hey anyone can be a Martyr...just bug someone long enough that they will kill you



because Longnius didn't have good eyesight and when he stuck the spear into Jesus out came water and blood and a spot of blood touched his lips and cured his eyesight ...so that is why believers practice drinking the blood of Christ because it has healing powers ...blood drinking is clearly Vampirism no matter how you look at it



sorry "JennieBean" but I'm going to have to apply a bit of your philosophy to your quote that "all is God's Will" don't you mean it only apply to those that are religious like Christian Pantheist Etc.

Why would that be - since he did have half brothers who were talked about. So this argument is weak.



This scenario was already handled by Monty Python.
See "Life Of Brian" for more detail. And everyone knows how historically accurate Monty Python is. Hardly material for a lesson in historical fact.

I doubt men walked around with an assistent clacking coconuts to represent a horse - do you doubt it? What do YOU think?



Then the gospel story would have been about a troop of Roman Centurians who were crucified, because the penalty for "losing one's prisoner" in those days was to take his place.



In the world of imagination and fiction (Hollywood and Books) anything is possible, in the real world most of it is improbable.

Right on Funches. Can't disagree with a word of this. However, we are aware medically of the consequence of crucifiction, and how it leads to death. Primarily of suffocation through exhaustion - ultimately leading to the lungs collapsing, and the victim drowning in their own blood. The gospel accounts do not contradict this as a possibility for "how" his death may have occured. But we will never know exactly the cause of death, as there was no autopsy, and the ultimate cause of death could have possibly been blunt force trauma.

So now you are claiming that every historian of the first century a liar!

Do you think that the Holocaust was a hoax too?
What proof of that event do we have that can't be easily dismissed as you do the historical account of the cruxifiction?

It is my belief that all is one, therefore all will is god's will.

Anyone who does not believe as I do, will have a different opinion and they will also believe that it does not apply to them.

But IMHO it applies to them whether they realize or believe it or not. That is just my opinion.

JB

and that is when the role of the Roman that speared Jesus comes into this drama ...when people are crucified on the cross others will break there legs to hasten their death ...but no one broke Jesus's legs and also no none knew if Jesus was dead or alive and that is why St. Longinus stuck the spear into Jesus and out came water and blood that may have relieved the pressure on Jesus"s lungs from the fluid buildup and this may have stopped Jesus from suffocating ...so it's a possibilty that Jesus may not have died on the cross and could have recovered from his wounds ..

in that case "JennieBean" that would mean that you are responsible for Jesus's death ...isn't to apply your beliefs to all the same condemnation that you yourself accuse Christians of doing

I am claiming that there is NO PROOF that the crucification ever happened. I also believe the Jewish history that Yeshua (Joshua)ben Panthera, a jewish rabi, who was claimed to be Jesus the Christ, lived to the age of 65 and was stoned to death along with five of his disciples.

So you see, there are different version of so-called "history." You can pick and choose which to believe. Yes some of them are liars.

JB

In that sense, as part of the whole, when you accept the responsibility for everything, then you are partly responsible for everything that anyone does to anyone.

So in that respect, you are correct. We are all responsible for everything.

But the story of the crucification is just a story, it never really happened. However, there are horrific things that are unspeakable that man has done to his fellow man that are even worse than that. We all share the responsibility and guilt for that, but as individuals we can only resolve to change ourselves as we cannot change others.

JB

but then again you are blaming everyone when it's not everyone's fault when the will is not their own especially when you just claim that "All Will is God's Will" which is the same as the Christian belief ...you once again like Christians are condemning everyone because of your belief ..It's seems there is really not that much differences in Christianity and Pantheism ...if any

"All will is God's will" is not the same as the Christian belief. Christian's believe that there is God's will and there is your personal will. They separate themselves from god to include their own personal will.

Christianity and Pantheism is similar in many ways even though Christians hate to admit it, but I don't want to get into how they are similar in this post.

But I am not "blaming" anyone for anything. (Blame is when you shift the responsibility from yourself to someone else.)

When we realize that we are one, and that we are all connected then we learn to take our share of responsibility for the collective creation. Those who do not realize this connection do not or will not take their share of responsibility. Each person creates their own reality and the whole collective mind, creates the over-all reality that we share with each other.

JB

I still believe it was a stunt double

I believe it was a "cunning stunt" ... or is that a "stunning ...."

If all will is God's will then it is God who wanted and did the murders, rapes ,stealing ,and all the most disgusting crimes of all .
Then this God is a real bad and savage God ....!.

It was a cunning and stunning stunt of great magnificence that even Whodini would have loved to see how it was done!

God manifests as everything, good and evil. What you call "Evil" is a judgment and comes about by way of the desire to be completely free or simply to exist or survive, which manifests in all the creatures that prime source operates through.

The judgment that god is "real bad or savage and evil" is your judgment and you make judgments.

A lion who kills a innocent fawn is a savage beast. But he is not "evil" he is just trying to survive.

A Chimp in the jungle routinely rapes female chimps but he is not considered "evil" he is just doing what he is programed in his DNA to do.

Humans evolve to learn good from evil and make judgments of what is good and what is evil. Humans do this, not god.

God simply manifests as life. Prime source is not good or evil. It is just a creative force that manifests as all things.

JB

If a creator (GOD ) behaves like a chump or a lion ......then we are in a deep, deep hell .
God surely must know what is good and what is bad as my nephew is only 7 years old and already knows that . This business of manifestations has never been proven by any science or common sense .
So to manifest to create are simple words of imagination .

Whatever or however you want to believe is your business. The true nature or purpose of god cannot be known or proven in any case.

May the force be with you and may you learn to use it!

haven't read the whole thread, dont plan to, "IF" you want to go by the biblical account then the first you have to look at the whole scenario. the devil brought emnity between god and man, sin, and god set up the sacrificial system with the intent to become man/christ and be the ultimate sacrifice to pay for mans sins, Who killed christ? no one. god put the reason in motion, his 2nd part/jesus became god/man and did his fathers will of his own human will. the other players in the action were just necessary items to complete what was to be accomplished.jesus "GAVE" his own life to save all who were to be his. their is no blame to share or go around. he took full resposability for all that happened, his words are written to understand this, he told judas to go and tell the priest where to find him, told peter to put away his sword when he tried to defend him, and told the diciples it was needed for him to do this, he in know way stated that anyone else but himself had anything t do with his death in any way. he gave himself up to be trialed and accused,etc... and so the story goes. If were to believe this then YES, jesus GAVE his life freely, no one took it from him.

he got crucified n stabbed on the cross then he came back then some1 shanked him and GOD gave up on him!