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| Topic: The Third Testament | |
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The story of the Ark, of course, is not to be taken literally. (An advanced civilization could have taken up DNA material but even that kind of collection process would have taken a lot of time.) I think that story, if it had any basis in truth at all, was a story of a man who built a boat to save his family and a few domestic animals for his own survival. JB And it is not to be taken literally - because... Give the problem to the myth busters or anyone else and see if they want to try building an ark large enough to accommodate all the animals on the earth for a year, and set them out to sea and see what happens. It is just highly unlikely that a thing like that happened. It is a myth, and a legend. I find no logic or reason or science or proof that enables me to believe such a tale, and if I were told to teach people these things as facts I would refuse. But by all means, believe what you want. JB One of the biggest myths in the history of man kind and they haven't already done it? What are they waiting for? Surely they can't be waiting for ME to contact them. Perhaps they believe it isn't a myth. I know what you mean though. I find Darwinian evolution highly unlikely, and a myth. There's no logic for it, and no scientific evidence to support the missing holes in the theory. If I were told to teach it - I would refuse. I just dawned on me how it could be done. Perhaps "God" helped, and "God" is an alien and he had this giant spaceship and they beamed up animals and took them into their inter-dimensional world or out into space and then came back when they saw land. 
you mean like in Star Trek IV when Kirk beamed up two blue whales into the spaceship and traveled inter-time-dimensional back to earth until he saw water ... "JennieBean" you're such a Trekkie |
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any act of nature that occurs any insurance company classify as an "act of god"
is this not simply nature, which man has very limited control over? then how did god do? does not "god" then only refer to things NOT created by physical hands........ if a tornado comes, it is as of god? or just some greater force mankind with human hands has no power to create, but only build defenses for....... such is god or the whole truth, that mankind only build defenses to disprove, lol....... if all words spoken by all were sought to be proven as true, instead of looking to see what part is untrue, then there is no wisdom as written of in times past that would not be anything but a help to further mankinds wisdom more, and nothing would be perceieved as a curse....... but in reference to a noahs flood, if it was god that caused a flood, then it was simply nature, and mens minds percieved it just as they do now, as a jugdement of god, and so said it was because all had become as wicked, and was spoken as such from the mind half of a man, creating fear of the very wisdom that come from a mans heart to answer back the WHOLE TRUTH, or give a remedie...... but did not the other half of the same man that wrote speak what his heart said, and what the remedie was? science or the truth of the mind cannot conflict with the truth of the heart, or there is no combining of forces of mind and heart, so wisdom cannot be born, to SEE MORE......... seems for science to show simple logical reasons by advanced knowledge that no such boat would house all that it said, and also withstand such forces as would have been exerted on it, is not trying to take away from truth, but simply trying to add to it MUCH NEEDED DATA........ truly there could be many interpretations of the story of the flood, none the least that it was a flood of truth, that erased all flesh or mind thinking alone, or all perceievd wickedness from the planet, from within mankind, and that the ark as a rescue boat of truth was loaded with all peoples, all sects and nations, of all colors and tribes, as animals within text are MOST spoken of as describing people, and these walked into the truth or ark as wished by any, as the rains of wickedness were poured out upon the planet, as rains within text are the rain of a holy spirit, that make all people either creepy people or good people, and all came unto the truth, two by two, male and female alike, in groups of seven meaning the seven completed layers of wisdom, as there is also seven times marched around jerhico or the truth or promised land, so just first borns of the truth, passing on all wisdom to others, went into first, and not hording what was told for ones own happiness, nor caring about ones own happiness, each entered the ark and the door to leave is closed by the truth that does ont let you go becaue one does not want to go away from it, lol, and all mankind was freed from the constant hearing of the conscious mine that whisper day and night, and condem each heart, and beings were no longer constrained by a body that entrap them, freed from the flesh, and from the gravity of the earth that constrain flesh, and flesh was as gone, and were allowed to fly free from the ark of the truth, one by one, as doves and as ravens, both the dove and raven now as one in each, good and bad now as wisdom, after they came in rescued from the flood, or a persecution of the mind, that a holy spirit create as an emotional death when in its fullness, and noah be the story of one mans journey thru this flood, and river as passed thru, and therefore only describe what shall happen to each being, lol......... nothing more than a story as written by a man of what GOOD was to come, and indeed even why the name NO.AH was used to describe, as a hint to the facts that lie hidden within the story, and that there was MORE......... is there anything that proclude these things from being a possibility? was it not said that in the last days, when minds and hearts would become as one, it would be as it was in the days of noah? if this were true, then first there is crying and weeping when the rains came, but this is spoken of in text as a good thing, not a bad, for seeing the invisible thing that make men fight and dispute, crying is brought forth, which bring admission, and then also there is marrying, and drinking, and even dancing, lol......... was it not also said if one see the "whole picture" they would sell all they have, so who can resist truth if found, and one becomes as "married" to the whole truth, perhaps one also seeing their "eve" as adam awoke and seen she was BEAUTIFUL, for the first time NOT hampered by a conscious mind that guide to misery, no longer seeing thru perception of right and wrong, and such state was said to be what would create a careless and carefree euphoria that is like a "drunken" state of being, and was not dancing also done by king david when the "ark" or truth was was brought home, and did not his wife laugh, just as abrahams did, and just as lots did.......... is there not too many striking similarities to be just conincidence? science as mans own continued learning has taught such interpretaions of the past could not be ALL THE TRUTH, so many say have faith, and believe, but if faith be had in an unseen thing, then it be not understood, and if it be not understood, then how could there be any commandment given by any to have faith? is not this a perception that does not see nor understand why it believe what it does, so faith is a word used to help sooth the soul with positve affirmations, that what one believes is the truth, as if it is not, then sudden fear would shake a soul to the ground........ but then a soul shaken to the ground is not such a bad thing, indeed, even the best thing that bring forth bliss, as what mind that say it believe in god believes it can comprehend what has been spoken was beyond mortal comprehension...... did this state that if immortal comprehension was had, that it would not be able to be explained by mortal tongue? what need to say have faith, as if the whole truth with any power of revealing more than what was heard from yesterdays does not create more faith, then it would be only a vain atempt........ faith in no understanding make for blind understanding, which be none, lol....... is not faith the sun will shine tomarrow for those that have seen the sun day after day? is faith any different than this, as aquired by experience of knowing, by seeing what is proven to be wholly true by seeing? if one believe they hear the voice of "god" or just more truth, and proclaim it, then there are many proofs specified to know if it be the whole truth or a partial truth the mind has so graciously provided, lol........ so what is up and what is down? indeed, noah was even said to have been drunk after passing thru the flood, which if alcohol was meant, and evil, and drunkeness was commanded not to do, then how did he come to be rescued as good, and still have such evil within him, showing this could not have been the true whole meaning.... also lot was saved as the only righteous man from sodom? but then also he became as drunk? why did he become drunk then and his daughters slept with him? his daughters were not burned with the rest of the evil beings? then these slipped thru the perfect perception of "god" as evil beings, and even fooled angels that accompannied them to saftey, and first alerted them to leave a percieved sodom or evil, lol........ the minds interpretations are as many as there are stars, but the heart can only connect with one........ if science and religion be two sides of a coin, then how can wisdom be had if either side believes the others side of "itself" be as evil? 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that would be of course of if noahs "ark" was taken literally, as it seems there are many mentions of the "ark" of the covenant as well, which housed god or the truth..... also there are many descriptions of what a flood and water mean within text that are not as physical things at all....... "DavidBean"...to form a base in which to debate logically the thread will constantly install absolutes so that everything is taken literally and nothing is regarded to be metaphoric considering that God wanted to destroy all life on the planet except for that on Noah's Ark God would have flooded the entire planet not a faction of it .. Noah's Ark was brought up because there were controversy whether or not the Nephilim survived the flood ..a logical conclusion has been reached that none survived ..but that conclusion can be overturned if further evidence arise to the contrary |
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text can be taken in any way one sees fit, as is not perception what determine literal for one and metaphorical for another?
there is no debate or conclusion that can be had over any ignorant words written by me, as most are just dumb questions posed to challenge thought, lol..... forgive me if i have not met debate requirements...... i was not aware i was entering into one.... are not debates for proving a point, by one that believe and profess to know a truth, while brinstorming is for sharing ideas........... brainstorming is the only place my words could ever fit in, lol.......peace man |
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The story of the Ark, of course, is not to be taken literally. (An advanced civilization could have taken up DNA material but even that kind of collection process would have taken a lot of time.) I think that story, if it had any basis in truth at all, was a story of a man who built a boat to save his family and a few domestic animals for his own survival. JB And it is not to be taken literally - because... Give the problem to the myth busters or anyone else and see if they want to try building an ark large enough to accommodate all the animals on the earth for a year, and set them out to sea and see what happens. It is just highly unlikely that a thing like that happened. It is a myth, and a legend. I find no logic or reason or science or proof that enables me to believe such a tale, and if I were told to teach people these things as facts I would refuse. But by all means, believe what you want. JB One of the biggest myths in the history of man kind and they haven't already done it? What are they waiting for? Surely they can't be waiting for ME to contact them. Perhaps they believe it isn't a myth. I know what you mean though. I find Darwinian evolution highly unlikely, and a myth. There's no logic for it, and no scientific evidence to support the missing holes in the theory. If I were told to teach it - I would refuse. I just dawned on me how it could be done. Perhaps "God" helped, and "God" is an alien and he had this giant spaceship and they beamed up animals and took them into their inter-dimensional world or out into space and then came back when they saw land.
Well - I can't disprove that. |
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The story of the Ark, of course, is not to be taken literally. (An advanced civilization could have taken up DNA material but even that kind of collection process would have taken a lot of time.) I think that story, if it had any basis in truth at all, was a story of a man who built a boat to save his family and a few domestic animals for his own survival. JB And it is not to be taken literally - because... Give the problem to the myth busters or anyone else and see if they want to try building an ark large enough to accommodate all the animals on the earth for a year, and set them out to sea and see what happens. It is just highly unlikely that a thing like that happened. It is a myth, and a legend. I find no logic or reason or science or proof that enables me to believe such a tale, and if I were told to teach people these things as facts I would refuse. But by all means, believe what you want. JB One of the biggest myths in the history of man kind and they haven't already done it? What are they waiting for? Surely they can't be waiting for ME to contact them. Perhaps they believe it isn't a myth. I know what you mean though. I find Darwinian evolution highly unlikely, and a myth. There's no logic for it, and no scientific evidence to support the missing holes in the theory. If I were told to teach it - I would refuse. I just dawned on me how it could be done. Perhaps "God" helped, and "God" is an alien and he had this giant spaceship and they beamed up animals and took them into their inter-dimensional world or out into space and then came back when they saw land.
Well - I can't disprove that. well your gonna have to prove to me you can't disprove that before i'll believe you!!!  
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text can be taken in any way one sees fit, as is not perception what determine literal for one and metaphorical for another? in this thread it's "according to the bible" in which everything is taken literally and all things metaphoric will be banish into the pits of Hell where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth courtesy of God there is no debate or conclusion that can be had over any ignorant words written by me, as most are just dumb questions posed to challenge thought, lol..... ..er..DavidBean" my parables taking friend..it appears we are going to have to do something about your self-esteem issues forgive me if i have not met debate requirements...... i was not aware i was entering into one.... ..er...you mean you haven't notice you were in a debating forum are not debates for proving a point, by one that believe and profess to know a truth, while brinstorming is for sharing ideas........... brainstorming is the only place my words could ever fit in, lol.......peace man brainstorming is merely the politically correct term for debate |
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funches......
your thread is as you claim, your thread, and indeed you have the right to dictate your perception as the guide........ i shall not cross it's borders again.....so be it as you wish |
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funches...... your thread is as you claim, your thread, and indeed you have the right to dictate your perception as the guide........ i shall not cross it's borders again.....so be it as you wish "DavidBean" this is not my thread it's justsayhi thread ..anyone is welcome to post ..heck I'm surprise that this thread hasn't been deleted yet .. the perceptions you are referring to are just logical conclusions that were made from the information and evidence provided from the other debators ... and the fun part is that any conclusion can be overturned by presenting the evidence to do so the thread is based on "according to the bible" ..since the believers take everything in the bible literally is why nothing can be claimed to be metaphoric that way the debate won't end up as mis-interpetations or as a "google cut and paste" attack..everyone will have to debate with their own thoughts if you see something that can be disputed then please feel free to dispute it ..that is what this thread is about..to come to conclusions that can not be disputed |
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funches...... your thread is as you claim, your thread, and indeed you have the right to dictate your perception as the guide........ i shall not cross it's borders again.....so be it as you wish "DavidBean" this is not my thread it's justsayhi thread ..anyone is welcome to post ..heck I'm surprise that this thread hasn't been deleted yet .. the perceptions you are referring to are just logical conclusions that were made from the information and evidence provided from the other debators ... and the fun part is that any conclusion can be overturned by presenting the evidence to do so the thread is based on "according to the bible" ..since the believers take everything in the bible literally is why nothing can be claimed to be metaphoric that way the debate won't end up as mis-interpetations or as a "google cut and paste" attack..everyone will have to debate with their own thoughts if you see something that can be disputed then please feel free to dispute it ..that is what this thread is about..to come to conclusions that can not be disputed funchies........ thanks for the invite........ great and honest and wise intentions have been seen in your post, and are admired, however, there seems some things that do not fly in the face of whole logic, but seem to be rather partial logic....... still perception is as each sees, fully brought on by all things NOT LOGICAL FOR ANOHTER...... each ones entire life is the measure of logic, and this then CANNOT BE DEFINED BY ONE, as your words seek to describe what YOUR logic be......... ones logic is indeed another mans folly...... the only way to achive what you rightfully seek and wish is for all words to be spoken, in any way and fashion, and if any one greater truth be known, then each hearer decide and this grow to more and many...... can this happen over an untruth, indeed, and has for many centuries......... but the greatest cause for such is ideas being defined as good and bad by any ONE pre-determined standard, and things not open for free and public discussion, and this even hides well sounding half-truths and allows them to prosper..... is not the very notion that say a book must be interpreted one way or another leading back to the same place you are with honest intentions trying to avoid....... for all things to come to a place of ABSOLUTE, then even though it seems as tiresome, or achieving nothing, this process will increase expidentially as time proceed, as moe is allowed to be spoken with ALL FREE SPEECH, and it does seem the stages of the world are set for a conclusion or beginning of some sort, as the untruths hidden for generations cannot be contained but so long, and the laws of the universe cause them by all nature to erput as a volcano, and indeed they have been buried for a long time, so the eruption shall be great.........peace |
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funchies........ thanks for the invite........ great and honest and wise intentions have been seen in your post, and are admired, however, there seems some things that do not fly in the face of whole logic, but seem to be rather partial logic....... still perception is as each sees, fully brought on by all things NOT LOGICAL FOR ANOHTER...... each ones entire life is the measure of logic, and this then CANNOT BE DEFINED BY ONE, as your words seek to describe what YOUR logic be......... ones logic is indeed another mans folly...... "DavidBean" I will explain what I mean by using you as an example ...let's say the debate was "according to "DavidBean" ..first we would have to install some absolutes...for instance I would say by looking at your picture and your profile name that you are a guy...Jenniebean may say you are a Draconian..Spidercmb may say that you are a nephilim, feralcatlady may say you are Satan .etc. etc. etc. .. .. with all the evidence in I may conclude that you are a guy ..and if anyone has any evidence to dispute that you are a guy they can present it and it may come to a logical conclusion that you are not a guy and some one may even say that your profile is a metaphor that you don't exist ..but since the thread is according to DavidBean one of the absolutes would be that you do exist literally not metaphorically |
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what appears to be is not always what is.........
your logic is not open to anything more than you already know, and this is fine, and suites one well as long as they are happy...... agreed precisely |
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what appears to be is not always what is......... well 'DavidBean"...does that apply to the existence of yourself to yourself ..I can't wait for you to answer this one your logic is not open to anything more than you already know, and this is fine, and suites one well as long as they are happy...... agreed precisely the logic is what it is...it states that all absolutes can be overturned ..how can it get more logic than that |
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what appears to be is not always what is......... your logic is not open to anything more than you already know, and this is fine, and suites one well as long as they are happy...... agreed precisely Which seems to mean that ignorance is bliss.
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the logic is what it is...it states that all absolutes can be overturned ..how can it get more logic than that
Absolutely !
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Logical Conclusions for insertment into "The Third Testament"
(1)That God Was Not The Only Being That Existed Before Creation the bible makes reference to angels being immortal but makes no mention of the birth of angels during creation which is an indication that angels existed before creation and this contradicts the bible that God was the only being that existed before creation...for this to be argued against logically a reference when the angels were created must be found in the Bible (2)That the term "Inspired by God" is not actually from God since God personally spoke to Moses then direct "first hand knowledge from the source" can not be regarded as being "inspired by God" also Jesus acknowledge this fact by saying that he himself did not come to change anything of Moses acknowledging that Moses had direct contact with God ...also anything Jesus said or done before his Ascension can not be regarded as being "inspired by God" since Jesus had direct contact with God since God is omniscient as in all knowing everything that Man needed to know would have been set forth between the time God spoke to Moses and after the last words spoken by Jesus before his Ascension to Heaven and anything added to the scripture after that would be assumption aka "inspired by God or Jesus" ...God said to beware of false prophets and that is an indication what "inspired by God" means....therefore the conclusion has been made that "inspired by God" are the assumptions of the author that writes them and not directly from God or Jesus (3)The Universe was created in 6 solar days according to Genesis God created the universe in 6 days but how long is a day according to Genesis.. if you notice all other reference pertaining to how long a day is were was actually describing how time doesn't apply to God ..for example peter said that a day to God is like a thousand years and that a thousand years to God is like a day ..that only mean that the concept of time doesn't apply to God but does apply to us and that statement wasn't meant to claim that a day was anything more then what Genesis described it to be...a day ..therefore the conclusion has been made that in Genesis God created the universe in 6 solar days (4) the Nephilim all perished in the great flood since God intentions were to destroy all life except what was on the ark in which animals of flight could have reach far reaches of the world then the flood had to have encompass the entire world since God viewed the Nephilm to be an abomination he wouldn't have allow any to survive no matter where they tried to hide neither would God have allowed Nephilim passengers such as King Og on the ark.. since God is omniscient as in all knowing then God would have known if Noah and crew carried the Nephilim gene .... therefore the logical conclusion is that the great flood did cover the entire world and that no Nephilim survived of course any of these conclusions can be overturn if there is evidence to the contrary |
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is it free choice or Free will or is it all God's Divine Plan
Free Will is the ability to change thought in action without any consequence or any interference from the laws of the outside forces which are the laws of physics the laws of society or the laws of a God ...as long as one is under the jurisdiction of these outside forces they have no Free Will or even any Free Choice a baby does not have the free will or the free choice not to starve if no one feeds it .. an adult on a hungry strike can be force feed ..when one is under the control of an outside force their will or option to choose become limited by that force . EXAMPLE a goldfish in a fishbowl only have the option to pick whether to swim right left up down diagonal etc. but because the fish is controlled by the laws of the outside forces the fish does not have the option to swim outside the bowl .. the bowl represent God's Divine Plan which limits the fish to make decisions within the bowl ..the bowl and all that is contained within the bowl manipulates and forces the fish to make decisions in conjunction to the Bowl's Divine Plan ...The Bowl's Divine Plan is to keep the fish inside the bowl and any decision the fish makes within the bowl will not alter the Bowl's Divine Plan since according to the bible God is omniscient then believers actually have no Free Will or Free Choice ..their destiny has already been pre-determine in God's Divine Plan |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 08/06/08 08:21 AM
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Funches, you have no concept of the meaning of your pet phrase "free will." Your definition is completely ridiculous.
JB |
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Funches, you have no concept of the meaning of your pet phrase "free will." Your definition is completely ridiculous. JB and "JennieBean" may I say that you merely saying that it's ridiculous and not explaining why it's ridicluous is in this thread ..er.. ridiculous .... that's what I like about this thread ..just saying something without presenting a logical argument means you have no evidence and therefore no logical argument to present but anyway "JennieBean" here's an opportunity for you or anyone else to explain logically how they have "Free Will" .. |
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funches......
anything can make a profession, and these not proven, lead to lies and decepetions being prospered and why your root intentions funchie are seen as wise, however, your conscious motives are readily apparent, lol...... if you wish to prove this insight as literal, then this would be of a more personal agenda, and would be much more suited for personal email, and there we can discuss things more if you like......... but regarding the aformentioned discussion of logic, and literal and metorphorical, and the things appling to these.... perception of literal logic is great for many things, but attempts to use this literal logic alone for the purpose being intended here do not strike my senses as being complete...... to not put any stock into a "metophorical" possibility, or meaning greater than literal one, are not complete for many reasons in this application....... it seems metophorical is a belief in an spiritual meaning, or just a mirror of a picture of something in the physical realm..... this would seem most important if all things created "literal" are first created within an unseen realm and not a literal one.......... if a baby is born, was it not first created in an unseen realm? was it a "literal creation" before it became SEEN by the consciouus eye? if a house is built, is not a "multi dimensional view" of structures before plans and assumptions most benificial? a metophorical meaning applied to some things is indeed not all wisdom, but here it is of utmost importance..... the root of creations is not one able to be seen with only a literal based or one dimensional sight, but the root of anything is where the creation of anything begins, so to look there would seem to be the wisest place for finding answers if they are sought...... if subjects discussed are only for mind and ego nourishing, then this is ok if this makes one happy, but not what i find most nourishing........... if the bible claim itself to provide answers to UNSEEN realm questions, then these are not literal things, such as reasons for existence, spirits, purposes of all things, human emotions, and things of this nature, then the book has made a profession of itself, and as such, a profession and swearing true of statments made by each that portook in the writing of such book...... now it seems NO BOOK can proclaim itself with any profession, and be purtorted to have any credibility, unless it can stand up to scrutiny, to see if such PROCLAMATIONS of self profession and swearing true of statments can be relied on........ this then does indeed seem to make it a worthy and wise thing to prove all things, and if a book makes claims, and these claims are said to most have insight into UNSEEN things, then if one attmepts to apply only literal logic to meaning, or one dimensional sight when proving, then the very structure included into the claims made are not being used for proving......... how can one dispute a claim made, unless all the structure the claim was based on is heeded in any wise attempts to validate meaning? how can one debate meaning without incorportaing the debating guidelines as set forth by the very authors? is the reader of any subject matter the one that proclaim guidelines to understand the author, or the author? would this not be the same as taking a math book that claims itself literal, and applying metophorical meanings to it, and declaring this as a wise way to learn the understanding of the meanings contained within? this approach would be for the reader to lift oneself as greater and wiser than all writers of any past history, and as such prolcuding all guidelines as set forth by authors as ignorance, and to do this even BEFORE first applying all logic stated to be used by authors seems lacking in forethought, and as such would make any meaning interpreted as imcomplete.......... this would be the greatest reasons that all your words are heard, and what hearing all your words would bring to my perception..... it is just one, but it is the only one each has, so to use it to the greatest potential when looking for understanding of any subject matter seems most important.........peace |
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