How do yo know there is a god. Give me actual empirical evidence. My life is ****, even when i believed in the giant invisible man it kept getting worse. Aparantly in most church culture, you follow some bull**** the guy on the pulpit says and you are going to heaven. If those sheep are going to heaven, then yes, i will prefer hell.

Abra;

Get out your logic book and look up "shifting middle".

You may equate God to the bible, I do not. I do not "worship" the bible - it is a book of words. It has limits. It does not contain all that there is to know about God. It's merely a "road map". A tool for guidance. It's not a recipe book.

How could they?

It's all about shoving doctrine down people's throats.

It's all about demanding that people believe a book.

Without the book what do they have?

Nothing!

They aren't asking people to believe in God, they are asking people to believe in a BOOK!

Pure and simple.

Christianity doesn't have anything to do with God at all.

All it has to do with is the absurd belief that the Bible is the word of God.

That's all it is. Nothing more.

All Chrisitans are doing is asking people to believe that the Bible is the correct picture of God.

And if a person refuses to beleive that then they claim that the person is rejecting "God".

It's utterly STUPID.

I like to think that there's is no division of Heaven or Hell. Everyone go to the same place, it just that those enlighten see it as Heaven while those that are blinded by ignorance, hate and of self delusion see it as Hell.

"tribo" it's you that refused to believe that infinity doesn't exist but is only a term used to describe the vastness of something and you keep trying to sneak references in to show that infinity does exist

for example you keep saying that in truth colors and numbers are only infinite if there is someone here or in another plane of existence to used them ..but that makes no diffeence when it comes to numbers because without a reality to count and apply the numbers too the person counting may as well be babbling and of course the colors are limited to the range of the visible light of the spectrum and anything limited can not be infinite

so the bottom line is that numbers and colors are not infinite

Actually, if you really want to know what Christians believe, it is NOT that the bible is the word of God. Jesus is the word.

I think that my biggest concern is for the people that choose to think differently or were never given a chance. I basically comes down to "you believe in god (of one of the many religions), you be a good boy or girl and you go to heaven". What about those who live good lives, making right decisions but dont believe in god? Do they go to hell? If so how is that fair? What if god is Christian? Does god except all those of other religions? Or because they didnt believe in the Christian God must spend eternity in hell? That doesnt seem fair?

Now Ive never been religious. However when I had a baby and that baby died at 12 days old, my fate was seeled. I can not believe in something that would take the life of a newborn (and please dont give me that crap about "she's in a better place" or "God needed her"). And to top it off....while at my ex's church I was told that because I was unmarried when I gave birth it was my sins that caused my childs death. What is that? How can anyone believe in something with all power that lets so much bad happen to so many innocents?

Just my opinion. Sorry if I offended anyone, truly.

Dear heart...you need to know that God loves you. If you committed murder He would forgive you. If you were a terrorist & asked Him to forgive you for killing someone He would not only forgive you but throw ALL your iniquites into the sea of forgetfulness to remember them no more.

That is the point of the prodical son.... His father never asked questions...just loved him so much he welcomed him back with opened arms.

Honestly... this whole topic of sins & consequences is one thing, to keep people from future heartaches etc etc, but Christians should not be in the business of kicking someone when they are down. Honey...I am sorry that someone would say that to you. I am also sorry for your loss. Tragedy is just that...tragedy. Give yourself time to grieve & don't let people get you down. Don't worry about your baby...just get yourself right with God & everything will work out fine.

AJ,

do you really believe that if you had never read the bible you would think and believe as you now do? and once you did reach the point your at - if it is just a road map then why continue reading it? do you look at road maps of the usa or world every day? if you know where your going - what good does it do you or other's who say it's not really necessary or even some saying they would be just as christian about it? I've heard from MS, and feral and others cherub included that the book is not what saves them but jesus or belief in him - yet would anyone know of jesus and or how to accept him without the word's? the question has to be answered once and for all- is the"BOOK" necessary to become or "be" a christian? is the book necessary for being a christian at all? yes - or - no? can you become a christian and follow jesus as he intended or as the writers intended and live accordingly without the words in your book or without you or others repeating the words in your book or any other books spouting the same things? can i or anyone be saved by one saying no more than ""if you believe on his name ye shall be saved"" without knowing what it is that i'm to believe? and if your answer is "yes" - why then would god have bothered to have it written to begin with? saying its a road map is not acceptable as an answer - if the book is absolutely not important, has no real value to becoming christian whatsoever, as to accepting god,son,and spirit, then get rid of it, stop the contraversy and confusion of the useless book.

Thank you for your concern. And I have grieved its been over 6 years, but thanks for your thought.

However...what you said was kinda my point. I dont believe in God so why would I ask for "his" forgivness? Just like others out there who either dont believe or believe in something else? Like Pagans for one...who get the worst rap as being evil, but in reality are not evil in the least...infact the christian religion is based off of the Pagan religion. Back in the day when there were wars over christian and pagan belifes...they compermissed on a lot and kind of imigrated the two religions together. And now pagans are the bad guys? lol

I think that my biggest concern is for the people that choose to think differently or were never given a chance. I basically comes down to "you believe in god (of one of the many religions), you be a good boy or girl and you go to heaven". What about those who live good lives, making right decisions but dont believe in god? Do they go to hell? If so how is that fair? What if god is Christian? Does god except all those of other religions? Or because they didnt believe in the Christian God must spend eternity in hell? That doesnt seem fair?

Now Ive never been religious. However when I had a baby and that baby died at 12 days old, my fate was seeled. I can not believe in something that would take the life of a newborn (and please dont give me that crap about "she's in a better place" or "God needed her"). And to top it off....while at my ex's church I was told that because I was unmarried when I gave birth it was my sins that caused my childs death. What is that? How can anyone believe in something with all power that lets so much bad happen to so many innocents?

Just my opinion. Sorry if I offended anyone, truly.

Eljay wrote:

I really don't understand this image you have of the bible intimidating me into anything? What is it you think I'm missing out of life because I happen to believe the book has merit? Like I'm being held back from the great joy of life because I happen to have faith in a God that provides for me?
That God has "robbed me of the joy of life" because I happen to think his "rules" (as it's so often mislabeled) are holding me back? I find that humorous. I mean - what is your point? I just don't get what you are attempting to make me see?

You may equate God to the bible, I do not. I do not "worship" the bible - it is a book of words. It has limits. It does not contain all that there is to know about God. It's merely a "road map". A tool for guidance. It's not a recipe book.

Actually, if you really want to know what Christians believe, it is NOT that the bible is the word of God. Jesus is the word.

Eljay,



No, they believe and they have said over and over and over that the Bible is the inspired word of God.

Also, the Bible is not simply an "account of" the life of Jesus. That so-called account is only in the new testament.

In fact the man's real name was Yeshu'a (Joeseph) ben Panthera. He was a Jewish Rabi who was tagged with the savior myth and the Roman Catholic Church claimed that he was the "Messiah."

The life of this man (Joseph ben Panthera) was not accurately told in the new testament. What was told was a rewritten copy of an age old myth of a savior god who dies for the sins all of mankind. (There were about 17 mythical savior gods maybe more..)

These were age old pagan myths. They were used in building Christianity in order to gain pagan converts and followers.

JB

You can't sweep the God of Abraham under the carpet and claim that Jesus is God. That idea isn't workable. It has no substance.

I tend to believe that the idea of a savior is not exclusive to the New Testament. All throughout the Old Testament there is the foretelling of the savior. The analogies and metaphores are everywhere.

Your personal view of the religion is totally irrelevant. It is works for you, more power to you. I'm not trying to claim that your own personal 'Designer Christianity' is wrong.

I'm speaking to the issue of the organized religion, and of what the actual doctrine must mean in spite of your personal distortion of it.

For example, you say,...



It really doesn't matter that there may be more to God that what is in the book. That doesn't change the fact that everything that is in the book must necessarily be the word of God. Otherwise you'd have to concede that the book isn't the word of God.

But as soon as you do that, then you're in agreement with me.

You either accept that the Bible is the word of God or you don't.

Designer Christianity is simply people who claim that the Bible is the work of God, but it's not.

Yeah. Sure. Right.



This is exactly what many modern "Designer" Christians would like to believe.

You cannot extract Jesus from the Bible. When they nailed Jesus to the Cross they simultaneously nailed to the Old Testament.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, to be talking about Jesus having been born of a virgin, sent by God, dying to pay for the sins of man, and being resurrected again, outside of a belief in the God of Abraham and the Old Testament.

It makes absolutely no sense that Jesus could be the Sacrificial lamb of the God of Abraham if you are going to discount the stories of the God of Abraham.

It makes absolutely no sense to even speak of Jesus as having been a sacrificial lamb of God if you don't also believe that there was a God who can't forgive sins until it is appeased by blood sacrifices in the first place.

It's an all-or-nothing religion. You cannot separate Jesus from the Old Testament. The entire Bible must stand as the infallible word of God, or it must fall as a completely fabricated lie.

It's all or nothing. There can be no middle of the road "Designer Christianity". It had no substance.

If you want to just follow the teachings of Jesus and not recognize his divinity that would be fine. Then you could toss out the rest of the Bible, but then you'd also have to give up the idea that he was born of a virgin, and died for your sins as the sacrificial lamb of God.

You can't keep that notion whilst simultaneously denouncing the Old Testament. For it is the Old Testament that gives that very notion any merit whatsoever.

It's all or nothing.

You can't worship Jesus whilst claiming that the Old Testament isn't the word of God.

Well, sure, you can do anything you want on a personal level.

But as an organized religion it doesn't hold water that way.

Jesus can't be the sacrificial lamb to appease a God who can only forgive sins when there is blood sacrifice if you refuse to accept the stories about the God who demands blood sacrifices in the first place.

It's all or nothing.

Designer Christianity is an empty concept.

You can't sweep the God of Abraham under the carpet and claim that Jesus is God. That idea isn't workable. It has no substance.

1... maybe if you knew of His great love & compassion & that through His provision He has given us power to overcome, you might be persuaded.

2... Let me say I don't hate anyone here...it's their life but I do say what God's word says about believing anything other than Him. Those are God's words from the Bible not mine. God doesn't tell us to do anything but FOR our good. They get offended & call the names but Hey! I'd rather say the truth of God than keep quiet & miss an opportunity to save someone from eternal damnation. This isn't a scare tactic...it's the truth. I'm saying what I believe from God's word & that upsets the unbelieving. I can't help that. Big difference.

3....This thing about mixing pagan religions with Christianity is just an out & out lie. I hope you don't fall for that new age trickery cause that's all it is. They are so desperate to justify themselves even if it means making up & believing lies.

3a...In fact, all the gospels from the time of Christ's death talk about cleansing & purity, salvation for the REMISSION of sins...restoration & deliverance. To walk in the Spirit & keep ourselves from all forms of evil & sin. That's everywhere in the NT. I say they are deceiving MANY people with their lies. They deny the very power of God when they say they have no sin in them.
So...just a few comments...

Eljay,

If I could deny the Old Testament and just accept the moral teachings fo Jesus, I'd become a Christian in a heartbeat myself.

But that's not a workable deal.

When you support the story of Jesus as being the Son of the God of Abraham, then you must necesssarily bow down and worship the entire Old Testament as the word of God.

To do any less is to just kid yourself.

You can't pretend that God never told people to stone their unruly children to death, for example.

In fact, according to the gospel of Mark Jesus even supported that commandment and reprimanted the Pharisees for not following the word of God!

Although I think what actually happened there was that Jesus was trying to show them that they are hypocrites because they don't truly believe, or follow, what they preach.

But then Jesus would be a hypocrite too then if he was to denounce God's commandment that we should stone our unruly children to death. Because Jesus said that he did not come to change the law.

So according to both the Old and the New testaments we should still be stoning our unruly children to death even today!

You can't just take what you want and reject what you don't like. That's not a religion. That's just a totally self-fabricated belief system that you create to passify yourself with.

If that works for you on a peronal basis, great!

But as a religion for a world society it just doen't hold water. To me it's an obvious fabricated myth. It can be no more. It simply can't be true that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of God to pay for the sins of man.

Sorry, but it just doesn't hold water.