doesn't suit their agendas I'm afraid.....at least not in that setting, they do go after guns and drugs of course.....but that's another topic. But no their goal is obedience, that's what they want, free thinking, independent people with minds and personalities of their own doesn't fit them. Can't control them very easy you see.....

Not the same statement, when I am saying for you to get over yourself, what I mean by that is realize that not everyone shares your beliefs, and that while it's fine to have your own, to try and understand others and not just judge them as wrong or try to outright dictate to them based on your own viewpoint. That's what I mean when I say religious people need to get over themselves. They need to understand people have different needs (kids included I might add) and it isn't necessarily going to be what you THINK they need. We would do far better if we listened and tried to understand rather than just judged based on what we believe we know or have been told.

That's far different from being told to get over my abuse as if it didn't happen, or get over the effects it had on me......very different.

And as for hostility...honestly I get really tired of the back and forth at times.....it gets emotionally draining so when I get quiet that's usually why. I sometimes think about just quitting posting here entirely really.....

Amen. Sometimes rules don't DESERVE respect, and should be disobeyed and challenged. One of the big problems this country and in ways the world has is this "roll over" mentality accepting every and all restriction they place on us no matter how inane it is. It's time we stop that, apathy is killing us. We need to start telling them NO, we need to start pushing back.

And Msharmony, this isn't JUST about the mohawk, the mohawk is a symbol of everything wrong here.....a symbol of so many insane laws and regulations that have no business being as such. It may seem insignificant on the surface, but it is a sign of a bigger problem, that is to say a power hungry government wanting to control as much as they can. It's something we need to be protesting, enough is enough.

Definitely, far too often adults as they get older think they know more than the child simply because they are older, but older and wiser don't always go together. A child can know as much as someone fully grown, and someone fully grown can know as little as some kids do in the same way. It's not an absolute thing.

Sometimes even as adults you still have things to learn, you may have been raised one way strictly, but doesn't mean it was right or that your kids are wrong for questioning it.

I truly believe if parents tried to understand their kids more than tried to place themselves above them simply because they are older, they'd have better relationships to the kids, the kids would be safer and have less of a reason to sneak around since they'd have an open dialogue with the parents, and both would be much happier.

Parents I think try too hard at times to control their kids to make them what they want them to be, rather than trying to understand what they actually need. They both suffer for that IMO. I think we make things so much more complex than they really should be, life isn't that complicated as much as we make it that way.

No kidding, you get the feeling that some of these people would jump off a bridge if a "scientist" said you could survive doing so. I mean.......screw the facts right?

No, you aren't getting it. They SAID in the official story that there were no explosives found in the rubble of Building 7. But they NEVER TESTED for them! How exactly can you have an honest conclusion if you don't test for what you say isn't there?? Fact of the matter is they had a bias to conclude there was no explosive residue before they ever started the investigation. Why else would they say there was nothing there when they never tested for what they said wasn't? The whole thing was rigged, it was not a true unbiased investigation.

How many actually live up to that though vs. how many use it to judge? And even with the good deeds that can come from it, it doesn't make the meat of what is taught in it any less destructive or divisive to those who choose to think different from them.

On top of that, you don't need a church or a religion to do those things, and it says something about you if you DO need them IMO. You can just as easily do all of those things outside a church (maybe even BETTER than if you're in it for some), as you can in one, you don't need it to do any of that.

To a point but you CANNOT sit there and tell me that these things don't encourage control and regulation. Most churches and faiths in Christianity are based on that idea......you either toe the line or you are outcast, and there's no inbetween. They ENCOURAGE this type of thing. Will some abuse regardless? Maybe, but you cannot tell me that these beliefs don't lend itself to that type of absolute, iron fist control, because they do.

It may seem like I am hatefully accusing and stereotyping, but unless you can experience this from my lens, you can never understand the difference between what you believe and the reality of what that system of belief does. People will abuse yes, but RELIGION does give them an easy way to do it.

No I don't think so, people can disagree with me if they want, but it doesn't change what is nor is it gonna make me abstain from saying it just so not to "offend". I will say exactly what I feel, just how I am. And I do think it is abusive since it places moral absolutes based on the church alone on the kids before they even know what they are yet. I will not support that type of brainwashing and conditioning. I just won't. If that makes me bad to some fine, I'm still gonna say it. I don't say what I say to make friends, I say them because they are.

They COMBINED did, because without the religion, there would have been no forcing of beliefs onto me like that, how I was raised WAS based on the religious belief, you cannot separate them. You can keep your god damn pious "correction" bs, I know what happened to me, no matter what any of you still in the bubble think. You can think I am wrong all you want, think I am misguided, left the faith or whatever else, I KNOW my story more than you ever could.

Not really nonsense.....and I will ALWAYS speak out against it and against it being shoved onto kids before they know better. If that offends you so be it, I don't care really, I'll say it anyway. And you are free to believe anything you want even if it is nonsenscial and even downright harmful, no one can take that away from you, but just don't expect everyone else to always tolerate it without a pushback......

I STILL don't think one should be able to push it onto kids though without them having some say in the matter.....I know that I can't control that but I will still say it and speak out on it, that is a wrong to me........don't care whether others like that or not.

No everyone doesn't....BUT I believe we ALL have innately in our conscience an understanding of what right and wrong is, from birth pretty much. Whether we act according to it is another matter, but we all have it. That's regardless of any other perceptions around us, other beliefs that may shape us differently.

And at least you admit you could be wrong, I wish you'd live more according to that rather than try to push certain absolutes in your own mind onto people though.....as you say right will still be right no matter what. That's the truest statement I've heard you say.

Get over my abuse??? Why should I have to "get over it"? Because what I say is uncomfortable to those in that bubble or offends them? **** that! I don't have to "get over" anything if I don't want to, if I wanna be upset and speak out, I WILL do just that I don't give a damn whether you or anyone else likes it or not!

The very fact that you said that offends me greatly........and if you ask me is damn insensitive to what I have gone through. You don't just tell someone who was abused, be it mentally, physically, or both to just "get over it". How dare you minimize what I dealt with like that?! You ought to be ashamed! I wouldn't tell you to just get over a rape for example......that's something you just don't do. You wanna talk about morality, well here's a place YOU need to learn something!

What I went through had a HUGE impact on how I grew up, that's not something I can ever "get over" it will ALWAYS be a part of me. It shaped me then, and it shapes me even more now. Time may make it easier, but if I can prevent ANYONE from going through what I did in my teen years and even past them, you can be sure I will do all I can to do it. Whether it ruffles the feathers of the establishment or not I could care less...it's just the right thing to do. If can protect even one person from that experience, it's worth doing. If for no other reason than this......I will never "get over" my abuse, it will always play a role in my life in some capacity, always.

As for the rest, yeah I think you did, you made a DEFINITE distinction between believers and non believers, placing yourself as more in tune with your spirit than those who don't believe as you do simply because they don't. That is the height of arrogance to me. They don't have to think just as you do to have some spiritual life to them, hell they could not believe at all and still have some. It is NOT an absolute all or nothing deal as you make it out to be. No matter your intention, you clearly placed non believers in one class of people and believers in others even if you didn't outright say it.

You can place yourself in that very same category you know.....just because you grew up thinking something is "right" or "wrong" doesn't mean it is. Just saying......

And all those things are based on what they grew up in, doesn't mean it's actually right or wrong. ACTUAL right or wrong EVERYONE knows no matter what else they may "perceive" as such.

It's not the same thing msharmony at all.....EVERYONE knows right and wrong, it's NOT complicated, MAN makes it complicated.....how hard is it to know NOT to harm, NOT to steal, NOT to kill? Everyone knows that's wrong, whether they follow it is another matter. If you don't know these things, well you got more problems than one can even say. You don't need a book, a preacher or a religion to tell you those things are wrong, we ALL know it. It really IS that simple, everything else is just man trying to control behavior, that's all it is.

And how the hell do you KNOW what is right for someone's spirit??? Because a pastor said it, because the Bible said it, because "God" tells you??? Give me a damn break! The world is so much bigger than that religious bubble.....so much bigger. I don't care what authority you think tells you the truth, it doesn't make it so by default.

Love how you put yourself so far above the non religious people too at the end, as if you're so much damn better than we are because you have "Jesus" in your life. Yeah I'm sure he'd be so proud of you.....for thumbing your nose down at others who don't think like you do like you basically just did.....

Get over yourself, your beliefs don't make you some special chosen person sorry to say.....

And so it begins........why am I not surprised New York the home of the most draconian laws and policies anymore.....would be the first to do this.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again........the biggest mistake you can make is to assume a government WON'T do something.....you'll almost always be wrong. Ask the Chinese, ask the Germans.....they'll tell you. Know your history people.....unless you wanna repeat it. Government THRIVES when people assume they won't do something, it's how they get away with things. By the time we realize what they've done, it's too late. The time to act is NOW, we can't afford to wait, cause if we wait too long we ALL lose, history has shown that over and over again.

These were all in the comments on this page, figure I'd share them here, read and understand folks......your liberty, your safety depends on it.

"“We should not blame a gun itself for any crime or any acts of violence, any more than we can blame a pen for misspelling a word.”

“Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.” – L. Neil Smith

“Gun control? It’s the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. I’m a bad guy; I’m always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You will pull the trigger with a lock on, and I’ll pull the trigger. We’ll see who wins.” – Sammy “The Bull” Gravano, whose testimony convicted John Gotti“Gun control has not worked in D.C. The only people who have guns are criminals. We have the strictest gun laws in the nation and one of the highest murder rates. It’s quicker to pull your Smith and Wesson than to dial 911 if you’re being robbed.” – Lieutenant Lowell Duckett, President Black Police Caucus, Special Assistant to Washington, D.C. Police Chief

I am convinced that we can do to guns what we’ve done to drugs: create a multi-billion dollar underground market over which we have absolutely no control.” – George L. Roman

“This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” – Adolph Hitler, 1935, on The Weapons Act of Nazi Germany

Love this.....I told my aunt this just 2 weekends ago on Easter when she was complaining that gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt and push their gayness basically onto the kids. Kids don't care about gender like others do, they just want love and a place to belong, that's all they want. Whether it be from a single mom, single dad, two moms, two dads, a mom and a dad, or even more then 2 parents....it doesn't matter to them as long as they're loved. Any prejudice they get towards any "unnatural" relationship is taught to them it's not innately in them.

Adults are the ones that make this an issue, it's not the kids.

If no one can agree on what they are, then how can they be absolutes? Morals, right/wrong, good/evil, should be OBVIOUS to everyone.....they shouldn't need to be taught as much as known innately. If they can't, then you can bet it's man trying to dictate morals vs. actual authentic morality. We ALL know what right and wrong is even if we don't always follow it. Things like, don't kill, don't steal, don't harm, etc etc, THOSE are absolutes that everyone knows!

Things like......no sex before marriage, no homosexual sex, no this that or the other thing, those are not, those are man's interpretations of what being moral means, not authentic morals. Morality is really NOT that complicated, but we've made it so by adding in so many rules and regulations that really have nothing to do with true morals and everything to do with controlling and regulating behavior.

THAT is what I refer to when I say that people are different, and just because you don't choose to do what they do, or certain things (such as being attracted to women in your case) don't take place for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else. THAT is what is relative. You are quite right that there is a difference between something not being in your taste and something being morally right or wrong, and that's it. Unless it's one of the absolutes I speak of above.....when it comes to behavior and right or wrong interests and desires.....it IS relative to the person, I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, that's just how it is.

Tell me something hot shot........if there was NO explosives in Building 7, why didn't they test for em in the official story before coming to the conclusion there weren't any? What were they afraid of? If there was none, surely the test would have shown that right? The fact that they didn't says to me the cat was watching the hen house.

Oh it's for learning alright.......learning how to be obedient to your masters. But keep drinking that kool aid......they care about the kids alright.......uh huh........