awh.....indeed this be true, but then if a scripture be needed to tell what is truth or not truth, this allow more of what was "thought" that made men WANT to kill him......

if the reason they WANTED to kill him is not known by anyone, then how would they avoid the same happening to them...........


Good point. Especially when you read the passage of obeying the law of the land. Or the law of cursed is any man hanged on a tree. Jesus was a rebel. Take a look at the verse of I came not to bring peace but a sword. Or when he said not my will but thine be done right after he said if it be thy will let this cup pass away from me. And when it says For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. It can make one think that God killed Jesus.

Usually people kill for some reasons including futile reasons as well . He was killed by people who hated him for certain reasons .

Does it not make sense that he was a big threat to the Jewish faifh that was older than Christianity ?. When a threat exists some people turn to killings .

It makes sense to me in a historical view point. I am sure it wouldn't make sense to someone who is religious though. I could be wrong.

If only we could be there when it happened to witness it. Create a time machine will you!!

if someone say to one "the sky is blue", then one does not ponder whether it is true or not true, as one agree, since they have seen the same, so then no statement of true or false be needed........

what looks out it's own eyes and think of itself a fool, and does NOT always learn more.......the meaning of the word "sin", lol.......so then to not have sin one see nothing as foolish or not foolish, and therefore after some time it can come to see the purpose of all things, which make for wisdom.......

so it is seen "sin" only speak of a perception that be had of oneself that stop the mind from learning, lol......

if one say sin exist, and millions have died oever the word, is it not good to see why it was said, before one dismiss as not true, lol........

to know how anything is true, this then allow the excess of what part was not true to be expelled from the mind as waste, just as the body purge itself.......look for truth or untruth, and this natrual process of the mind is stopped.......

say the word fool and most times a violent knee jerk reaction happen from anything that fear itself a possible one, lol.......like it be a cursed word or something, lol........

does not every human love foolish times, and wise times, so each being contain both, and is good or no life can exist

humans most think they are to be "wise" which be a "sinful" or ignorant way of thinking, as to try to be wise, keep unwise, lol.......it can even make ones agressive toward others that do not believe as they, lol......

what that thinks itself be correct in anything will learn more except that each day others be as more wrong, and not see more, lol......it has to, as one owns sum of belief then guide the perception of good and bad, which mean anything marked as bad, will not be learned from, and indeed even why history repeat itself even for individual beings.........

would not the effort of trying to keep anything from repeating make one come to seclusion of others and any data that does ont match what already be contained in the memory, lol.......

which make the circle get smaller and smaller, as all learn at different times different things no matter what the age......

age has nothing to do with wisdom at all.....if so then when a human be born make them more wise, lol.......

you seem to fear most to be incorrect JB, and why you even answer my question with your own reasons of why mirrors statement be not true to you......i did even ask this

have you not heard that the mind does not learn except each time the body feel a negative impulse, and this has convinced any that do not know to gaurd against this feeling and the mind slowly suffer, and if this feeling be heeded long enough, then nothing more is allowed into the mind for digestion.......if this feeling be heeded long enough, the mind goes into hibernation, or just subconscious self-preservation, which then even propell the body with physical bigger impulses against anything that is not of like matter or knowledge......

so the scientific meaning of the word "sin" and the religious come together......did i not read your post once and remember you said religion and science would come together........

this "sin" lead to no feeling of alive by the body, as the mind itself is telling the body it is sufficating and need air, or more knowledge, as the mind is fed only when new data is willing to be seen without bias, of love nor fear of whatver is read......subconscious take control, and not even by physical effort the emotions take over the body, and this state cause the collapse of the potential of all beings to come to be "all knowing" as intended when the mind was designed........

if you do not see you did not answer my question, that is ok, as i did not expect or not expect an answer, but rather it was intended as food for thought...........i give my honest response to your answer, and it is not colored by any good or bad of what you might think, as i see many humans MOST wish for all things to be answered as such..........peace

Good point. Especially when you read the passage of obeying the law of the land. Or the law of cursed is any man hanged on a tree. Jesus was a rebel. Take a look at the verse of I came not to bring peace but a sword. Or when he said not my will but thine be done right after he said if it be thy will let this cup pass away from me. And when it says For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. It can make one think that God killed Jesus.



--------------------------------------------------------------

the law spoken to be damned was the religious laws......

indeed he came that it would be fulfilled that human would come to be able to speak all, for the swrod of life and death lay on the tongue, and men thought he meant kill others, but even peter he said no leave that poor guy in peace that chop off my ear, lol..........

begotten mean only one of.......all were called as children of god, and i see no two alike..........so when jesus said he was the son of god was for a purpose, for he knew all would have to see that if all are children, then there be millions of sons and millions of daughters, lol..........jesus never created anything, but rather god......jesus never made any claim of himself, but rather men that WISHED to be like him, so naturally, after he died, then they all began saying what they thought about what he said, and since each had AGENDA to be either like him or not like him, this biased all words spoken and written about him.......

indeed, he said to his mind, i don't wanna do this, but his heart knew that was why he came......each experience this same feeling when the heart loves one that hurt them, and the mind say NO.......why each human to follow each their own heart and not any religion lead all to peace..........indeed, it is not spoken much that the bible say "god" rest in the "heart" of each man, lol.............peace

knowing those "certain reasons" would certainally keep those same things from repeating.........he was killed by ones that did not want to even begin to HEAR that maybe they did not know all, and could learn just a little more........they felt as though they were being proven wrong, but this feeling accompany any learning it would seem, as if one already knew it, it would NEVER be the same as what already known, lol.......peace

Christianity as a new religion in the region was a real threat to Judaism that was there for centuries .So the Jews finished him for once and for all and that what I always believed .

Christianity as a new religion in the region was a real threat to Judaism that was there for centuries .So the Jews finished him for once and for all and that what I always believed .

Personally I think it all depends on what your theory on Jesus really is. It seems there are different thoughts on this .My own thoughts are that I don't know what is fact or fiction,.

No serious historian debates this. Jesus' crucifixion happened on the one day of the year when Jerusalem was most crowded. The event was recorded (by the Apostles) and discussed (by the Apostles) in Jerusalem while people who witnessed the crucifixion would have still been alive. Someone died on that cross and the people and apostles unquestioningly believed that person to be Jesus. The Apostles preached Jesus' divinity and proclaimed him the Messiah, which brought torture and execution to all of them (except John, his execution failed). No rational human would continue to repeat a lie while being tortured, when the truth would end the torture. Historians and legal scholars who have studied the accounts in the New Testament can't help but come to the conclusion that Jesus was crucified and the apostles believed that he was resurrected.

Perhaps Jesus had a twin brother no one talked about??

Or maybe there was a man who looked like Jesus and the real Jesus was never crucified indicating why he returned? Maybe they just put holes in his hands and feet(which I could imagine is painful) and then when he (ressurrected as they say) was never ressurrected in reality - came to the public and showed everyone his hands and feet as proof that he did ressurrect.

And the man who wasn't Jesus but looked like him (stunt double) was actually nailed on the cross as everyone believed it to be him. They took him off the cross and hid him somewhere!

I know, I know this sounds yet again irrational!!

but everything is possible.

The fact that Thomas stuck his hand into an open wound on Jesus' side disproves the possibility of a twin. That event happened in front of 10 witnesses, the other apostles. Jesus also appeared in the room that the apostles were hiding in, although the door was locked. A Scooby-Doo style secret door perhaps? The more you attempt to remove the supernatural from the account of Jesus' life, the more irrational the explanations become. If you don't believe, then don't believe! But why try to convince other's to disbelieve as you do?

I am not trying to convince anyone for not believing, otherwise I would say "IT WAS" instead of "PERHAPS" in the events that happened 2000 years ago.

I also do not say I believe what I said, but say perhaps this could have happened. I know that the bible says otherwise, yet the point being is we don't know. We will never know what truly happened for we were not there.

Yes, yet I know maybe you do know and you keep telling people that what is written and accounted for by witnesses is enough proof for you to believe it to be true. Nevertheless, it is yet again your opinion that others share and yet again others who do not agree.

irrational no.......indeed, agree with what your wisdom speaks smiless.............peace

Are you in any way tellig me that the faithfuls do not agree on how their Jesus was killed and still believe that he is everything and anything of good ?.

You should read about Simon Greenleaf. Simon was an expert on law, his law books were used as textbooks for nearly a 100 years. He was a devoted atheist who decided that he would disprove the gospels using methods used on testimony in a courtroom. His efforts resulted in him becoming a Christian, because the testimony could not be denied. If a man with such an incredible legal mind finds the testimony of the New Testament so convincing, I find myself wondering how anyone can easily dismiss the same testimony.

I will read it, but it kind of sounds like you are trying to convince others to believe in your faith and the bible. You say: I find myself wondering how anyone can easily dismiss the same testimony.

Hence also what you say on the last email up two: But why try to convince other's to disbelieve as you do?

I personally say maybe, but you state that it is a fact in your opinion. There is a difference.

One must also not forget there were alot of great minds who didn't believe in the testaments or for that matter of the bible making them atheists. I could add a list full of such scholars, yet I am sure you know a few of them already.

The fact is that there will always be some who believe and some who don't. The only way this could change is if everyone is forced to believe in these religious scriptures. If forced to believe then I guess that would be called dictatorship or facism at its best.

I also must say that I am not a atheist. If you have the notion to believe so then so be it, yet I am a non religous person who is spiritual. I just don't follow man made religious documents to have faith.

to base anything on one thing, prove there is first agenda to believe in one thing, and this wholly shows what the agenda be by way of what book is believed in........

there is much good reason to believe in the bible, as all things spoken have truth, but the very words of the text damn any motive to believe for purposes of removing guilt or proving what be truth or not truth.......

the bible be the only book known to man that condem each and every act of humans, and yet at the same time there be another verse somewhere that uncondems.......

one can find within the pages vindication of "rightness" for any act......murder, molestation, rape....... so then it becomes as a moot point.....

to quote from any book show anything has not it's own wisdom yet, but rather a desire to prove what is true or not true, as if an understanding of all words spoken by any author is had, then any words once written have now become as alive, part of the fabric or understanding of a being, then greater wisdom then before come forth, as each being have intelligence, and if this is mixed with anothers intelligence or words, then there is more.....not the same or equal......

does any that know 2+2 quote where they learned such.....not even a quote needed for one that does not know yet what 2+2 is, as the one that teach know themself HOW and WHY 2+2 is 4.......

can anything be added to something and it stay the same, then neither can words or wisdom........peace

That is absolutely untrue. Believe whatever you want to believe, but please don't spout lies about another's religion.