I will start a thread later tonight about free will but don't have time for it right this minute. I think it will be a good discussion if you have an open mind.

JB

"DavidBean" again you choose to make accusations without explanation ..commonly know as witch burning

ask anyone in the forum if I don't speak exactly wants on my mind and they will see your true motive ...I have no need to hide as you do by speaking in parables to confuse people

so come on "DavidBean" tell the forum what you think my true motives are ...tick tock tick tock tick tock

you shall be waiting by your clock for quite sometime dear friend, as the post written described perfectly all intentions and thoughts of mine as well, lol......

have fun.......

"JennieBean" does having an open mind means only if they agree with what's on your mind because why would you have to start another thread on "Free Will" and not just give a logical explanation in this thread ..

every "Free Will discussion you been in when "Free Will" did not fall in line with your pantheist beliefs you stopped the conversation or claim moot-ism

so before you run off and create that thread on "Free Will" which have been done numerous times with no conclusion.. come on give one teeny tiny logical explanation of how you have Free Will

don't worry "DavidBen" I have debated many that try to use your deceptive parables tactics which is why "I knew for a fact" you couldn't come up with anything ...so try and leave the witch burnings and the Inqusitions to the experts ..you're out of your league

oh my god, if you insist.....

since you do not see your own words as telling the motives that lie in your heart, that i spoke about, then i will explain using them......

firstly, you speak of AGAIN making accusataions.....

this show hidden thoughts that have not been disclosed to me for sure, and have not been pronounced aloud to any forum before now, which temper words, which make for motives in the words written, and is one of the motives mentioned in my post, but not disclosed.........

secondly, you speak that others in the forum will SEE my motive, which show by your own words that you already believe i have impure motives, and seek to prove to the "forum" as you say what they are.....

this is the second motive that i was speaking about in my post......

again, this was not disclosed for your sake, but rather only to alert you that this type of discussion was not what i sought most.....

thirdly, you respond only to the part of my post which simply made note of such things, and not ever saying this was YOU, and since the desire to speak and dicuss these things greatest, all of which pertain most to ego, and the love of being right most, this would also show that is what is of the greatest importance to you, and why such was also mentioned in my post......

lastly, you state that accusations are made falsly, and no accusations or statments were made to any impure motive at all, but rather these would only be seen as an accustaion of impure of oneself if these things were thought wrong........

i do not believe them to be wrong, as it was never stated that any such things were impure, improper, out of line, bad, not worthy, evil, or any such thing......

i do not believe in restrictions of others words or motives by what please myself as a guidelines for what is good or bad....

it is only about what makes oneself most happy, each one equally......

how is one to know what another deem as a sinful or bad action, as these things mentioned are obviously of a very grave concern as bad for yourself, and as such hope you will forgive me for violating your beliefs of what is good and bad.......

if in life, the thought that what one percieves is not to be spoken is believed by you, then so be it, and may this be good and happy for you, but this is not a way of walking thru life that is seen as most beneficial for myself.......

you are free to do as you wish funchie, but again, these motives and desires seem to proclude any wish of common understanding to be as most important, nor are they most enjoyable ones to me, lol.......

"DavidBen" can you just be specific instead of using all that mumbo jumbo ...just try to tell in one sentence what is my motive ..what am I'm up to

look I will teach you how to speak your mind ...for instance .. say Funches your real motive is that you are actually Satan and is here in the forum trying to steal souls ..you know something like that

come on give it a try ..you need the practice

Funches,

I suppose then, if you are not willing to expand your idea of what the will actually is then you can just believe what you want about it and just make up your own idea about what you think it is.

I told you I had a book for you to read and consider about what the will actually is. The book is called "The Power of Will" but you don't want to even let go of one tiny little inch of what you think it is.


I have also told you that Will is always free, and that it is the power of self direction. It is the power to direct your thoughts and your attention to what ever you decide to, rather than being distracted or hypnotized by others.

It has nothing to do with just doing what ever you please with no consequences, or jumping off of a building and flying like a bird. That is the part I call ridiculous.

Everything you do will have consequences. If you rob a bank and shoot someone or break the laws and get caught there will be consequences. But you still have the will to decide to do those things. However you will reap the consequences.

JB

your words declare your own motives funches, and no amount of words changes what is true and untrue, lol......

since you asked and even insisted for help to see your own motives, help was given once as token of good will, and the same hand in friendship offered as many times as you have allowed with your words.........

if you believe in satan, then so be it, he is your guide as you have pronounced this day, and steal as many souls as you see fit mr funches, as whatever a man believes by the utterance of his tongue be his guide, lol.........

right...but aren't you guilty of the same thing ..I think it's called having an opinion



"JennieBean" I only read books that have pictures in them ..besides that book has nothing in it that I haven't read in some other book



walk into a prison and tell those that are there for life that they have the power of self-direction ..they may in fact be innocent of the crime they been convicted of but the laws of soceity has taken their supposed 'Free Will" from them ..so do they have the "Free Will" to walk out anytime they want



no that's called suicidal because you would be blantantly trying to violate the laws of physics



nothing that a God does have any consequences for the God ..that's why only Gods have "Free Will" ..a God can rob a bank and shoot someone and nothing will happen to the God because the God is not under the jursidiction of the outside forces but you are ...you are only allow options and if you violate those options the outside forces can move against you and take away some or all of the options that you think you have

"DavidBen" I may or may not be working on producing a sci-fi cable program and I may or may not use 'The Third Testament' as research for one of the scripts

here the link to the production ..and after you veiw it then can you reveal my true motive as to why I started this thread ... I mean if you have that information then can you finally let me know my true motive or perhaps find another witch to burn on your stake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX1qtmnotr4

You are so funny. Okay then, I am sure you have only read comic books then. Now I know where you get your information.

JB

We are all prisoners of our own mind and what we think are limitations.

Even a prisoner can have the power of self direction. He can choose to sit in his cell and feel sorry for himself, or he can choose to do something else. He is in there because he is paying the consequences of some other action or choice he made in the past.

Some prisoners write books, learn the law, get an education. Of course it all depends on the prison he is in and what it offers. If the prison offers nothing, he can still choose what to do and think within the confines of his predicament. He can be nice, or nasty. He can still direct his thoughts and his attention. That is his will.

JB

and I see where you get your limited imagination ..because other books with pictures are science books medical books encyclopedias, architectural digest ,art books and even some of the bibles have some pretty cool pictures

your statement actually agree with my point of view because no matter how you look at it .. "prisoner of the mind" and "free Will" are contradictions ..



yep those prisoners can do anything but leave prison ...they have become content to engage in the only activities that the prison allows them to engage in ...that is not the power of self-direction ..that is control and therefore is not "Free Will"

I don't agree. It is free will. They still are free to choose what they think, and what they put their attention on.

The fact that they are in prison is a result of the bad choices they made that they are paying the consequences for funches.

The law of cause and effect, the law of attraction mean that you are totally responsible for your circumstances.

Free will does not mean you have the power of a god. It does not mean that you will not pay the consequences for your actions. Free will does not mean that you are above the law of cause and effect or Karma.

JB

so if you have to "pay" for the consequence... then how is it "Free" ...it's the prison guards that control the prisoners ...the guards are the outside forces and direct the prisoners as they see fit ..the prisoners have "no choice" but to comply or face futher consequences ...

and anyone that is not in prison but exist in society can find themselves in that same situation in an instant ..just ask Martha Stewart ..ask her about "Free Will" the laws are such so no matter what one do they are violating atleast one of those laws at any given time

The prisoners do have a choice, and you said it yourself. They can comply OR face further consequences. That, unfortunately, is their choice. Their choices are limited because of previous choices that got them into that situation.

Therefore, the lesson is that if you make "wrong" choices you will find your options getting smaller and smaller.

The law of attraction and the laws of cause and effect or Karma are teaching laws. They will eventually, over many lifetimes, lead you to learn the correct choices that will have the results you desire instead of painting yourself into a corner by your wrong choices.

JB

"Paying" for the consequences of your actions is part of the law of cause and effect that states for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. This is true down to the quantum level. It has nothing to do with the will and your freedom to direct where your thoughts and attention and actions will be.

The term "paying" is just a figure of speech. You are simply reaping what you have sowed.

JB

"JennieBean" the prisoners have no choice but to be prisoners .and being a prisoner of any type is a contradiction to "Free Will" ..and of course their choice is limited because they are not in control... other forces are ...



is this what you meant by having an open mind .. the laws of attraction and karma? ..at this point in time those are just unprovable beliefs .. remember we are keeping the discussion logical or "according to the bible" in order not to resort to placing in unprovable beliefs and cut and paste scriptures

if you can prove your theory of karma or laws of attraction then you are welcome to do so