the reason why we posses the pineal gland, does not nullify it in any way, shape or form. I am telling you there is nothing unnatural about it, and it has a clear purpose and a reason for existing. It also is quite significant as it relates to understanding why the physical manifestations of a NDE or an OBE occur. That is my opinion. Nature is not sloppy because it accounted for the dieing process and a way to diffuse the psychological trauma of that event.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Sun 09/21/08 07:03 PM Edited by Krimsa on Sun 09/21/08 07:03 PM
No, its just because I've see her post and talk about it several times. Its pointless. Im done with this. Several times is not "all the time" as you exaggerated. Did you know that you have a tendency to exaggerate? One of the explanations offered by scientists and researches in this field is the theory that the pineal gland in fact is in all probability a culprit in what could cause some of the hallucinations and distorted perception of reality as it relates to NDE. Culprit? That's extremely funny because if this particular researcher thinks the gland is a culprit then he may want to have his removed and see what kind of life he would live after that. The malfunction of the pineal gland can cause dysfunctional hallucinations and schizophrenia, but the total loss of this gland would be a disaster to a person. If they don't believe this, then perhaps one of these scientists would volunteer to come to my laboratory and have his removed with a surgical lazer beam. The pineal gland releases a surge of excess DMT which is a highly potent naturally occurring hallucinogenic. Studies have actually linked the two together directly. So yet another credible explanation proposed by science. There is nothing mystical or magical about it. Its very likely this is a cause. That I already know and that is what I have been trying to tell you all along. The pineal gland is responsible for dreams and hallucinations, and NDE's and OBE's and second sight, and visualization, and imagination, and also the aging process itself. The fact that some medical scientist finally discovered this is amazing in itself because they are so far behind on these discoveries it is pathetic. This pathetic explanation and discovery, to them, is the end all explanation of all out of body experiences, visions, near death experiences, seeing ghosts, seeing angels, seeing other dimensions, seeing anything that for them just does not exist. End of story, End of investigation... they have reached the boundaries of the box they are in. Its pathetic really. That's what I will call it. "Pathetic science." JB You talk about the pineal gland ad nausea. I dont think I am exaggerating one bit. Now it has directly been related to clearing up the big mystery behind the hallucinations and spatial distortions that might occur during a NDE. Oh well. Science is tricky that way. They enjoy finding cause and effect patterns. The term "culprit" was in direct reference to a possible explanation that would account for a NDE. Do you not understand this? Its nothing spooky but in fact due to this release of DMT.Yes, if you removed someone's pineal gland they would most likely suffer devastating effects due to the loss of melatonin. Unless it was supplied in some respect (as a diabetic takes injected insulin) I do not know what the effects would be in the long term. Your point? Oh please, now because I have presented this information, you are embracing it as your own??? Oh for Christ sake JB. Now you are claiming that medical science is just now catching up? They made these discoveries back in the 1990s my dear but you probably would not have known that as you dont endorse modern medicine and they are all agenda driven, money grubbing bastards. If modern science was no longer interested in researching the phenomena of NDE and OBE, why then are they still having these huge symposiums on the topic (see the one that I posted) where they have utilized doctors, scientists and researches from all over the world? That doesn't sound to me like the pineal gland is the "end all" like you seem to have convinced yourself. If modern medicine and science has made the pineal gland connection and arguably one of the largest discoveries over the course of the NDE debate, then who knows what else they will do. But oh yeah you arent interested. I forgot.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Sun 09/21/08 07:17 PM
"Why is it that everyone I talk to about OBE's or NDE's or the pineal gland or the tarot cards or just about anything, they start proclaiming or protesting that there is nothing "MYSTICAL" about it? FOR THE RECORD: I have NEVER claimed that anything is "Mystical" so what is all this resistance against the word "mystical?"-JB Why would you feel the need to make this comment unless "everyone" was claiming that you were using the term "mystical" to describe the pineal gland which by the way, I have heard you talking about since I very first started posting. I just never responded because I wasnt interested, as I was not interested in the NDE either until you jabbed and started fights. Krimsa, for someone who is "not interested" in NDE you are the one who posted about it first, not me. (I don't know what your agenda is that you would post about something that you are not interested in but that is known only to you ~ and I don't care really.) I have never used the term "mystical" or "magic" to describe the pineal gland or anything else for that matter. But you come at me claiming that there is nothing "mystical" about it AS IF I HAD CLAIMED THERE WAS ~ and I have never said there was. I was impelled to mention this because other people besides you have communicated with me insisting that this or that is "not mystical" or "magic" as if I have implied it was... which I had not. Some people just assume things for some reason unknown. It was not a thread about NDE. I was having a friendly conversation with sharp about it and you intruded and rudely asserted that I essentially didn't know what I was talking about. The rest is history. You have been behaving like a child ever since. I have told you twice to stop as it is horrible and not fair to other members and you continuously respond with insults. Not to mention that you started the same argument several days apart when I was clearly avoiding you. Your comment speaks for itself and that is just ridiculous. I am not getting drug down into what you personally choose to describe as "mystical" or "magical" or whoever else speaks to you about mysticism. That is IRRELEVANT to the debate.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sun 09/21/08 07:40 PM
Your comment speaks for itself and that is just ridiculous. I am not getting drug down into what you personally choose to describe as "mystical" or "magical" or whoever else speaks to you about mysticism. That is IRRELEVANT to the debate. You asked. I answered your question. Simple as that.