Topic: Dinosaurs
Dragoness's photo
Tue 01/29/08 11:52 AM

Fresh water and Salt Water mix slowly. In fact, if you make salt water and slowly add fresh water on top of it, the two won't mix at all. Agitation is required for the two to mix. I'm sure there are plenty of Gratuitous Assertions and other fallacies running through your collective heads, so here is a science experiment designed for children that should prove the concept.

http://educ.queensu.ca/~science/main/concept/is/i01/I01DESF2.html

So with the water levels rising, the majority of the fresh water and salt water wouldn't mix immediately. The areas that were covered by the flood would be mostly fresh water. The oceans and seas would be salt water covered by fresh water.

And yes, I have seen a freshwater fish in a saltwater tank. In fact, Xenopus Laevis (an aquatic frog from Africa) and African Ciclids have all been recorded to have lived in salt water quite well. How long they can live there, I don't know, but it is possible. All fresh water fish will survive better in slightly salty water. Freshwater is 1% salt and oceanwater is 3.5% salt. Most freshwater and saltwater fish can survive in large changes of salinity.

Here's a helpful article on the subject.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/fish14.asp


Now you are trying to hard to make it fit. If it rained enough to cover the whole world in rain water then our oceans today would be fresh water. Especially since the earth is not as old as the evolutionists say it is, right?

Dragoness's photo
Tue 01/29/08 11:55 AM

i'm not sure i buy your explanation. did god make the air cold as well? rain isn't often too much colder than the surrounding air. and if dinosaurs were exothermic, i'm sure they'd be capable of moving to the more shallow water and keep warmth.


Just reading this made me realize even more problems with this picture (like there aren’t already too many).

But was the rain fresh water or salt water?

If it was fresh water and it was enough water to cover the whole planet then it would have diluted the oceans enough to have kills all marine life anyway.

If it was salt water, then it would have contaminated all of the fresh water lakes, rivers and streams. In fact, all those lakes rivers and streams would have been contaminated anyway. No matter how you look at it, if the entire world was flooded all the water would have been mixed together everything would have died. All species of fish everywhere on the planet. Moreover, when the waters receded, how would all the freshwater fish find their way back into nice little pockets of freshwater, and the ocean fishes make sure then ended up in the correct temporal zone of the ocean and not hung up on dry land somewhere or in a fresh water lake or river.

The idea of a world-wide flood is so outrageous that a person would need to believe that God really went out of his way big time to perform this absurd miracle. But why bother with such a messy plan?

Surely an all-wise, all-powerful God could do better than this. Just plague the sinners a disease specific to them. Drowning out the whole planet is really the lamest idea that anyone could possibly come up with. Surely God couldn’t possibly be this lame.

I seriously can’t believe this whole picture wasn’t tossed aside with Greek Mythology. It’s certainly no less outrageous. And in many ways it’s seriously even more absurd. Yet look at how many people believe this stuff today.

For me, this is genuinely scary. The man sitting in the White House next to “The Button”, actually believes this stuff? He’s liable to do anything! This is crazy!

I’m glad the story of Noah’s ark and the flood made it into the Bible because that’s definitely going to help be an anchor to drag it to the bottom of the sea of humanities worst follies. It’s got to go down eventually and if this story helps sink the whole book then so be it! I’m glad its in there because I think there is a lot of nasty crap in this book and the sooner the whole book sinks the better off humanity will be.

And Jesus even referred to this story like as if it really happened. So it can't just be tossed aside like it never belonged. It's part of the story forever. To reject the story of Noah’s ark means to reject the whole biblical picture. Yet, it’s ultimately going to have to be rejected. No doubt about it.

It’s just a matter of time.



Abra, it is not a matter of time the time is here and now. The creationist will lose this battle. The bible is a story book and should be given as much consideration when it comes to the facts within it. Now if one wants to use it in a symbolic sense that would be less painful for them. But scientifically and historically it has zero value.

toastedoranges's photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:02 PM
Edited by toastedoranges on Tue 01/29/08 12:02 PM
thing is...

less than a handful of species that defy the rules doesn't set new rules for all.


and i don't buy that the oceans wouldn't mix, they are always in motion. there might be less salt in the water at top, but it would not be fresh water sitting on top of salt

toastedoranges's photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:04 PM
thing is...

less than a handful of species that defy the rules don't set new rules for all.


and i don't buy that the oceans wouldn't mix, they are always in motion. there might be less salt in the water at top, but it would not be fresh water sitting on top of salt

toastedoranges's photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:04 PM
thing is...

less than a handful of species that defy the rules don't set new rules for all.


and i don't buy that the oceans wouldn't mix, they are always in motion. there might be less salt in the water at top, but it would not be fresh water sitting on top of salt

toastedoranges's photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:04 PM
thing is...

less than a handful of species that defy the rules don't set new rules for all.


and i don't buy that the oceans wouldn't mix, they are always in motion. there might be less salt in the water at top, but it would not be fresh water sitting on top of salt

no photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:04 PM

no, i cannot argue that enough water from the sky to raise the oceans high enough to burry the land would not change the temp. but there would still be warmer water at the top, life would just migrate there.

SOME fish handle temp changes well, a lot don't.

why did some reptilian sea life die out while others did not?


just saying, it's full of huge holes


Whoa now, that's not true. Water has a high specific heat, a great deal of heat energy is required to raise the temperature of water. When energy is put into water, the molecules become more active and evaporate, which results in a loss of heat. That's why custard is cooked in ramekins partially submerged in water, because the water will prevent the custard from ever going above 212 f. The temperature of the top water would decrease in temperature and you would have a roll over, where the water lower down was warmer and would trade places with the top water. Throughout the 40 days, you would see a constantly dropping water temperature at all but the deepest depths. Any aquatic reptile would have it's body temperature reduced by going up for breath. It's fairly certain that there would be a great deal of agitation of the surface water, so the struggle to breath added to the cold could have killed the aquatic reptiles.

no photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:04 PM
Edited by Spidercmb on Tue 01/29/08 12:07 PM
laugh

no photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:04 PM
Edited by Spidercmb on Tue 01/29/08 12:08 PM
:tongue:

no photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:05 PM
Edited by Spidercmb on Tue 01/29/08 12:08 PM
glasses

toastedoranges's photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:07 PM

Double post?


tripple?

no photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:07 PM


Fresh water and Salt Water mix slowly. In fact, if you make salt water and slowly add fresh water on top of it, the two won't mix at all. Agitation is required for the two to mix. I'm sure there are plenty of Gratuitous Assertions and other fallacies running through your collective heads, so here is a science experiment designed for children that should prove the concept.

http://educ.queensu.ca/~science/main/concept/is/i01/I01DESF2.html

So with the water levels rising, the majority of the fresh water and salt water wouldn't mix immediately. The areas that were covered by the flood would be mostly fresh water. The oceans and seas would be salt water covered by fresh water.

And yes, I have seen a freshwater fish in a saltwater tank. In fact, Xenopus Laevis (an aquatic frog from Africa) and African Ciclids have all been recorded to have lived in salt water quite well. How long they can live there, I don't know, but it is possible. All fresh water fish will survive better in slightly salty water. Freshwater is 1% salt and oceanwater is 3.5% salt. Most freshwater and saltwater fish can survive in large changes of salinity.

Here's a helpful article on the subject.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/fish14.asp


Now you are trying to hard to make it fit. If it rained enough to cover the whole world in rain water then our oceans today would be fresh water. Especially since the earth is not as old as the evolutionists say it is, right?


I'm trying hard to make it fit? I talk about the accepted fact that salt and fresh water don't mix quickly and that's "trying hard". ohwell

toastedoranges's photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:17 PM
there are still many turtle species and snakes that reside in the water

spqr's photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:31 PM

There are dinosaurs in all ancient societies, as well as giants. Google the words nephilum, leviathan, and behemoth.
Dinosaurs actually lived among men, as the Bible points to and ancient societies have written about. Dragon stories are not all fables.:wink:

Just as apoint of interest. notice the climate change of the world before and after the flood. the face of the earth has changed a good deal.


laugh laugh laugh
You are simply hilarious

spqr's photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:34 PM

The earth used to be watered from the ground. This caused a green house effect in which the dinosours and large reptiles could inhabit. There was a climate change as it had never rained before the flood occured. The details are not ALL there but history and most pre-new testament societies have recorded 'dragons' and beasts of that nature. As far as your timeline goes. The carbon dating is a presumtive tool and another form of circular reasoning proven to be highly flawed.:heart:

laugh laugh laugh
"The earth used to be watered from the ground." care to explain the concept with "some" common sense or proof?
YI say the earth was watered from the moon, that we all know is made of cheese, actually mozzarella cheese. SO one night, the moon cried and there was the flood...right?

toastedoranges's photo
Tue 01/29/08 12:46 PM
laugh laugh laugh
"The earth used to be watered from the ground." care to explain the concept with "some" common sense or proof?
YI say the earth was watered from the moon, that we all know is made of cheese, actually mozzarella cheese. SO one night, the moon cried and there was the flood...right?



laugh laugh

no photo
Tue 01/29/08 01:28 PM


The earth used to be watered from the ground. This caused a green house effect in which the dinosours and large reptiles could inhabit. There was a climate change as it had never rained before the flood occured. The details are not ALL there but history and most pre-new testament societies have recorded 'dragons' and beasts of that nature. As far as your timeline goes. The carbon dating is a presumtive tool and another form of circular reasoning proven to be highly flawed.:heart:

laugh laugh laugh
"The earth used to be watered from the ground." care to explain the concept with "some" common sense or proof?
YI say the earth was watered from the moon, that we all know is made of cheese, actually mozzarella cheese. SO one night, the moon cried and there was the flood...right?



artesian well.

yzrabbit1's photo
Tue 01/29/08 01:33 PM

What about Johna and the whale.

Whales cannot swallow people, they have that big sieve in the way for eating very small krill.

Abracadabra's photo
Tue 01/29/08 01:58 PM
Abra, it is not a matter of time the time is here and now. The creationist will lose this battle. The bible is a story book and should be given as much consideration when it comes to the facts within it. Now if one wants to use it in a symbolic sense that would be less painful for them. But scientifically and historically it has zero value.


You’re right. There is no ‘real’ battle with creationists. The creationists lost that battle a long time ago. All that’s left are a few kooks on web sites and the crackpot web sites that they link to. The vast majority of intelligent people don’t even waist their time thinking about this silliness anymore.

I’m not ‘arguing’ against a literal creationists view. I’m just pointing out how utterly irrational it is. They don’t have a valid point left to argue about. Every point they bring up has already been officially shown to be irrational by science many years ago. These are just the holdouts who can’t comprehend reason at all.

The real question today is what makes people hold out against such obvious and well-established reason?

This is really question that’s on my mind. Why do they take such an obviously absurd stance?

That’s what I don’t understand. What does it take to help this people become reasonable? Or are they genuinely beyond help?

Abracadabra's photo
Tue 01/29/08 02:04 PM


What about Johna and the whale.

Whales cannot swallow people, they have that big sieve in the way for eating very small krill.


Would it really matter?

Wasn't he supposed to have lived in the whale's stomach for something like 3 days?

Who can hold their breath for 3 days?

The idea that he was sitting around actually 'breathing' in the whale's tummy is absurd beyond absurd.

It's clearly another parable to make a point. Not a true story.

The whole book is parables. Why is that so hard for some people to understand this?