Why is it that christians have to make you feel less for not believeing the same as them?

Amen

same song ~ different day...


I'll pass on reading the rest ...


It is soooooooooo tiring...

They are so blind they know not what they do.

I fully understand what you are saying Eljay. I actually went down that road myself for quite a long period of time. But in reality it's truly not doable. It's just reduces to a 'pick-and-choose' religion then.

It also suggests that God changes. To suggest that the Old Testament only applied to specific people at a specific time in history has two implications,..

First off, if God wanted ancient men to stone their unruly children to death why would he change his desire of that commandment now? Maybe we could imagine that instead of stoning them so brutally, perhaps today we should be giving them lethal injections. But there's really not reason to believe that a supposedly unchanging God would change his mind about what he wants from us in general.

Secondly, if the Old Testament is no longer applicable to modern society then it's time for God to write a new book. But we don't see that happening. The bible basically ends with Jesus and there is supposedly nothing knew to add until Jesus himself returns.

So the "Designer Christianity" isn't going to work. You can't separate Jesus from the Old Testament.

I've tried, and it's not doable, you'll never get mainstream Christianity to go along with that because the idea basically reeks of a dramatic change in the genuinely foundations of the religion.

Remove the Old Testament for example, and Christians could no longer use it as an excuse to be bigoted toward gays.

In fact, even fornication would no longer stand. Fornication itself is not included in the 10 commandments. Only adultery is.

In other words, if you could succeed in getting mainstream society to accept your "Designer Christianity" then Christianity would not longer be what it is today.

And again, this ideal might work good for you personally, but for me, the very idea that all men are sinners and need to seek repentance from the sacrificial lamb of God, is also a non-workable idea once you move into the concept of "Designer Christianity". The whole thing falls apart.

I didn't take this lightly Eljay. I began to realize that Christianity had problems in my late teens right after having been saved.

But I didn't completely abandon the religion until I was in my 30's. I continued to cling to the Old Rugged Cross, dragging it with me with both guilt and shame. Tying my best to 'save' Jesus via methods of "Designer Christianity".

I finally realized that I wasn't dragging around an Old Rugged Cross at all. I had actually been dragging around a dead horse of mythology.

When I finally dumped it, it was indeed a lightening of my of load. I no longer needed to defend the dead horse of mythology.

A solution for salvation?

The "Sin Problem"?

You say that I'm not offering a solution for the "Sin Problem"?

I'm saying the whole bible is the made up mythology of man.

There is no such thing as 'sin'. Sin is disobedience to an authoritarian God.

If I don't believe that the bible is the word of God, then the very idea of 'sin' is a meaningless concept to me.

A lot of people think this way, and they can't understand how I can suggest that there is no such thing as 'sin'.

They immediately say, "If there is no such thing as sin then would it be ok to run around murdering people?"

What kind of a question is that????

Are they suggesting that they would like to run around murdering people and the only thing that is stopping them is because they think it's against God's wishes?

How pathetic is that?

What about atheists? There are many very good-natured atheists who wouldn't dream of brining harm to anyone.

Imagine now for just a moment that there is a God who doesn't want people to murder others.

WHO do you think God is going to have more LOVE for?

A Christian who would love to kill his neighbor but resists the urge only because he thinks God will get peeved and punish him?

Or the atheists who resists the urge to kill his neighbor simply because of his own personal morality?

Who do you think that God would be more appreciative of?

People who automatically have the same moral values as him?

Or people who only resist their true desires because they are afraid of God?

The "Sin Concept" is absurd and totally unnecessary.

People who need to be frightened into having good morals are in serious need of help Eljay.

I seriously hope that you wouldn't run out and become a murderer tomorrow if you suddenly discovered that there is no God.

If they only thing that keeps you 'in-line' is the fear of punishment or the lust for a reward by a supreme being, then you're truly in sad shape.

Albert Einstein held this very view, and I concur.

"Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." - Albert Einstein

The whole idea of religion being some kind of solution to a "Sin Problem" is absurd. There is no such thing as a "Sin Problem". All that exists are humans and their own moral values.

Trying to bring a supreme authoritarian into the picture to try to solve a so-called 'Sin Problem' is a futile idea.

Sure, if the religion scares some people into being good, that's great!

Unfortunately it doesn't work very well for that anyway. Because the kinds of people who prefer to rape, murder, and steal etc. typically don't really give a damn what God thinks anyway.

There is no "Salvation problem" or "Sin Problem" to be resolved.

If you can't be a good person as an atheist, then fundamentally your not a good person as a Christian. You're just pretending to be good to win the favor of a God. And the only possible reason that you would do that, is fear of punishment, or lust for a reward.

If can't be good on your own merit isn't that ultimately pathetic?

I don't think I ever mentioned "Monty Python." I am not familiar with your reference to Monty Python at all. I don't get my facts from Monty Python. (and I don't know who "Brian" is.)

The "idea" of a savior is not "exclusive" to the new testament. The myths of a savior god who died for the sins of mankind have been circulated long before the Bible was even written. I am not talking about anything that is "foretold" in the old testament. These are connected to old pagan religions.

JB

A solution to the "sin" problem Eljay? LOL

Here is the solution to that:

Abandon Christianity.

The term "sin" is meaningless outside of religious doctrine. The basic meaning of "sin" is the disobedience of your Lord and Master Jehovah, owner of human slaves. Yes owner.

His law is "The wages of sin is death." That is your god's law.

To disobey your master is punishable by death. Period. This is the law of your god.

~Unless you are forgiven and pardoned.~

He has the right to kill you if you disobey. What good are disobedient and unruly servants or slaves to a god who needs and wants worship and blind obedience?

You find "merit" in the ten commandments? That's nice. So that means you should be a Christian? Have you really thought this through? Do you truly need religion to tell you right from wrong? If so, by all means, stay where you are, get forgiveness for your disobedience and pardoned from death from your master.

JB

Abra wrote:




The idea that you should stone your unruly children to death came from the Biblical god because that is the basic law ~(for us)~from the Biblical god.

"The wages of sin is death." To disobey means that you die. That is your punishment. If it is good enough for the Biblical god, then it should be good enough for us.

Do we have more compassion than the Biblical god? We must, since we are not stoning our disobedient children.

However, if you look at history, you will find that in America there was a law passed against the cruelty to animals before any laws were passed against cruelty to children. What do you suppose took us so long?

JB

"Fanta" NASA has been known for causing mostly blunders which is why it's under-funded it can barely launch a space shuttle without a "heating tile" falling off so the government and the public is not going to allow NASA to place a nuclear reactor on a spaceship so that it could possible explode in the atmosphere ...are you insane??????



"Fanta" everything exist in the mind and on the sci-fi channel but that doesn't mean it exist in reality



"Fanta" let's clear up this infinity issue ..tell of something that exist in "reality" that is infinite...and then explain how you know it is infinite

Nope. It is a problem of the mentally weak that they do not control their own feelings so they blame others for their weakness. Grow a pair. You CAN have control of your feelings. You don't need mommy to wash your underwear anymore. Time to be a man. Yew con do eet.

sorry Eljay but non-believers burning in the fires of Hell is all part of "God's Divine Plan" ...it was God's will to designed a way to torture those that didn't obey him and he created the "Fires of Hell" to get the job done ...therefore God is the torturer

"Eljay"...why is it so hard for you guys to conceive that numbers are not reality but only use as a tool to count reality ....in other words "Eljay" explain what in reality is the finite of PI or what in reality exist as one-third of 100

we have a lot in common AJ. i to was raised catholic til the 8th grade. so i know where your coming from. I understand that from the first grade you are "taught" about god and what "roman carholocism" teaches about the bible through the use of the catechism book in school. and also religious classes every day. you say you found out about jesus? of course you did - but not on your own - no one i've wever talked to has "found out about jesus" - on their own. It "requires" someone telling you about him for you to know of him. From the time i left catholocism my life sonds much like yours - i never read the bible either as a catholic, there are few catholics i knew or know that do on a daily weekly or even yearly basis, most have one, but its just an ornament to take with you, especially true of the older ones who like me did not speak the language of latin, so it was no more than pompous ceremony.i studied all religions over a long time also and found "no" religion worth my time, effort, support, or belief in. When i finally returned to "christianity" i was 26, and it was through a friend of mine - a jewish carpenter by trade - no it was not jesus hahaha. his name was willy bogen, a jewish kid who had come upon a book called late great planet earth - that was my entrance into it because i saw what i believed an incredible change in willy that shocked me - so i looked into it - i started out looking into the prophetic ends of things and went on from there but it was a few years before i actually picked up the bible as a whole book to read and upon doing so i saw way to much contradiction in ti and that was when my questioning began of it's "infallability". I'm skeptical by nature and a doubting thomas by nature as a result.but besides that i believe in core logic and using the power of reason and common sense that i have, and sense told me that this was the work of men not an all knowing all powerful god or if it was - he was acting to much like a man and not enough like the god he wants to portray himself to be - , you may not think you need the book AJ, but you do, you may think that you found out of jesus on your own without the book, but you did not, you as i have been duped by the going's on of organized religion - and i say all religion not just christianity. i hope you find your way through it, but if not good luck. by the way willy and the rest of us are no longer christians, or believers.

Im sorry but this is funny reading

Designer Christianity

That's rich.....

I've already given you one example!
The spaceship is a reality!

"explain how you know it is infinite"

hmmmmm,,,,,

If I told you Id have to kill ya!!

"Fanta" that spaceship is theorically useless because with today's technology it would be a suicide mission for the astro-nuts on board and with a nueclear reactor part of the load it would be too dangerous to even launch ..if NASA tried to launch that spacecreaft The United States along with The United Nations would have to invade Houston or nuke it




well it appears that question popped you back into reality

a little tough love here...


but, oh ....Someone's gotta do it ...