this is extra biblical but it mat give support to what i was taught.


Genesis 6:4 states "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days --and also afterwards-- when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown." The Nephilim were a race of giants that were produced by the sexual union of the sons of God (presumably fallen angels) and the daughters of men. Translated from the Hebrew texts, "Nephilim" means "fallen ones." They were renowned for their strength, prowess, and a great capacity for sinfulness.
The origination of the Nephilim begins with a story of the fallen angels. Shemhazai, an angel of high rank, led a sect of angels in a descent to earth to instruct humans in righteousness. The tutelage went on for a few centuries, but soon the angels pined for the human females. After lusting, the fallen angels instructed the women in magic and conjuring, mated with them, and produced hybrid offspring: the Nephilim.

The Nephilim were gigantic in stature. Their strength was prodigious and their appetites immense. Upon devouring all of humankind's resources, they began to consume humans themselves. The Nephilim attacked and oppressed humans and were the cause of massive destruction on the earth.

Two texts of central import to the story of the Nephilim, the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls, mention several names for the Nephilim. The diverse kinds of these giants are cited in several passages. They are variously referred to as Emim, or "Terrors" (Gen. 14:5; Deut. 2:10), Rephaim, or "Weakeners" or "Dead Ones" (2 Sam. 23:13; 1 Chron. 11:15), Gibborim, or "Giant Heroes" (Job 16:4), Zamzummim, or "Achievers" (Deut. 2:10), Anakim, or "Long-necked" (Deut. 2:10; Josh. 11:22, 14:15), and Awwim or "Devastators" and "Serpents." Other giants are mentioned in these texts as well, such as Goliath (2 Sam. 21:19), a giant with twelve fingers and twelve toes who is mentioned as one of the Rephaim (2 Sam. 21:20), and a tall Egyptian (1 Chron. 11:23). The passage of Numbers 13:26-33 recounts the Nephilim of Canaan that Joshua and the other Hebrew spies saw. Furthermore, according to Judaic lore, a certain one of the Nephilim, Arba, built a city, Kiriath Arba, which was named for its builder and is now known as Hebron.

The wickedness of the Nephilim carried with it a heavy toll. Genesis 6:5 alludes to the corruption that the Nephilim had caused amongst humans and themselves: "The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become..." Their evil rebellion had incurred both the wrath and grief of God. God instructed the angel Gabriel to ignite a civil war among the Nephilim. He also chose Enoch, a righteous man, to inform the fallen angels of the judgment pronounced on them and their children. God did not allow the fallen angels any peace, for they could not lift their eyes to heaven and were later to be chained. The end of the Nephilim came about in the war incited by Gabriel, in which the giants eventually annihilated each other.


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"G-D" didnt write any scriptures. Men did.

ok, that's as far as i'm going on this subject to much trime looking and i have not used exegisis to do so - so i'm sure it will be shot dwn by someone

but at least it's a start if you wan't to continue to look into it abra, sorry - just not that interested myself.

I'm not sure exactly what your trying to state as a conclusion to your study - but the exegesis on this does extend beyond that of angels and men - refering to "sons of God" and "daughters of man" to the tribes of Seth (sons) and Cain (daughters).
The term "sons of God" are used throughout the scriptures to refer both to angels and to man. I suppose the reason for this is that both are creations, and refered to as "sons" in thisa manner. However - the scripture does not state this exclusively. At any rate, I don't think this qualifies as an inclusion into Funches "3rd testament", as viewing this as a contradiction is fairly subjective.

but this does bring up a question ..I notice that to make content appear to be true the term "inspired by God" is sometimes used ..when asked about the term it is never explained clearly and does appear to be an attempt at deception when used

so the question becomes does the term "inspired by God" means that the works of the author was handed to them personally by God like when God spoke to Moses or does it mean that the author was inspire to write the works as their own interpetation that had nothing to with God personally or does it refer to the author placing themselves into the mind or into the role of God and that the works is what God would have thought or set forth

Sam, didn't you say in another thread that the Bible said that fallen angels had sex with humans? And you felt that was a contradiction because it also claims that angels are sexless?

I'm curious about that. Could you show where it says both of these things? Where does it say that angels are sexless (I do believe that it must say that because I've heard that often).

And can you show where it suggests that angels had sex with humans?

If it truly does say both of those things I think that would be a pretty blatant contradiction.

"Eljay" I agree that the sex life of an angel or that angels had sex with humans doesn't meet with any contradiction that I see in the debate so far but may fall more in line with the old adage "boys will be boys" ... or maybe they were girls or both ...

but what is a contradiction pertaining to angels is that the bible makes reference to angels being immortal but makes no mention of the birth of angels during creation which may be an indication that angels existed before creation and before Time and were not created by God but were Gods themselves ..

but even if some would argue that God created the angels before he created the universe it would still contradict the Bible that God was the only being that existed before creation or that God was the only being that existed before the creation of the universe so could this possibly be included in The Third Testament as a contradiction

Funches:


so the question becomes does the term "inspired by God" means that the works of the author was handed to them personally by God like when God spoke to Moses or does it mean that the author was inspire to write the works as their own interpretation that had nothing to with God personally or does it refer to the author placing themselves into the mind or into the role of God and that the works is what God would have thought or set forth


TRIBO:

Hmm? now that's an interesting question.

In the new testament this word or saying is only used 1 time in 2nd timothy chpt 3vs 16:

"ALL scripture is given BY the inspiration [of] GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, [and] for instruction in righteousness" - all punctuation mine.

The word in Greek is " theopneustos" **

derived from theos*** and "proslaleo****

theopneustos means = to inspire one to action

theos means = to breath in
related to this is

proslaleo = to talk or converse with.

overall it gives the meaning (to my understanding) of - breathed in and given by a supreme diety to inspire one to action or actions - such as to write or kill or prophecy.

if we can use that as an acceptable definition for all who participate, then it can continue from there.

Is that agreeable with you?

if this actually goes anywhere i'd like to see it handled as a debate - if you comment, post the chpt. and verse and site who is talking and who the audience is being spoken to such as:

well it says in matt:chpt 14 vs Jesus told the disciples - blah, blah, blah, and in such and such it states, blah blah blah, unto which i or someone will respond - well is says in 2nd chances vs 40000 that blah blah blah so i disagree with your take on that, it proves nothing.

or if your not quoting scripture but making a logical point then the same thing for those who respond with scripture.

if it turns into a copy and paste I'm out of here been there done that wont do it again. and Funches, i know you'll do your best but i also know what usually happens.

TRIBO:

Hmm? now that's an interesting question.

In the new testament this word or saying is only used 1 time in 2nd timothy chpt 3vs 16:

"ALL scripture is given BY the inspiration [of] GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, [and] for instruction in righteousness" - all punctuation mine.

The word in Greek is " theopneustos" **

derived from theos*** and "proslaleo****

theopneustos means = to inspire one to action

theos means = to breath in
related to this is

proslaleo = to talk or converse with.

overall it gives the meaning (to my understanding) of - breathed in and given by a supreme diety to inspire one to action or actions - such as to write or kill or prophecy.

if we can use that as an acceptable definition for all who participate, then it can continue from there.

Is that agreeable with you?

Tribo;

Actually Peter also speaks on the prophecy of scripture. It is discussed in 2 Peter 1: 15-21.
More specifically - verse 20 & 21 states: "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had it's origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by thr Holy Spirit.

Peter goes on in the subsequent chapter to warn about false prophets - and the characteristics they will exhibit to show they are false.

For when determining what is good exegesis - thee should be corroborating evidence elsewhere in scripture to support a theory - else it's taking a specific verse and bending it to support an argument, rather than demonstrating it as a conclusion.

i agree eljay, but i was referring to the actual term being questioned which is only found in timothy, peter talks on "prophecy, yes, but does not state it as surely as Paul does, both are correct can't argue that, but still Paul is the only one to state it in the way funches was asking about. Peter unfortunately is speaking to prophecy only, Paul is speaking to "all scripture". I believe Funches will argue/debate from a point off "all scripture", not from a point of all prophecy. Otherwise there would be little to debate about.


but that is the type of response that will be needed for debate eljay as to what you've come back and stated to me on peter.thnx that will make for a good logical and interesting discussion.

now it remains for Funches to either raise a particular point he wants to debate about all scripture being inspired by god that he has questions of or someone else - since this is his thread i give the floor back to him to start.

Inspired by god:

Being an artist, I feel that many creative endeavors are inspired by "god." Leaning toward pantheism, I feel that inspiration originates from our eternal connection to prime source and our higher selves. Particularly our higher selves, because they are developed 'persons' or individuals, while prime source Itself is simply raw creative power in my opinion.

When a preacher is "called" to his mission, or when a person feels compelled to help someone in need, I believe they are "inspired by god."

We are creative beings. We get inspired by god and god is everywhere we look. So I don't think the men who wrote the Bible are any more or less than any other writer or artist who creates a book or painting. It is natural to be inspired by god. That does not make the Bible any more or less than any other scripture or book.

JB

I have heard that the Nephilim still exist today. It is rumored that the giantism effect has been overcome and most of them look just like the rest of the population.

JB

i agree eljay, but i was referring to the actual term being questioned which is only found in timothy, peter talks on "prophecy, yes, but does not state it as surely as Paul does, both are correct can't argue that, but still Paul is the only one to state it in the way funches was asking about. Peter unfortunately is speaking to prophecy only, Paul is speaking to "all scripture". I believe Funches will argue/debate from a point off "all scripture", not from a point of all prophecy. Otherwise there would be little to debate about.


but that is the type of response that will be needed for debate eljay as to what you've come back and stated to me on peter.thnx that will make for a good logical and interesting discussion.

now it remains for Funches to either raise a particular point he wants to debate about all scripture being inspired by god that he has questions of or someone else - since this is his thread i give the floor back to him to start.

Inspired by god:

Being an artist, I feel that many creative endeavors are inspired by "god." Leaning toward pantheism, I feel that inspiration originates from our eternal connection to prime source and our higher selves. Particularly our higher selves, because they are developed 'persons' or individuals, while prime source Itself is simply raw creative power in my opinion.

When a preacher is "called" to his mission, or when a person feels compelled to help someone in need, I believe they are "inspired by god."

We are creative beings. We get inspired by god and god is everywhere we look. So I don't think the men who wrote the Bible are any more or less than any other writer or artist who creates a book or painting. It is natural to be inspired by god. That does not make the Bible any more or less than any other scripture or book.

JB