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| Topic: Jesus......?. | |
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Who do you really think killed Jesus ?. How could anyone be accused of killing him? No body... He was seen by many eyewitness after his supposed death... you do the math. It is a myth to keep the hope of the faithfuls . |
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Who do you really think killed Jesus ?. How could anyone be accused of killing him? No body... He was seen by many eyewitness after his supposed death... you do the math. Very interesting.... There are rumors that someone else hung on the cross. The gospel of St Peter wrote that it was Simon. If Jesus was seen alive after his supposed death, then the logical conclusion is that he didn't die, not that he rose from death. Nobody actually saw him rise from the dead. JB |
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if god killed jesus, then whomever nailed the nail, stuck the spear would be god........this is not to speak that be what is true, but rather this be the illogic that say god killed jesus........that does not hold to logic, as no human has ever seen god, and has no proof of such, nor what "god" can look like, then "whom" be god.......... the spear and the nails didn't kill Jesus or Jesus would have died instantly ...Jesus may have even recovered from those injuries if treated and for all anyone knows Jesus could have died from a inoperable Brain Aneurysm that had nothing to do with his wounds ..so exactly how Jesus died is all speculation ... that is why in Christian belief when it comes to matters of life and death if is left in the hands of God ...so it wasn't Jesus or Jesus's wounds that made the decision to take Jesus's life because Jesus do not control life and death .. God controls life and death and no matter what anyone did to Jesus or Jesus did to himself he could not die unless it was God's Will .. Right on Funches. Can't disagree with a word of this. However, we are aware medically of the consequence of crucifiction, and how it leads to death. Primarily of suffocation through exhaustion - ultimately leading to the lungs collapsing, and the victim drowning in their own blood. The gospel accounts do not contradict this as a possibility for "how" his death may have occured. But we will never know exactly the cause of death, as there was no autopsy, and the ultimate cause of death could have possibly been blunt force trauma. and that is when the role of the Roman that speared Jesus comes into this drama ...when people are crucified on the cross others will break there legs to hasten their death ...but no one broke Jesus's legs and also no none knew if Jesus was dead or alive and that is why St. Longinus stuck the spear into Jesus and out came water and blood that may have relieved the pressure on Jesus"s lungs from the fluid buildup and this may have stopped Jesus from suffocating ...so it's a possibilty that Jesus may not have died on the cross and could have recovered from his wounds .. If that were the case - than Historians missed one of the major events of the first century - someone surviving crucifiction! But wait a minute. They took him down from the cross - laid him in a tomb and sealed it. Stationed guards around the tomb (so the disciples wouldn't steal the body. If he'd pulled off an "escape from Alcatraz" sort of thing - THAT would have been recorded as the second biggest event of the first century. I don't have much belief in this premise. |
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Who killed Jesus?..mirror is right..we all did. Though the event happened 2,000 years ago, the crucifiction process continues into the present...threads like this usually degenerate into a perfect example of it if they are long enough.Christ took his "punishment" with love in his heart..on purpose. In order for Man to receive salvation across the board, love had to persevere through terrible trial and Christ accomplished this. So the joke is on us all..we are saved by that grace whether we like it or not and no amount of petty arguement over scripture and the like is going to change that...try loving someone unconditionally while they rip you a new one and experience the true power and purpose of the atonement..  The story about the crucification is pure myth and was a passion play performed on stage. It never happened in real life. So NO WE DID NOT KILL JESUS. That is a guilt trip the Church loves to hang on people. And even if the story of a crucification of a man called Jesus or Joshua or what ever his real name was is true, it happened 2000 years ago and had nothing to do with us. So NO, WE DID NOT KILL JESUS. That idea is pure myth and pure ridiculous. JB So now you are claiming that every historian of the first century a liar! Do you think that the Holocaust was a hoax too? What proof of that event do we have that can't be easily dismissed as you do the historical account of the cruxifiction? I am claiming that there is NO PROOF that the crucification ever happened. I also believe the Jewish history that Yeshua (Joshua)ben Panthera, a jewish rabi, who was claimed to be Jesus the Christ, lived to the age of 65 and was stoned to death along with five of his disciples. So you see, there are different version of so-called "history." You can pick and choose which to believe. Yes some of them are liars. JB Well - it is recorded in Josephus. THE accepted Historian of the first century (who was not a disciple by the way) Picking and chosing what you want to believe seems to be how you chose to understand History. You selectively decide which Jewish historian you wish to believe. |
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haven't read the whole thread, dont plan to, "IF" you want to go by the biblical account then the first you have to look at the whole scenario. the devil brought emnity between god and man, sin, and god set up the sacrificial system with the intent to become man/christ and be the ultimate sacrifice to pay for mans sins, Who killed christ? no one. god put the reason in motion, his 2nd part/jesus became god/man and did his fathers will of his own human will. the other players in the action were just necessary items to complete what was to be accomplished.jesus "GAVE" his own life to save all who were to be his. their is no blame to share or go around. he took full resposability for all that happened, his words are written to understand this, he told judas to go and tell the priest where to find him, told peter to put away his sword when he tried to defend him, and told the diciples it was needed for him to do this, he in know way stated that anyone else but himself had anything t do with his death in any way. he gave himself up to be trialed and accused,etc... and so the story goes. If were to believe this then YES, jesus GAVE his life freely, no one took it from him. Is there any reason why this thread is still going on after this post? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 07/15/08 04:38 PM
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Who killed Jesus?..mirror is right..we all did. Though the event happened 2,000 years ago, the crucifiction process continues into the present...threads like this usually degenerate into a perfect example of it if they are long enough.Christ took his "punishment" with love in his heart..on purpose. In order for Man to receive salvation across the board, love had to persevere through terrible trial and Christ accomplished this. So the joke is on us all..we are saved by that grace whether we like it or not and no amount of petty arguement over scripture and the like is going to change that...try loving someone unconditionally while they rip you a new one and experience the true power and purpose of the atonement.. The story about the crucification is pure myth and was a passion play performed on stage. It never happened in real life. So NO WE DID NOT KILL JESUS. That is a guilt trip the Church loves to hang on people. And even if the story of a crucification of a man called Jesus or Joshua or what ever his real name was is true, it happened 2000 years ago and had nothing to do with us. So NO, WE DID NOT KILL JESUS. That idea is pure myth and pure ridiculous. JB So now you are claiming that every historian of the first century a liar! Do you think that the Holocaust was a hoax too? What proof of that event do we have that can't be easily dismissed as you do the historical account of the cruxifiction? I am claiming that there is NO PROOF that the crucification ever happened. I also believe the Jewish history that Yeshua (Joshua)ben Panthera, a jewish rabi, who was claimed to be Jesus the Christ, lived to the age of 65 and was stoned to death along with five of his disciples. So you see, there are different version of so-called "history." You can pick and choose which to believe. Yes some of them are liars. JB Well - it is recorded in Josephus. THE accepted Historian of the first century (who was not a disciple by the way) Picking and chosing what you want to believe seems to be how you chose to understand History. You selectively decide which Jewish historian you wish to believe. No, that is what you do. I don't actually believe (or disbelieve) any of it. I just pick the one that seems most believable for a temporary conclusion or belief. That can always change with new information. I am just aware that they do not all agree. But then the Church selectively decides what scripture to include in the Bible. Obviously they did not all agree. They also picked and chose which ones they wanted to believe or which ones suited their agenda. Who knows what went on back then. None of us was there. JB |
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Very interesting.... There are rumors that someone else hung on the cross. The gospel of St Peter wrote that it was Simon. If Jesus was seen alive after his supposed death, then the logical conclusion is that he didn't die, not that he rose from death. Nobody actually saw him rise from the dead. JB There are also manuscript that actually document that Jesus did in fact die on the cross and was buried in that cave, as the four gospels all confirm. Tell me this though: how would a religion that is based on a lie survive for 2000 years throughout history? The core of Christianity is that Jesus died for our sins so that we could have a relationship with God and he rose again, defeating death and sin, so we can also live forever like him and no longer fall to sin (which keeps us away from God). If people wouldn't be experiencing this in their own lives, would the faith die pretty quickly, since it wouldn't "work"? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 07/15/08 04:25 PM
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haven't read the whole thread, dont plan to, "IF" you want to go by the biblical account then the first you have to look at the whole scenario. the devil brought emnity between god and man, sin, and god set up the sacrificial system with the intent to become man/christ and be the ultimate sacrifice to pay for mans sins, Who killed christ? no one. god put the reason in motion, his 2nd part/jesus became god/man and did his fathers will of his own human will. the other players in the action were just necessary items to complete what was to be accomplished.jesus "GAVE" his own life to save all who were to be his. their is no blame to share or go around. he took full resposability for all that happened, his words are written to understand this, he told judas to go and tell the priest where to find him, told peter to put away his sword when he tried to defend him, and told the diciples it was needed for him to do this, he in know way stated that anyone else but himself had anything t do with his death in any way. he gave himself up to be trialed and accused,etc... and so the story goes. If were to believe this then YES, jesus GAVE his life freely, no one took it from him. Is there any reason why this thread is still going on after this post? If this was the commonly held belief then this should have been the last post. It assumes the story is true. Okay. But if this is the truth I wonder why I was made to feel guilty for Christ's death. I was told that he died for MY SINS... not his own, and not because he was suicidal, but for MY sins. That is a guilt trip, plain and simple. It states because I (actually all mankind) have "sinned" he had to die. I don't think that makes sense, and it didn't when I was a child either. But Hey, if you want to agree that Jesus was totally responsible for his death, then that is fine with me. His death had nothing to do with me or my sins. JB |
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if god killed jesus, then whomever nailed the nail, stuck the spear would be god........this is not to speak that be what is true, but rather this be the illogic that say god killed jesus........that does not hold to logic, as no human has ever seen god, and has no proof of such, nor what "god" can look like, then "whom" be god.......... the spear and the nails didn't kill Jesus or Jesus would have died instantly ...Jesus may have even recovered from those injuries if treated and for all anyone knows Jesus could have died from a inoperable Brain Aneurysm that had nothing to do with his wounds ..so exactly how Jesus died is all speculation ... that is why in Christian belief when it comes to matters of life and death if is left in the hands of God ...so it wasn't Jesus or Jesus's wounds that made the decision to take Jesus's life because Jesus do not control life and death .. God controls life and death and no matter what anyone did to Jesus or Jesus did to himself he could not die unless it was God's Will .. Right on Funches. Can't disagree with a word of this. However, we are aware medically of the consequence of crucifiction, and how it leads to death. Primarily of suffocation through exhaustion - ultimately leading to the lungs collapsing, and the victim drowning in their own blood. The gospel accounts do not contradict this as a possibility for "how" his death may have occured. But we will never know exactly the cause of death, as there was no autopsy, and the ultimate cause of death could have possibly been blunt force trauma. and that is when the role of the Roman that speared Jesus comes into this drama ...when people are crucified on the cross others will break there legs to hasten their death ...but no one broke Jesus's legs and also no none knew if Jesus was dead or alive and that is why St. Longinus stuck the spear into Jesus and out came water and blood that may have relieved the pressure on Jesus"s lungs from the fluid buildup and this may have stopped Jesus from suffocating ...so it's a possibilty that Jesus may not have died on the cross and could have recovered from his wounds .. If that were the case - than Historians missed one of the major events of the first century - someone surviving crucifiction! But wait a minute. They took him down from the cross - laid him in a tomb and sealed it. Stationed guards around the tomb (so the disciples wouldn't steal the body. If he'd pulled off an "escape from Alcatraz" sort of thing - THAT would have been recorded as the second biggest event of the first century. I don't have much belief in this premise. and "Eljay" do you know who it was that guarded that tomb Jesus supposely were in ..it was St. Longinus and his men .. the same St. Longinus that pierced Jesus in the side with his spear and then claimed that Jesus truely was the son of God after he believed that Jesus's blood cured his eyesight .. this means that Jesus didn't need to do a David Copperfield to escape out of that tomb because St. Longinus and his men became followers of Jesus at that point in time...which means they could have taken Jesus off the cross before Jesus died or they never placed Jesus in the tomb or they could have simply let Jesus out of the tomb to receive medical treatment ..so that makes it's a strong possibility that Jesus lived on |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 07/15/08 04:40 PM
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Very interesting.... There are rumors that someone else hung on the cross. The gospel of St Peter wrote that it was Simon. If Jesus was seen alive after his supposed death, then the logical conclusion is that he didn't die, not that he rose from death. Nobody actually saw him rise from the dead. JB There are also manuscript that actually document that Jesus did in fact die on the cross and was buried in that cave, as the four gospels all confirm. Tell me this though: how would a religion that is based on a lie survive for 2000 years throughout history? It has only survived amongst a select group, and many of those back then who rejected this lie (that Jesus is god) were put to death by the sword. Opposition was met with annihilation. It got to the point that one dare not call it a lie or appose it if they wanted to live. That is the truth of it. The core of Christianity is that Jesus died for our sins so that we could have a relationship with God and he rose again, defeating death and sin, so we can also live forever like him and no longer fall to sin (which keeps us away from God). If people wouldn't be experiencing this in their own lives, would the faith die pretty quickly, since it wouldn't "work"? People are not "living forever" and they are still falling to sin, so it apparently has not worked at all. People still sin and people still die. Nothing has changed. People are just believing in a myth just like they believed in Santa Claus when they were young. That is my take on it, sorry. But it really doesn't matter. None of it really matters. It is all just opinions, and everybody has one. May the force be with you and may you learn to use it.  JB |
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Edited by
sam53
on
Tue 07/15/08 06:21 PM
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People are not "living forever" and they are still falling to sin, so it apparently has not worked at all. People still sin and people still die. Nothing has changed. People are just believing in a myth just like they believed in Santa Claus when they were young. That is my take on it, sorry. But it really doesn't matter. None of it really matters. It is all just opinions, and everybody has one. May the force be with you and may you learn to use it. JB Agreed :   .
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