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Edited by
Inkracer
on
Fri 03/13/09 10:33 AM
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The fact that you recognize evil in the world is a suggestive argument for the existence of God. Why?
Because if evil exists, then good exists. If good and evil exist then a moral law exists. If a moral law exists then there must be a moral law giver to judge right from wrong, good from evil. God can do anything power can do. He will not do that which contradicts his own nature. "All things are possible through God" must be taken in context and in light of other scripture. 1. Because I can recognize the difference between acts that benefit people(good) from acts that are detrimental to people(bad) does not mean that there is a law giver. Murder isn't bad because a "god" said it was(and if you believe that, then your god is a hypocrite, killing countless people throughout the bible) Murder is bad because society, as a whole, has decided that murder is bad. If there was a 'moral law giver" then more than 2 of the 10 Commandments would be laws.. 2.So basically, "All things are possible through God" is only supposed to be used when there are cases that Science has disproven what the bible say.(i.e. Human Parthenogenesis/the virgin birth) Yet another circular argument, and cop-out. |
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Topic:
Stats
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However I will post here more when I can, it is good to see more of us then I thought. Perhaps not everyone that lacks belief is as big a loud mouth as me hehehe. Well, some people watch, and others try to beat sense into the senseless.. 
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Edited by
Inkracer
on
Fri 03/13/09 09:25 AM
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And that is part of the many reasons why I turned my back on Christianity. God can kiss my ass if he she it thinks I would ever give myself over to such a manipulative and self righteous deity! How can a loving God condone murder in his Great plan? I dare question god and if I had the opportunity I would question God in his hers its face! Love does not justify murder! This is where the free will argument comes into play. God allows murder to take place for a certain amount of time to bring about a greater good. Justice will eventually be paid by God to all who diobey him. For the Christian Justice was paid for on the Cross, through faith in him. This may be the best of all possible worlds given the existence of free will. Free Will is nothing more than a cop out. Either God CAN prevent evil(and if god can, why doesn't god?) or God CAN'T prevent evil.(In that case, why call him God?) God can and will get rid of evil in the future. God will bring about a greater good through evil. God cannot do anything. For instance the bible says God cannot swear by a name greater than himself. God cannot make a square circle. God cannot make a free human being love him with out violating his free will. God can do anything power can do. 1. If he can and will, what is he waiting for? With all the wars, killing, famine going on in the world, why does he wait? 2. If god cannot do anything, 1. where does "All things are possible thru god" come from, because if he can't do anything, then clearly that is not true. 2. If he can't do anything, why call him god? |
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In biology, evolution is change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. These changes are caused by a combination of three main processes: variation, reproduction, and selection. Genes that are passed on to an organism's offspring produce the inherited traits that are the basis of evolution. These traits vary within populations, with organisms showing heritable differences in their traits. When organisms reproduce, their offspring may have new or altered traits. These new traits arise in two main ways: either from mutations in genes, or from the transfer of genes between populations and between species this definition alone states why not every oganism found on earth today is the same. any other brain busters? I understand that is the process in Micro evolution, however let's focus again on macro evolution..i'm talking about the VERY FIRST form of life whether you follow the Big Bang theory or any other variation of evolution. or are you suggesting that VERY FIRST form of life already knew it had to evolve right away and immediatly develope the capability to reproduce? 1.Macro-Evolution is just a group of Micro-Evolutions. 2. The Big Bang Theory has to do with the start of the universe, not with the start of life on earth. 3. Evolution has to deal with the changes that have happened since life began, not how life began. 4.No, Evolution does not work by a cell/organism knowing what it will evolve into. |
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And that is part of the many reasons why I turned my back on Christianity. God can kiss my ass if he she it thinks I would ever give myself over to such a manipulative and self righteous deity! How can a loving God condone murder in his Great plan? I dare question god and if I had the opportunity I would question God in his hers its face! Love does not justify murder! This is where the free will argument comes into play. God allows murder to take place for a certain amount of time to bring about a greater good. Justice will eventually be paid by God to all who diobey him. For the Christian Justice was paid for on the Cross, through faith in him. This may be the best of all possible worlds given the existence of free will. Free Will is nothing more than a cop out. Either God CAN prevent evil(and if god can, why doesn't god?) or God CAN'T prevent evil.(In that case, why call him God?) |
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Edited by
Inkracer
on
Thu 03/12/09 01:29 PM
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The empty tomb was not faked
So, I take it you were actually there to witness it then? 
We had this discussion the last time you showed up, you can't point to what is written in the bible, and call it fact. |
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First up, why is the MLS so obsessed with David Beckham? He is not that great anymore, despite a very slight improvement with his play with AC Milan?
Simple, because right now, he is arguably the world's ambassador for soccer. The new team from Seattle is reaping the benefits, because another player has jumped over the pond to play here.( Freddie Ljungberg- http://www.soundersfc.com/Team/Players/Freddie-Ljungberg.aspx |
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Topic:
honest question....
Edited by
Inkracer
on
Thu 03/12/09 09:28 AM
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no father no son There is to much historical evidence for the son, there are suggestive arguments for the father. I am going to assume when you say 'son' that you are referring to Jesus. What Evidence? What evidence is there that Jesus actually existed? What evidence is there that Jesus is true, why not the Egyptian god Horus, or any of the other gods that share their story with Jesus. not to mention that Christians can't even agree on the time period that Jesus was supposed to be alive in. According to Luke Johnson, a New Testament scholar at Emory University, Even the most critical historian can confidently assert that a Jew named Jesus worked as a teacher and wonder-worker in Palestine during the reign of Tiberius, was executed by crucifixion under the prefect Pontius Pilate and continued to have followers after his death.{1} So they say that a Jew named Jesus lived, and died at the time most commonly believed to be when he lived(If he lived). It does not make him the Jesus of the bible. You still don't answer the question of how many Christians believe Jesus lived 100 years earlier. "Luke is the gospel writer who writes most self-consciously as an historian. In the preface to this work he writes:
Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things which have been accomplished among us, just as they were delivered to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the truth concerning the things of which you have been informed." Writing like a Historian does not make one a Historian. I have read many works of fiction, that have a historic feel to the writing. 1. There was insufficient time for legendary influences to expunge the historical facts. The interval of time between the events themselves and recording of them in the gospels is too short to have allowed the memory of what had or had not actually happened to be erased.
Too short? We are talking about AT LEAST 35+ years in between the supposed death, and the writing of the first gospel(which all others are based off of) At the time of Jesus' supposed life, 35 years is at least One generation coming and going. That is plenty of time for the story, if even true, to be changed. 2. The gospels are not analogous to folk tales or contemporary "urban legends." Tales like those of Paul Bunyan and Pecos Bill or contemporary urban legends like the "vanishing hitchhiker" rarely concern actual historical individuals and are thus not analogous to the gospel narratives.
So many of the stories in the Bible are so far-fetched that this point is really laughable. Jonas living in the whale for 3 days is possible, but Jack and the Beanstalk isn't? I have read many a story with real people as the main characters, that were complete works of fiction. 3. The Jewish transmission of sacred traditions was highly developed and reliable. In an oral culture like that of first century Palestine the ability to memorize and retain large tracts of oral tradition was a highly prized and highly developed skill. From the earliest age children in the home, elementary school, and the synagogue were taught to memorize faithfully sacred tradition. The disciples would have exercised similar care with the teachings of Jesus.
The ability to memorize something because of faith, does not make it true. Simply because a lot of Jews said it, does not make it true, especially if the first person to tell the story was a liar. 4. There were significant restraints on the embellishment of traditions about Jesus, such as the presence of eyewitnesses and the apostles’ supervision. Since those who had seen and heard Jesus continued to live and the tradition about Jesus remained under the supervision of the apostles, these factors would act as a natural check on tendencies to elaborate the facts in a direction contrary to that preserved by those who had known Jesus.
You have yet to even touch on any of the other gods who share their story with Jesus. What makes Jesus any more real than Horus, the Egyptian god who went thru Jesus' exact story 1000 years prior to Jesus? Also, this goes with the point made from above, word of mouth does not make it true, especially when everything that was said is only in one book... 5. The Gospel writers have a proven track record of historical reliability.
Again, this is laughable. So much of the bible is only written in the bible, and is no where else in History. Moses. The Jews walking in the desert for 40 years, the Murder of the Innocents.. Just because it name-drops people we know existed does not make it historically reliable. "C. S. Lewis was right when he said,
A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic--on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg--or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was and is the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us." All this quote really says is that Jesus was the son of god, because people believed him.
That doesn't make him the son of God, that makes the believer equally delusional as he was. |
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Is it me? Or does anyone else get the impression that the need to accept Creationism has more to do with the lack of actually spirituality in some people, ie- if any part of the Bible is false then the whole thing is false and comes tumbling down versus yes of course some things are not right, what did they know 2000 years ago, but the teachings and hope it gives is what I believe in? I won't speak for anyone on this board, but that is the exact stance the Creation museum has taken.(You can see the owner say just that in Bill Maher's Religulous) |
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Topic:
honest question....
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no father no son There is to much historical evidence for the son, there are suggestive arguments for the father. I am going to assume when you say 'son' that you are referring to Jesus. What Evidence? What evidence is there that Jesus actually existed? What evidence is there that Jesus is true, why not the Egyptian god Horus, or any of the other gods that share their story with Jesus. not to mention that Christians can't even agree on the time period that Jesus was supposed to be alive in. |
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Topic:
Call me crazy...
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Sadly, mankind has gone far beyond that... with the fall of mankind in the garden of eden. By his disobedience to GOD, mankind has caused the earth to be covered with violence, robbery and thievery.
If there is a god, why doesn't he just stop evil? Why play it out that he has to kill of all people first? If he truly he god, why not just put a stop to evil? if he can't stop evil, why call him god? |
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Topic:
Gay Marriage and Atheism
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Two people choose to commit to a life of mutual support and care....a relationship based on unconditional love and joyful union. Where does sexual preference or gender appear in the above statement? Nowhere. Because it isn't relevant... That is basically the way i see it. I also really don't see how what 2 consenting people do, behind closed doors, has any effect on me, and I also fail to see where other people have the right to comment on the actions of those consenting people.. |
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My Army buddies and me were actually talking about this subject at drill this weekend...
I really can't think of any certain songs, except I want to have the most inappropriate songs playing at my funeral...
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Topic:
Call me crazy...
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Haha...How did spiritual conversations turn into a dog commanding people to break into houses?? 
I guess it went from the "normal" religions to the whack-job that is Scientology...
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Question: Do you believe in your friends who you've known for years...or your (cheating) SO? If you're in the situation, do you tell...or keep your mouth shut no matter what else happens?
Luckily i have never been put in that situation, but it would really depend on the friend. Some of my friends, I would have a hard time believing, others I trust enough that I would believe them. |
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Topic:
honest question....
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i ask specifically because i was in a discussion with one of my christian friends the other day, who was trying to "save my soul", and each and every time i brought up my concerns about old testament passages which quite obviously no god would have anything to do with, he kept telling me that christianity is about the new testament and that i should ignore the old testament. so my response was to say that if i cannot believe the god of the old testament was anything more than a made up story... then how can i believe that jesus christ was his son? at which point my friend declared me stubborn, my soul a lost cause and said he will never discuss religion with me again. ... and i was left perplexed...
It seems to me that many Christians like to do that. I have talked to some who say that the bible needs to be taken literally, and then I would bring up one of "those" passages, then they would say "those" passages are just a story... It's a circular argument... |
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Topic:
honest question....
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If the OT god was ever proven to be non-existent, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I think it would do more then affect Christianity, since all 3 major monotheistic religions share common roots..
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... a devout religious believer? First, you really have to clarify devout. If you just mean someone who goes to whatever their religious temple is, on the days they are supposed to go, then I would give it a try, as long as they are open-minded, and that we would be able to have discussions on religion, while leaving our own feelings out of it, and also as long as they would respect my lack of beliefs, instead of trying to convert me, i would not have a problem, with at least trying. If, by devout, you mean the whole nine yards, going to church, believing the bible word-for-word, trying to convert all non-believers, while reminding them they are going to hell, there is no way I would even try to talk to that person. |
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Well, O'Reilly is nothing more than a tool.
As you said Mackle, many people are "just flat-out wrong" on his show, simply because they don't share the same opinion on something... |
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Topic:
Yankees
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Go Yankees!! I think they have a real chance this year. Sabbathia is a major asset to the mound and Teixeira had a good season last year. I think the one thing that really helped the Yankees is they went after younger players this off-season. Usually the Yankees bring in the guys older, who are really just at the beginning of the drop-off in their numbers. Should be a good season, and I can't wait.
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