"If you have a stopped up sink, you hire a plumber. If you need/want a new chair, you buy it."
Very true. However, the difference is that plumbers actually know how to unplug the sink, and a furniture stores has lots of chairs available to fit my every need. In the world of e-dating, the only thing that a guy looks for in there is how receptive the female members are, which is something you CAN'T buy. I've been on several 100% FREE sites that promise the same results as these pay sites, while getting bupkiss. If I go to Amazon.com and I want to buy a book or DVD or whatever, they mail it out to me after I make my payment. If I go to a paysite, what is it exactly that I'm buying? Not women's desire to e-mail me, surely. It's nothing but extortion.

"Again, WHY on EARTH do you think that?"
I can't get dates in real life, so I have to pay someone just to get a little womanly attention. That doesn't sound a little desperate to you?
Sure, the dates themselves can and should have money spent on them, but meeting and attracting women shouldn't.

"And/or, in "real life" you're chatting with a girl and then she takes off? Is it both?"
No, it's only in e-mailing when she disappears. We're chatting about what's going on in our lives, what are interests are, that sort of thing. In real life, I easily establish friendship and then she suddenly loses all contact with me after I toss out the idea of going out on a date sometime.

"Do you automatically just say "I'm not looking for a one-night stand"? I mean, that's kind of odd, right?"
No, it doesn't just come up out of nowhere. It just wriggles its way into the conversation, just like any off-topic can. Why is it presumptuous to assume that women are sexually attracted to me? The only way I'm going to make any sort of progress in this area is to think that I'm The Sh|t in any and all respects, since I keep getting reassured over and over and over again that to get women, all you need is confidence. Is that wrong?

"nobody "makes" anybody do anything. We all have free will."
Yup. That's right. However, I can talk in such a way so that people will like me (which I employ more often than not), or I can talk in such a way that people will think me a hateful prick and want nothing to do with me. The first I do more often than the latter, and it has earned me a lot of friends as a result. I also do it when approaching women I'm interested in, and everything seems to be going well under I say I want to be more personally involved with them, then they run out. THAT is where I'm confused; how do I make friends as easily as I do, but women just don't want to be with me? :S

"And the fact that you're saying "in fear" really concerns me! What exactly do you do, anyway?"
Nothing that no one ELSE in my position would do, I can tell you. There's this girl who worked in the supermarket that I chatted with quite a bit, and I finally got up the nerve to ask her out. (I say "got up the nerve" because past experience has told me that asking women out is a terrible, TERRIBLE thing to do.) She then told me that she was actually going to be in Texas for about a week, but then said that maybe we could do something when she gets back. ;) Alright! My foot's (almost, but not quite) in the door! :D A week passes and I meet her again and ask how she's been, and she blurts out in a state of panic "I'M GETTING MARRIED! O_O", eyes bulging and all. ....Wtf? She soon quit working at that particular supermarket.

"You haven't even read this guy's stuff yet and you're already presuming it is "riddled with holes"!"
I've read LOTS of material on the subject and they just didn't make any sort of sense. At this point, the only direction I can go is up. Sure, send me these newsletters if you think they'll help, but I've read too much that didn't hold up under careful consideration to think it's going to work. That's why I keep coming back to this thread; just because I have a bad opinion about something, it doesn't mean I want help in getting that opinion changed. Maybe someone in here knows something that I don't know or have never heard before. I just don't know.

"You are making a huge assumption there. You don't know anything of the kind!"
I have yet to see any woman who has lots of male attention having to resort to internet dating in order to find a guy. She can afford to have her pick of the litter, and has a hell of a good time looking.
At least that's with the 20-something year old women in CA, anyway.

Nope. It was a blind date who ended up being roughly 400 lbs. and a head shorter than me (I can deal with heavier girls, but that was TOO MUCH) who was into wicca, but I did the respectable thing and sat it out.

If these women are seeking guys for relationships through the internet, they must not be getting a lot of male attention in real life. I would have thought that giving the message that they ARE being thought about instead of waiting for a long time (possibly spending time e-mailing someone ELSE on the side??? <:O) and feel more special from it.

"If they get them too often it may get old or they may think you have no life and just sit there waiting for e-mails."
*lol* In most instances, if I haven't a life because of my quick responses to their e-mails, they too are guilty of the same crime. :)

"The point it don't agree with them all the time cause you think they will like you more."
I point out several things I don't agree with in this conversation as well as thing I DO agree with (not unlike my e-mails). I don't seem to be making too many friends here in this thread. *lol*

"Do you pick up on her interests and ask her about what she likes to do what she wants for her future?"
I NEVER approach anyone who doesn't share any mutual interests with me. If she has a hobby that I share in (or at least something similar), I try to talk about it. If she likes This Film Genre, I start asking about what her favorites are. You know, simple personal stuff like that, like you'd do in real life.

"Not being able to communicate with you as a dating type thing I am at a loss on how you could fix the problem you are having"
...But you're looking for a man for dating, aren't you? :S

"Girls are use to guys going after them and when you don't that makes you stand out and more interesting. Again not all girls are like this but some are."
In my experience, all girls are just the opposite. :( I leave them alone, they leave me alone.

"You're using self depreciating humour."
That's only ONE card in my deck. I've got 51 others to play, which everyone else I know seems to appreciate.

"If I went through them and picked out the ones that are relevant to you ; would be you keen to have a read?"
You could give it a whirl, but don't be offended if I find it riddled with holes.

"if I am emailing someone and I find them to be rude and arrogant, if I don't want to email them...I don't owe them an explanation"
Rude, of course not. Arrogant... of course not, but what exactly does that mean? How does one portray the confidence that women love without crossing the line?

"If you talk to your friends in an email like you talk in the threads, I can't say that I blame them for not emailing you back."
I can talk this way to ANY of my friends and they'll keep coming back because they like talking to me. Only when this topic of conversation is introduced to they quit on me because they have no idea where I'm going wrong, same as I. They don't see me as arrogant, and neither should any girl I try to get closer to since I'm not treating them any differently than I would my friends (which many of my friends would say is my REAL problem).

"I think if you try to be patient and not try so hard..this is when love finds you."
Indulge me; what precisely does it mean to try, but not try so hard? Everyone tells me to stop trying so hard, but they never tell me to stop trying cold turkey. How does one try, but not so hard?

"why does everyone feel the need to have a mate? Enjoy being young and single...go out and have fun while you can!!"
Because human beings are social creatures and the need for a mate is deeply embedded into our genetic programming. I don't know what your dating life has been like, but for me, having the ability to make women like you but then somehow cause them to run away in fear is NOT fun. How do I enjoy my singlehood?

"Try not chasing and they will wonder why you don't. If she is interested you might find out that you are the one being chased"
Hmm.... I don't know what you do when e-mailing, Chazster, since you're looking for friendship instead of dating or a relationship, but assuming that you were looking for that, how would you go about composing an introductory e-mail? You suggest to not chase, but to me, not chasing means not doing anything, and not doing anything means the girl you've got your eye won't ever even be aware of your existence. How do you go about pursuing, but not chasing?

"after you are feeling more comfortable with whoever you are speaking with, do you let them know what your expectations are in your future?"
Actually, I can very rarely ever get that far. With some girls I move a bit more slowly, but others I can connect with a lot faster. As far as expectations go, I let them know right away that I'm not looking for sex on the first date. Is that what's turning them off? :S

"could it be that some of them just may not be on that same wave length with you?"
That seems to be the case, but things go so well and the stop in communication is so sudden I can't determine where it's coming from.

"go for the risk, up those distance miles another 25 miles its a more normal distance range"
It's not about risk, it's about mileage. My job is already killing me in miles and gas expenses. :P

"I don't have to read your profile, to know your problem derives from being cocky instead of taking the time to listen."
If you actually read my profile, you wouldn't even determine my "problem" anyway. This forum wouldn't be going on as long as it has been if I didn't know how to listen. The problem here lies in how there's apparently no answer to my initial question ("Why do women who enjoy talking to me suddenly cease all communication from completely out of nowhere?") that gives me some clarity and something to consider. I AM listening, but there's not a lot that's being offered that I haven't heard before and isn't answering my question.

"Everyone knows that, and so I am always somewhat amazed when people ask why."
Oh of course there's the risk of rejection. I'm just wondering why the rejection comes after what appears to be not only acceptance, but welcoming. And your response isn't jerky, don't worry about it. Thanks for the input. :)

"Personally I would find you pesky if you talked to me that way."
Talked to you what way? Genuinely interested in you as a human being? Trying to get to know you to possibly engage in a deep and meaningful relationship instead of out looking for a one-night-stand like too many guys in here? Yes, I can certainly see where you'd be irritated...

Yes, women have told me that they actually like my facial hair. And my long hair has been said to look gorgeous. Don't insult me for my nonconformities. I could easily make some assumptions as to why you're on a dating site too, but I won't because I'm not an asshole.

""player grasp reality and start respecting people". If that really truly is your thought process then I can understand why you are still single."
So what does that mean? Being respectful means being perpetually single?

"if you say you don't need to learn some social skills then, you are your own worse enemy."
The only social skills I don't know are those which don't make any sense. How is a guy more attractive to a girl if he just treats her like a pretty piece of meat meant for his own satisfaction? That doesn't make sense to me.

"Have you ever wondered maybe you are too boring for her why she stopped talking to you???"
Sure, except every girl I've ever known loves my company and would tell you I'm a great guy to be with.

"A behaviour like this in your post, is unattractive"
What behavior? Reacting negatively to a negative stimulus? That's not being pissy, it's being human.

"If you think you know it all, why bother telling us your situation here!"
If I know it all, shouldn't I logically have women crawling all over me? Obviously there's something in this equation that I don't know. All I seek in here is what the missing variable is.

"Maybe the reason you arent getting responces is because all women want to be swept off her feet, tell her that her flaws are beautiful... ect."
Uh-huh, and how do you sweep them off their feet with compliments about their looks when 95% of women in the e-dating world say something on their profiles like "don't just write me telling me I'm sexy, k?" If a guy you don't know came up to you and told you that YOUR flaws were beautiful (which doesn't even make sense since any feature that beautiful wouldn't be recognized as "flaws"), would you suddenly be swept off your feet or think he's just some creep trying to get into your pants?

"And clean shaven is a turn on too."
So it's okay for Johnny Depp to have a beard but not me? Most women I meet would tell you that my facial hair is one of my most distinguished/interesting features.

You think I WANT these rebuttals? :( I didn't create these counterarguments just for the sake of pissing people off. I hate them too. My friends can only give me advice that either didn't work for me or contradicts some OTHER piece of advice that should have worked long ago but didn't. Every time I look inside myself for answers I only get more questions, which is why no one wants to help me anymore.

Getting a girl to go out with me should NOT have to be a miracle. All I want is some help that makes sense, doesn't contradict some other crucial elementary socialization theory, and doesn't compromise who and what I am. Is that something that only God can do?

I find dating services/advice that you have to pay for to be an insult. Millions of people all over the world are getting dates for free, be it in real life or over the internet. Why shouldn't I be able to do the same. Shouldn't paying someone for dating help be a big sign of desperation anyway? I'm getting help from almost everyone I know who have had great successes themselves, and if they give me advice that isn't contradictory to some OTHER advice (which happens all too often) and it still doesn't work, they're completely dumbfounded as to what happened.

A friend of mine were out once, and he spotted this cute girl who was standing by herself. He suggested that I go over to her and invite her to come and join us. I objected since I had seen her with this guy earlier who was playing touchy-feely with her, playfully smacking her ass, casual boyfriend stuff, and deduced that her guy was just off in the restroom or somewhere. My friend didn't see him, and pushed me over her way. I conceded, and proceeded to talk to her being my usual friendly self whenever talking to new people I want to get to know (meanwhile, my friend was watching from a safe distance to try to see if I was giving off any negative body language). She said she was with her guy, and politely rejected me. I came back to my friend, and he couldn't see where I was going wrong. So, even bearing destructive knowledge of the lady's unavailability, I still know how to where my Happy Face(TM) with no ill effects. The way I see it, how is it that my friend (who incidentally gets the MOST action out of any of us) couldn't help me improve my method(s) but someone who I have to pay and doesn't know anything about me would?

"A teetotaler is someone who doesn't drink."
Ah, check. My drinking is reserved mostly for special occasions.

As for drinking to engage in mutual relaxation, I don't need that either. A new friend/co-worker of mine recently came here from out of state, and she was nervous as hell from her new environment and complete lack of friends. I very easily fell into conversation with this girl, and a few weeks later she thanked me for being the first person she met in this state who made her feel comfortable and at right at home. So THAT'S not where I'm failing. :S

Networking through my other relationships hasn't worked either. The social circles of my friends are usually MUCH bigger than my own, but in what they tell me, they can't think of any female friends of theirs who would be interested in dating me (since finding women who are SINGLE in their circles is apparently enough of a challenge on its own). That, or they're actually not trying at all. How can I know, since I'm not following them around day and night? :P One lady friend of mine DID say that she had someone who might be good with me, but she never arranged anything. :S

"Or is it that you meet plenty of people but then they get "scared off" or don't want to date for some reason."
That's pretty much the nub of the whole matter. I meet someone, we get along wonderfully, but then I propose a date and she suddenly has to buy a cat so she can go home and feed it. Wtf? :(

Being a friend comes naturally to me, but no one has been able to tell me what the difference in being The Boyfriend is. I instinctively think that if I want to do something with someone, I have to try to be his/her friend so that my presence doesn't offend them in anyway. How is that attitude different when approaching women?

My "odd" profile is only used here. I've tried SEVERAL free dating services with something much more conventional and got nothing out of it. They say you should establish something interesting and unique when writing your profile, so I decided to try something that was REALLY out there but makes sense in some bizarre way.

My "I'm a big dog" statement is being taken out of context. I see guys strutting around with no shirts on (which is, I'm told, more of a turnoff for women than these guys would like to believe) with pimped out rides, and it looks like they're trying to compensate for something really important that they don't have. I'm comparing them to chihuahuas who think they are much bigger and more intimidating than they really are, and I'm comparing myself to something like a lab or a retriever; very real, always a friend, and not having a need to try to prove myself by playing the Tough Guy. Given this current direction in this discussion, I'm suddenly reminded of this analogy by how Paris Hilton prefers the company of a chihuahua over some other breed. *lol*

"Are you a teetotaler? Are you cheap?"
Don't know what a teetotaler is, but I'm not cheap. I just don't think I should have to alter her state of mind in order to enjoy my company while everyone else says that I DO, since meeting women outside the Bar Scene isn't working right now.

As for my other relationships, they're all absolutely amazing. I'm very close with my family, my friends always want me around, I have lots of friends at work... THIS is why I'm as confused and frustrated as I am in my dating exploits; how is it that I can form relationships as easily and successfully as this, but women want nothing to do with me once the idea of dating arises?


I'm noticing you had no quarrel about my ability to swoon cats. Point for me? *l* :)

The newsletter's free, but it doesn't have anything that isn't more than simple common sense. I once subscribed to a free newsletter (it may have even been THIS one, I forget), and it was nothing but an advertisement for a book that you HAD to buy because it WILL get you results that the free newsletter promised. No thanks.

Knowing how to manipulate emotions is the key to being successful with women?

Whatever happened to "smile, and the world smiles with you"?

Everyone says this, but then you hear about so many success stories coming out of online services like these or the testimonials of people who have consulted with dating experts and reviews on love advice books/websites that are oh so positive.

How does not trying even logically work?

I've tried to take myself out of the game several times just because I didn't want to put up with all of the contradictions and confusions that the Dating Game confronted me with. After quit, The Fates throw a gorgeous young woman who connects with me on every conceivable level in my direction, and I'm thrown completely off guard! O_O It's true! Stop trying, and she'll find YOU, just like they say! :D Then I start talking to her and she reveals that she's either got a guy in her life or she's been pursued by every guy who ever met her and is at this point completely turned off by the prospect of dating ANYONE.... ****.....

"I can tell you what works for me to meet guys, but what good is that gonna do you? =)"
Probably not a lot, but not for the reasons you may be thinking of. I imagine that your methods of meeting guys would be infinitely more successful than my methods of meeting women simply because you're a woman. As confusing as the art of wooing is, the woman approaching the man makes things a LOT easier. But you can tell me what you do anyway if you'd like. ANY information from someone who doesn't tell me to just stop my *****ing (an ironic twist, given your screen name *lol*) and just get a girl drunk is most welcome.

"I think it's awesome that you put yourself out here for us to talk to and get to know. I'm also grateful that you haven't been offended by my comments and opinions."
I KNOW, huh? I'm being brutally honest with a lot of strangers in here to try to better myself. If I'm brave enough ask about a personal problem to people I don't even know, surely THAT expresses some degree of confidence that the ladies supposedly can't get enough of, right? :P *lol*
Your opinions are just those; opinions. I can take them, or I can't. You adding "no offense" to your first comment was all I needed. You acknowledge that what you have to say might be offensive, but that's not what you want to get across. Sometimes the truth hurts, and if it hurts, sorry about that.

"(I bet you hate hearing that, but when you get to be my age, you'll look back and laugh, I promise you)"
Yeah, I do, but what else CAN I do besides betraying everything I am? *lol* My friends and family don't like me adopting the idea that women are stupid for constantly turning down a smart, attractive guy like me, but I ask you, how ELSE does one expect me to stay happy with myself in a world that apparently wants nothing to do with me? O_o I only try to keep myself on The Hunt because I know how bad that opinion is and I really want to prove myself wrong.

PHOTO:
Got all of that.

GROOMING MAKEOVER:
In the unlikely event of a meeting taking place, I do that too.

NO GUM:
Never liked gum.

NO PROBLEM-SOLVER/NEGATIVITY:
Nothing but Mr. Happy here when talking to a potential date.



Why am I getting nothing?

"You have to think the way YOU want to think and stop letting your friends and society tell you how and where to meet girls."

But don't I HAVE to listen to how society tells me to meet girls? Girls make up (more or less) an entire HALF of society, and it is them I'm trying to appeal to. The only reason dating advice of any kind exists is because thinking the way you want to think yields little (if any) results. I want to think that if I'm a good-looking guy who is easy to get along with, is a good listener as well as conversationalist, has goals in life to aspire to and has a desire to meet the opposite sex for something more meaningful that simply putting my **** into something, THAT should be successful enough for me to still be with the high school sweetheart I never had. Obviously that hasn't happened. I DON'T want to think that women will flock to me if I'm an asshole and all I want is as much sex with as many random women as possible with barely knowing anything about them, but too many people have proved THAT to be more successful than my way of thinking. :(

Thanks Angie. Seems to me like everyone who thinks me cute or a great guy is either much older than me and/or too many states away. Just my luck, huh? *lol*

Your interest in cars does you good, does it? What do young women like that I can like too without being regarded as gay? (I know how much women like hanging out with gay guys who are like girlfriends to them, but I REFUSE to go down that path! :P)