Community > Posts By > Nubby

 
Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 03:45 PM
Haeckel’s] evolutionary racism; his call to the German people for racial purity and unflinching
devotion to a “just” state; his belief that harsh, inexorable laws of evolution ruled human
civilization and nature alike, conferring upon favored races the right to dominate others; the
irrational mysticism that had always stood in strange communion with his grave words about
objective science—all contributed to the rise of Nazism.
Stephen Jay Gould, Ontogeny and Phylogeny (1977)1

Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 03:43 PM
I will get the book and let you know what I think.

Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 03:42 PM

Once again I ask for ONE actual quote from Hitler. You have your sources which are biased and I have my sources which are biased in your opinion because they are not Christians.

How are we different?

I have actual quotes and you have conjecture from these sources. Spencer's Social Darwinism tried to connect Darwin's biological theory with the field of social relations. The result of Social Darwinism resulted in many eugenics programs that began in America and adopted by the Nazis. [Note that Darwin never expressed the idea that natural selection could extend from biological systems to social systems.]

Do you see the difference here between Social Darwinism which was initiated by Herbert Spencer and Charles Darwin? They are TWO DIFERENT PEOPLE.



I qouted many people who share your bias.

Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 03:41 PM
"Richard Weikart's outstanding book shows in sober and convincing detail how Darwinist thinkers in Germany had developed an amoral attitude to human society by the time of the First World War, in which the supposed good of the race was applied as the sole criterion of public policy and 'racial hygiene'. Without over-simplifying the lines that connected this body of thought to Hitler, he demonstrates with chilling clarity how policies such as infanticide, assisted suicide, marriage prohibitions and much else were being proposed for those considered racially or eugenically inferior by a variety of Darwinist writers and scientists, providing Hitler and the Nazis with a scientific justification for the policies they pursued once they came to power." -- Richard Evans, Professor of Modern History, University of Cambridge, and author of The Coming of the Third Reich

"This is one of the finest examples of intellectual history I have seen in a long while. It is insightful, thoughtful, informative, and highly readable. Rather than simply connecting the dots, so to speak, the author provides a sophisticated and nuanced examination of numerous German thinkers of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries who were influenced to one degree or another by Darwinist naturalism and their ideas, subtly drawing both distinctions and similarities and in the process telling a rich and colorful story." -- Ian Dowbiggin, Professor of History, University of Prince Edward Island and author of A Merciful End: The Euthanasia Movement in Modern America

"This is an impressive piece of intellectual and cultural history--a well-researched, clearly presented argument with good, balanced, fair judgments. Weikart has a thorough knowledge of the relevant historiography in both German and English." -- Alfred Kelly, Edgar B. Graves Professor of History, Hamilton College, and author of The Descent of Darwin: The Popularization of Darwinism in Germany, 1860-1914

"This is truly a well-crafted work of intellectual history, and one directly relevant to some of the most consequential ethical discussions of our present time. Christians and all people of good will would do well to ponder these arguments, recognizing how easily the best and brightest can commit the worst and darkest under the progressive banner of biological 'health and fitness.' The book should provoke much debate and discussion, not only among historians but among ethicists and scientists too." --Thomas Albert Howard, Associate Professor of History, Gordon College, author of Protestant Theology and the Making of the Modern German University

"The philosophy that fueled German militarism and Hitlerism is taught as fact in every American public school, with no disagreement allowed. Every parent ought to know this story, which Weikart persuasively explains." --Phillip Johnson, Professor Emeritus of Law, University of California, Berkeley, and author of Darwin on Trial and Reason in the Balance

"If you think moral issues like infanticide, assisted suicide, and tampering with human genes are new, read this book. It draws a clear and chilling picture of the way Darwinian naturalism led German thinkers to treat human life as raw materials to be manipulated in order to advance the course of evolution. The ethics of Hitler's Germany were not reactionary; they were very much 'cutting edge' and in line with the scientific understanding of the day. Weikart's implicit warning is that as long as the same assumption of Darwinian naturalism reigns in educated circles in our own day, it may well lead to similar practices." --Nancy Pearcey, author of Total Truth and co-author of The Soul of Science and How Now Shall We Live

"Richard Weikart's masterful work offers a compelling case that the eugenics movement, and all the political and social consequences that have flowed from it, would have been unlikely if not for the cultural elite's enthusiastic embracing of the Darwinian account of life, morality, and social institutions. Professor Weikart reminds us, with careful scholarship and circumspect argument, that the truth uttered by Richard Weaver decades ago is indeed a fixed axiom of human institutions: 'ideas have consequences.'" --Francis J. Beckwith, Associate Director, J.M. Dawson Institute of Church-State Studies, and Associate Professor of Church-State Studies, Baylor University

"Richard Weikart has provided bioethicists with an excellent resource in From Darwin to Hitler." --Center for Bioethics and Culture Newsletter

"Weikart has written a significant study because it raises key ethical questions in broad terms that have contemporary relevance. His historicization of the moral framework of evolutionary theory poses key issues for those in sociobiology and evolutionary pscyhology, not to mention bioethicists, who have recycled many of the suppositions that Weikart has traced." --H-Net review on H-Ideas

". . . Richard Weikart's excellent new book. In precise and careful detail Weikart narrates an indispensable chapter of cultural and intellectual history . . ." --National Review

"This important work of intellectual history will act as a catalyst for rethinking the scientific and social forces that shaped the racial policies of the Third Reich." --Choice

"This book will prove to be an invaluable source for anyone wondering how closely linked Social Darwinism and Nazi ideologies, especially as uttered by Hitler, really were." --German Studies Review


Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 03:32 PM
Indeed, whole books have been penned on the eugenics outcome of Darwinian thinking. Consider just three important volumes: Edwin Black, War against the Weak: Eugenics and America’s Campaign to Create a Master Race (Four Walls Eight Windows, 2003); Stefan Kuhl, The Nazi Connection: Eugenics, American Racism, and German National Socialism (Oxford University Press, 1994); and Richard Weikart, From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany (Palgrave Macmillan, 2004).

Weikart’s book is well worth getting and carefully reading. Just two quotes: “Hitler’s morality was not based on traditional Judeo-Christian ethics nor Kant’s categorical imperative, but was rather a complete repudiation of them. Instead, Hitler embraced an evolutionary ethic that made Darwinian fitness and health the only criteria for moral standards.”

“Darwinian terminology and rhetoric pervaded Hitler’s writings and speeches, and no one to my knowledge has ever even questioned the common assertion by scholars that Hitler was a social Darwinist. It is too obvious to deny.”

Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 03:28 PM
[Haeckel’s] evolutionary racism; his call to the German people for racial purity and unflinching
devotion to a “just” state; his belief that harsh, inexorable laws of evolution ruled human
civilization and nature alike, conferring upon favored races the right to dominate others; the
irrational mysticism that had always stood in strange communion with his grave words about
objective science—all contributed to the rise of Nazism.
Stephen Jay Gould, Ontogeny and Phylogeny (1977)1

No matter how crooked the road was from Darwin to Hitler, clearly Darwinism and eugenics
smoothed the path for Nazi ideology, especially for the Nazi stress on expansion, war, racial
struggle, and racial extermination.
Richard Weikart, From Darwin to Hitler (2004)2



Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 07:26 AM
n Mein Kampf, Hitler used the German word for evolution (Entwicklung) many times, citing "lower human types." He criticized the Jews for bringing "Negroes into the Rhineland" with the aim of "ruining the white race by the necessarily resulting ization." He spoke of "Monstrosities halfway between man and ape" and lamented the fact of Christians going to "Central Africa" to set up "Negro missions," resulting in the turning of "healthy . . . human beings into a rotten brood of s." In his chapter entitled "Nation and Race," he said, "The stronger must dominate and not blend with the weaker, thus sacrificing his own greatness. Only the born weakling can view this as cruel, but he, after all, is only a weak and limited man; for if this law did not prevail, any conceivable higher development (Hoherentwicklung) of organic living beings would be unthinkable." A few pages later, he said, "Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live."59

The success in breeding cattle, dogs and other animals with certain desired characteristics gave empirical support to the concept of racial breeding as advocated by eugenicists and later Hitler and others.19

Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 07:03 AM

you're like a broken record...


Every time ANY one of you attempts to blame Adolph Hitler on someone else or the Crusades or Rwanda, you will get an earful of historical reality. That is my solemn promise to you until I die or get banned.


That expression is in error as well as it applies to Scotsmen and not those with beliefs.


That expression could not be more accurate.


If you're born in Scotland, you're a Scotsman, if you weren't, you aren't...


You dont even know what the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is. It’s when you attempt to say that "no true so and so" will do this or that yet the definition of the so and so is totally subjective and based entirely on who or what the person making the claim has determined in that point in time.

If you submit to Christ, you're a Christian, if you don't, you aren't...


And Catholics do not submit to Christ?





Hitler was a Darwinist, as well as many other things.
Yes catholics submit to Christ.

Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 07:00 AM

I found this thus far.

Matthew 8

8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

"There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."



Separation from God is a awful thing. In this life you choose whether you will say Lord thy will be done, or Lord my will be done. If you choose to reject him now, He will reject you later.

Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 06:46 AM
That is what we go by. His life and his teachings. I dont conclude that all Darwinists are Nazi's.

Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 06:43 AM

So in that case, every single Christian I cite as an example who has committed atrocities over the centuries you are simply going to insist was a "fraudulent Christian?" happy


You obviously need to read more of the New Testament.

Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 06:41 AM

Hitler
Crusades
Witch Burnings (Both abroad and domestic)
Persecutions of the Jews
Genocide in Rwanda
Columbus and the Caribbean


I could keep going.



Christ and his teachings.

Nubby's photo
Tue 01/27/09 05:03 AM
“There is no greater drama in human record than the sight of a few Christians, scorned or oppressed by…emperors, bearing all trials with a fiery tenacity, multiplying quietly, building order while their enemies generated chaos, fighting the sword with the word, brutality with hope, and at long last defeating the strongest state that history has ever known. Caesar and Christ had met in the arena and Christ had won.” (Will Durant, “Caesar and Christ: A History of Roman Civilization and of Christianity from their Beginnings to A.D. 325, pp 652)


Nubby's photo
Mon 01/26/09 04:47 PM

Im not sure what that would have to do with it, Yamin. Anyway, here is another.

Is it okay to drink alcohol?

NO

Judges 13:4
Drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing.

YES

Judges 9:13
Wine, which cheereth God and man.
personal favorite

bigsmile




Judges was a specific case for a woman who was going to bear a child, this woman was sterile and childless.

Nubby's photo
Mon 01/26/09 04:42 PM

Is it okay to drink alcohol?

NO

Numbers 6:3
He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.


YES

Genesis 27:28
God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine.

huh



This is why I dont spend much time on these Read the whole thing. A Nazirite was some one consecrated himself or herself and took a vow of separation and self imposed abstinence for the purpose of some special service.

Nubby's photo
Mon 01/26/09 04:31 PM
Its possible God used evolution to create the first two human beings.

Nubby's photo
Mon 01/26/09 02:26 PM






I personally used to battle with alcohol, the bible calls us to be sober minded. I personally dont see any problem with using it for medical purposes. Using it recreationally would be sin.


"nubby" ...Jesus noted for his turning water into wine and christians drinking wine as a subsitute for the blood of Christ is not Christianity exactly pushing towards a sober mind

wouldn't this means the ritual is a sin


Wine back then was watered down. The bible says not to be drunk with much wine.


whether it was watered down or not the ritual wasn't pushing towards soberity or a sober mind just the opposite

nubby says that
Alcohol is not forbidden in the bible.



"nubby" ..you said that the bible calls for christians to be of sober mind and practicing a ritual with the drinking of wine as the blood of Jesus is not practicing soberity ..isn't it actually the practice of drinking alcohol ....seems like a contradiction


No there is no contradiction. The bible condemns drunkeness, sorry, I should have said it differently.

Nubby's photo
Mon 01/26/09 02:12 PM
In other countries today Christian persecution is rampant. What is interesting is that there is almost a one to one correlation between persecution and the growth of the church.

Nubby's photo
Mon 01/26/09 01:53 PM

To me it begs the question, in light of the Roman persecution that the Christians endured, why did they not learn from this brutal treatment? Why inflict it upon others time and time again throughout the ages? Murder, death, torture, rape, mayhem, injustice, distortion, destruction at its finest.



Christianity has a sad history but again we can not lay these things at the feet of Christ. He would not have endorsed them. When Peter cut off the guards ear, Jesus healed the man, He said my kingdom is not of this world that men should fight over it. He told us to turn the other cheek (context) when being persecuted for His sake.

Nubby's photo
Mon 01/26/09 01:48 PM





I personally used to battle with alcohol, the bible calls us to be sober minded. I personally dont see any problem with using it for medical purposes. Using it recreationally would be sin.


"nubby" ...Jesus noted for his turning water into wine and christians drinking wine as a subsitute for the blood of Christ is not Christianity exactly pushing towards a sober mind

wouldn't this means the ritual is a sin


Wine back then was watered down. The bible says not to be drunk with much wine.


Alcohol is not forbidden in the bible.

whether it was watered down or not the ritual wasn't pushing towards soberity or a sober mind just the opposite



Alcohol is not forbidden in the bible.