"Bob.....do you have a lighter I can borrow???"
Not one that works, I'm afraid. Kind of hard to get it out to British Columbia anyway. *l*

"Well nice guy or not a man is a man and they all will cheat if they have the oppurtunity and think they have no chance of being caught."
There, see? TongueKISS just made a generalization based on a personal experience that went awry. Are we going to start giving her flack for her opinions too, or are we just going to agree with what she's saying since agreeing with the idea of all men are scum is a popular activity?

"I actually prefer to have open relationships that way no one gets hurt and no one has any fantacies left unsatisfied. You need to lighten up or better get laid... oops you are having some problems in that department aren't you"
So it's wrong for men to cheat on women, but you're cool with sleeping around with as many men as it takes so that no one is left unsatisfied.... Is that right?

"Makes me think you can't just accept things the way they are"
Why should I have to accept something that doesn't make sense?

"If I were to tell you the sky is blue, you'd probably tell me no, it's actually white because it's cloudy today."
If you tell me that the sky is blue, I don't have a lot of evidence or personal experiences to refute such a claim. Bad analogy.

"nobody wants to date someone who is so angry at the world and themselves."
That's very true, isn't it? But I'm not showing the angry side that's coming across in here, and I'm not angry at myself.

"You have an answer for everything, how do you think that makes a young lady feel? Frustrated, and negative towards you."
The last girl I e-mailed complimented me on how learned and wise I was coming across as. Apparently she LOVED talking to me, according to what she said. Can you explain to me why she suddenly stopped talking to me?

"your posts reveal such a jaded, cynical person and a guy who ALWAYS has to "one up" everyone else."
So what, I'm not allowed to respond to anyone anymore? This isn't about one-upping people, it's about trying to gain a better insight on what's going on. I can't help it if I find clear and distinct flaws in the theory and practice of wooing women.

Have you noticed I haven't said anything in rebuttal to what thatplayer89 has been saying? I haven't tried being a "player" and I've seen supposed players succeed where other guys have failed, so I essentially having nothing to respond to it except for silent, bemused consideration.

"I think maybe you should go talk to a counselor about your issues."
Why should I talk to a counselor whose dating history I don't know ANYTHING about, when I could just as easily talk to a BUNCH of people who have a much higher probability of having the same situation as I?

"honestly, i don't think we really know sometimes"
Thank you, txmama74. Thank you. The first step has been taken.

"a lot of people on this site DO read the forums, so, if you think you can have a forum personality and a chatting one, that may be your problem...."
So far, I'm only venting in here. When trying to e-mail someone, I'm being as amiable as e-humanly possible.

"asking a girl out for coffee or dinner isnt gunna make her afraid you think she's a slut...unless you bring up sex...."
No, you misread what I said. I said that if a girl likes me, she's going to be afraid to take action HERSELF, because she doesn't want to look like a slut. Even as advanced and forward-moving as our culture is, too many women still want the first step to be taken by the guy because of the convention of it.

"if you dont ask tha girl out fast?
of course they gonna be interested in another man"
So you're advising me to work fast, but discouraging me from rushing things. Is that right?...

"if they talk to you bout things and actually want your opinion then tell it and see how they react"
Few out there who are more honest than me.

"show you have no interest in them really when they show they want to know you"
But they DON'T show that they want to know me. If I don't get the ball rolling, she won't.

"of course they will flirt if you dont have them 100% interest to you"
And you make them 100% interested in you in the crucial 10-second first impression you have for them by doing what, exactly?

"you act like no girls giving you tha time?
i dont believe in dat bro i really dont"
Well, BELIEVE it.

"just pure confidence conversation and how her life is and wat she wants in life"
And exactly how many did you sleep with that night?

"so i know you have it in yo and i know you can talk to girls just like how i can talk to girls and strike up conversations"
I know I have it in me too because I've been saying it for THIRTEEN PAGES in this thread alone now.

"when a girl is really interested to know you bro
she will have her eyes set to you and her time and patience to you"
When a girl is really interested in getting to know me, she won't say a damn word out of fear of me thinking that she's a slut.

"there are wonderful decent females out there especially on this site who are so most loving and dearly to do so much for their man"
I've been here for more than a year. Where ARE they?

"i dont know you but you showed me so far you show yourself as a negatiuve type of guy, but your not a prick"
Again, you've only seen my JSH forum side, which isn't a particularly pleasurable one, I'll be the first to admit. But if you were a young lady who caught my fancy and I tried to e-mail you, it'd be a COMPLETELY different story.

"so why base something of some female put you down"
I'm not. I'm basing something on the entire group of females as a whole, and then I'm attacked for unfairly generalizing.

"im too loving and sweet, and they always like guys (no matter wat mood they are in)who show their side of caring smiles and just positive vibes"
Then why am I not getting one thing?....

"if you get along with girl dont rush it first find out wat she really wants"
I don't rush it. I take my time to really get to know her. Then by the time I feel like I've got enough ammo to ask the girl out, someone ELSE already swooped down and stole her away from me. If I moved that fast it would be disastrous, but that doesn't seem to bother her for OTHER guys apparently.

"then when they really show they need a guy there for them, be there for them"
They've got plenty of OTHER guy friends for heavy emotional support. Girls liking me isn't the problem, but they NEVER come to me in the kind of needy emotional state that guys can only dream of.

"if a girl turns you down dot take it too serious, cause she a fool to turn you down"
I do think that. My friends and family are starting to become worried about my psychological wellbeing if I adopt that frame of mind.

"you must show you are too good for any girl to even be with you
and POSITIVITY AND CONFIDENCE AND CHARM AND LOVE is wat you need to show them"
So I show them that I'm too good for them by trying to show them charm and love? That doesn't make sense. The best thing that I can think of to express the idea that I'm too good for them is to simply not talk to them, and if I don't talk to them, then they don't talk to me.

"if i can talk to many girls offline and such as on this place
you can do it too!!"
You're not listening to me. I DO talk to girls, both here and almost everywhere I go. I just DON'T MATTER to them.

Complicating what things? Open expression of self-worth? No, I've actually been attacked for that quite a few times already.

"if you dont love yourself, one cannot fall in love with you!"
I DO love myself, but upon expression of that opinion, I'm then accused of being a pretentious prick. I'm basically in a lose-lose situation on whatever opinions about myself that I have, aren't I? O_o

"dont try too hard"
And what is TOO hard again? There are guys all over the internet (Mystery, David d'Angelo, etc.) who gave it their all and MORE than their all, and now they're worshiped like gods. I know not to try "too" hard, since past experience has told me that any minute inclination of deeper feelings that I have for a person will make her flee.

"have you really ben hurt so bad? its hard for you to trust females on wat they even say?"

Ummmmmm...........

Yup.

Yeah, been hurt pretty bad. I can trust women in virtually every OTHER respect, but they have not shown me that their word on what they prefer in men is genuine. (Let's all hope and pray that trustingfate and AMPdog can prove me wrong.)

"I believe all women collectively have the power and beauty of individuality and expect the respect and admiration it deserves."
Uh-huh. And when they DO get that respect, they don't appreciate it.

"You are letting what HAS happen to you, affect what WILL happen to you..."
Are you implying that it's somehow MY fault that women express a great delight in talking to me and then suddenly want nothing to do with me?

"Try a pic that shows your smile....the one you have up is intimidating to say the least...scary....you look angry....."
You think THIS is angry? This is me trying to look intriguing and mysterious. Trust me.... You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.....

As for me smiling, there aren't any pics of me smiling where I don't look (unintentionally!!!!) scary, or when I'm in a set of bizarre, generally unappealing circumstances. Look at my MySpace pics.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=15620967

Anything you'd recommend I use for my JSH?

"But do you think if you have a scarred and jaded heart that anyone wants to share that?"
As to my understanding, part of the supposed appeal behind the Bad Boy is that he was once scarred early in life (a possible explanation for his projection of his Bad Boy persona) and it's up to the women (being the helpful, nurturing creatures they apparently are) to try to heal the poor, tormented soul. But then you have to wonder why women don't like trying to help the sexually inept?...

"Isn't there a part of you that you want to share that is positive that someone else might be attracted to?"
This is something I still can't come to a solid conclusion over. Do women like people who are unique and artistic, or don't they? :S I think I've got a LOT going for me that someone else could be attracted to, but I'm playing to an empty house here.

I'm sorry, CaRisLOVE, but I can barely understand a word you're saying. I myself normally dislike it when someone attacks someone else for their use of grammar, spelling, and punctuation, but I'm only catching about 20% of what you're saying. "Why think negative"? Didn't you just reread the entire forum? I could write a BOOK on why I'm thinking negatively. :S

"your attitude and thinking is probably having a bigger impact on your behavior than you think it does. You seem to have convinced yourself of how things are before things actually happen."
Actually no. I scan around to see if there are any new users in my area (here and on a handful of other dating services), and every so often there will come a new profile that catches my eye. "Hey, would you look at that," I think to myself as I read her stuff, "an attractive young lady who lives less than 25 miles away from me with a bunch of interests that correspond with my own! Jackpot! :D" I remind myself again and again that in this horrible Numbers Game, I need only be rejected so many times before I finally stumble on one girl who will actually find me attractive and want to be with me. I keep pushing myself with the prospect that the next one WILL be the one who wants to spend some time with me. As cynical as I'm coming across, there IS hope in this scarred and jaded heart and mind. Would I really be coming back in here and elsewhere if I had already reached a concrete conclusion and just giving women up cold turkey?

"I say what i mean..and i would never do anything just to prove a point...i'm way to old for that."
Well, at age 29, MAYBE you mean what you say, but in my preferred age group of 18-25, I see way too many girls who say they want one thing but go after another.

I'm glad SOMEONE got something worth telling their future grandkids out of my predicament, anyway..... :(

.....damn it all to Hell......

"How about just thinking about things more positively and less cynically? Just let relationships flow, be yourself. Don't work so hard for it."
In a world of appreciation followed by constant, inexplicable rejection, I fail to see exactly what there is to be positive about. Out of letting relationships flow and being myself, I've gathered a LOT of friendships in my young life, some more strong than others. But why am I seemingly not allowed to have anything BEYOND simple friendship?

And what happens when I stop trying so hard? I stay at home most of the time, keep interaction with strangers to a minimum, and then I'm accused of not trying hard ENOUGH. Tell me why I shouldn't be frustrated by that.

"I mean take trustingfate for example. I bet because of my confidence right now that if I asked her out for a date right here on the forums... she would say yes."
If you asked her out on a public forum like this, she would only say "yes" to try to prove some sort of point, whether or not she actually had some degree of interest in you. No doubt if I did that with a girl who lived (roughly) in my neck of the woods, she'd be playing it all up just for the sake of looking nice too. If you had given her invite to her via private e-mail, your chances of a positive outcome would be DRAMATICALLY cut short. Think you that I'm wearing my Cynical Face when trying to e-mail? I'm always sure to be wearing my Happy Face since, as trustingfate would observe, who wants a cynic? Nonetheless, despite being positive and confident, only 1 out of 12 girls I write ever take the chance to talk to me, and despite my efforts to keep the conversation going, the 1 who DOES reply to me stops talking a week (at most) later without one single warning of waning interest.

"Bobzeaux - Are you generally this cynical about women all the time?"
Only the ones who say they want one thing but ignore that one thing when it's staring them in the face and they instead chase after the exact opposite.

I'm not believing your attraction to sweet, nerdy guys, glitterybee, because you JUST commented on how women like making guys think that women like one thing, when in reality women like something completely different. How can you follow up that statement with a supposed interest of yours and NOT expect someone to think it's false?

What's my deal? My deal is that the people I surround myself with (who all have no/little trouble with attracting women) will all swear blind that I am a great guy to be around, and they can't imagine why no woman is open to the idea of going out on a single date with me. My deal is that I have no problems whatsoever in the field of connecting with women and they love me to death, but they can never see me as anything beyond friends. My deal is I've read a LOT of material on the subject of more positive male-female social interaction, and it all either contradicts some OTHER basic form of interaction or it just plain doesn't make any sense and no one is able to clarify exactly what it means. My deal is that I see women constantly falling for guys who they KNOW are only going to bite them in the proverbial ass not too much later in life, and they don't even seem to care. My deal is that every day that goes by, the more it looks like women will only be receptive to me if I get them drunk first. My deal is that I've been living my whole life as a Nice Guy, and despite my efforts expressing my unique sense of humor, honing my sense of confidence and self-satisfaction, and learning how to play the active-listener, I'm getting absolutely NOTHING. My deal is that I'm trying on the shoes of the Emotional Challenge that women are rumored to enjoy, but they don't like the taste of it so far.

THAT is my deal. Thank you for asking.

Reality? I find the idea of giant robots from outer space being more believable than Shia la Beouf getting hooked up with super-hottie Megan Fox. And a realistic Optimus Prime would NEVER say "Sorry, my bad".

"wat i just think is funny how some people truly bandwaggoned to love transformers after this movie lol"
That's PRECISELY what I'm talking about. Why did SOOOO many suddenly claim that it was the best movie since Citizen Kane, and that anyone who hates it needs to move out of their parents' basement?? It's the emperor's new clothes in 2.5 hours of film.

"are you talking about mystery? that guy is a joke."
Yeah, and he's got women crawling ALL OVER HIM! Why? I can't tell. I can't watch his stuff without being terribly confused.

"Just be who you are ... that is enough."
IS it?

"the only reason why you think it works on all women is because we let you. (note: it doesn't. i prefer sweet nerdy guys who get nervous for you and fix your computer when its broken.)"
Just like you let us believe that you're really interested in sweet nerdy guys? I'm not buying that for a second.

"Hey now, I do want a good man in my life"
Yeah, sorry about that, blueeysinfl. I'd LIKE to show you that there are still good men on the internet (per your challenge in your profile), but what would be the point? Seems like all the best people available are clear on the opposite side of the country, no matter WHERE you are. :S

If you have nothing to say, maja, all you have to do is say so.

Yes, please do. Slap me in the face for expressing my opinion. Put me in my place for not agreeing with everything you say, just like you girls say you want from men.

Show me a girl who claims to want a good man in her life and actually PURSUES a good man, and maybe I'll "lighten up".