that is what you fail to see...you are trying to blame me for your behavior...you have to take responsibility for it yourself..you are suppose to be the christian but you are losing control and resorting to name calling.....unless this is normal christian behavior ...well that would explain why holy wars take place

Dragoness, Funches, Abra,

Now come on folks, I could safely say that I have disagreed with 'Dr.spidercbm', on just about every word of every post I've read of his, in the past 10 months.

But this one is right on!

Finally, I must admit the guy makes complete sense with his comments.

Let's look at the perfect track again.



That's impeccable. Flawless.

Can't argue with the 'Dr.' on that one. I mean, I for one, do not think 'spider' is stupid, and I certainly never called him stupid, and yet I would not hesitate to say that most of his posts are ridiculously stupid.

So on this one, totally agree with the 'Dr.'.



Certainly wouldn't want to forfeit my 'free speech' right to think that way about the 'Dr.'s posts, and now that he makes it so clear, I'LL BE SURE TO USE MY 'FREE SPEECH' PRIVILEGE WHEN REPLYING TO THE 'DR.' POSTS IN THE FUTURE AND OFFER HIS STATEMENTS THE 'STUPID' ACCOLLADE WHEN DESERVED.

Again, I totally agree with the 'Dr.'.



There's another GEM the 'Dr' with which I totally agree.

Of course I want to keep exercising my right to denounce the 'Dr.'s 'logic less', and unfounded posts without fear of being persecuted.



And here again, I couldn't agree more with the 'Dr.'.

He just offered us a royal flush of perfectly intelligent statements, only to turn the gun on himself, which make them all pretty stupid statements in light of his record on these forums.

Impeccable demonstration 'Dr.spidercbm'.

'Dr.spidercbm',

I'm glad I have kept insisting that you do 'mirror work'.

Of course, you do not master the results yet, but the progress is obvious.

Baby steps! That'S the only way 'spider'.

:)

Geez, all the drama aside, I've seen some pretty far-fetched theories in here. I especially like the one about how it was the great flood that killed off the dinosaurs. One would then have to assume that dinosaurs existed as little as 10,000 years ago or less.
We must remember than before God created man, there was no such thing as "time". The Bible uses the term 7 days, but the reality is, the world was created in 6 "phases" and for the 7th, God rested. As the Hymn says,"A thousand ages in Thy sight is like a moment gone." To assume that God works on the same plane of knowledge and time that we have is a dangerous assumption.
The reason the Bible does not mention dinosaurs(and it don't)is the Bible is supposed to be an instructional handbook for US. The mention of dinosaurs in the Bible would be superfluous at best.

I have typically avoided wasting my time going to these crackpot sites. I’ve been to so many of them in the past that they are seriously a waste of time.

However, since you posted this I thought I’d give it an honest go. And I did. I went to the site without any predetermined ideas. And I was totally open to reading what they have to say without any prejudgment that they were going to be a ‘crackpot site’.

But I didn’t even get past the first paragraph before the site proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that it is indeed a crackpot site.

From that Mr. Ken Ham from his site:



BINGO!!!!

Right off the bat, what is he doing????

REDEFINING THE MEANING OF SCIENCE!

Well, excuse me!

But if he isn’t willing to accept the scientific method for what it is and he has to redefine what science is to being his brainwashing scheme, then why should I read any further???

The guy is clearly a crackpot already.

However, let’s go a little further and see what else he has to say,…



But WAIT A MINUTE!

The man has TRICKED YOU!

He has already REDEFINED the MEANING of what HE is calling SCIENCE!

He’s already got you brainwashed before he’s even started.

He’s a fraudulent trickster twisting words around to suit his own agenda just like our own infamous Spider.

A twister of WORDS!

Finally, what does he say before he even begins his brainwashing scheme????



Here he brainwashes his readers further trying to convince them science is really just a faith-based guess.

The man is misrepresenting the truth here. Isn’t that commonly known as lying.

When people purposely mislead you and distort the truth for the purpose of deceiving you to fulfill their agenda and lead you away from truth isn’t that what we call lying.

I would say that considering everything that I have seen thus far this Mr. Ken Ham is nothing more than a deceitful liar.

And I make no apologies for my conclusions because I have clearly outlined my reasons above why it is that he is misrepresenting the truth. (i.e. He is lying to you)

Anything he has to say after his initial misrepresentation of what science is, and what he claims his faith-based creationism ideas are is totally meaningless and without any scientific merit at all, because he has rejected the true meaning of science.

And it’s a real shame that I had to waste my time to expose this crackpot liar.

Folks, if you want to know about real science please learn about it from reputable sources.

Don’t believe these religious fundamentalists. They have absolutely no inhibitions about outright lying. They have absolutely no sense of morality whatsoever unfortunately.

They’ll lie through their teeth to support their entirely faith-based religious beliefs.

I can’t believe that religious fanatics are willing to stoop so low that they will actually lie just to proselytize their beliefs. It’s really sad.

Wouldn't it more honest to just accept that the Bible can't be taken literally?

What's wrong with being HONEST?

Why do religious fundamentalists insist on always LYING?

Geez, if they have to LIE to save their religion it's pretty sad isn't it?

Could not agree more.....He asked....it was provided all the rest to me is blah blah blah.





P.S. As a side not he asked for an explanation of Bible scripture.....not Panthiest whatever.

I don't care who posted the answer, it was a LIE.

Even religious people need to learn to tell the TRUTH.

EXACTLY!

You can be religious and tell the TRUTH.

It IS POSSIBLE!

All people need to do is quite trying to take the Bible as though it is a factually precise scientific document.

It was never meant to be that precise.

Why LIE??? Just to try to force a verbatim approach to the Bible????

It simply isn't necessary

A person CAN be religious and tell the TRUTH too!

Seriously, this really is POSSIBLE.

Just accept that the Bible is allegorical and not a verbatim textbook.

It's just not necessary to become a LIAR just to be religious.

this is a forum where issues are debated and discuss just because one choose not to agree with another's point of view is no reason to call that point of view stupid because it then suggest that the poster was stupid when they composed the post

calling someone's post stupid is actually taunting the poster to respond back in a negative manner

forrest gump said it best ...stupid is that stupid does..so think twice before calling someone stupid whether it's to them as a person or at their post...because what's the difference when both are of the same person

wow...interesting stuff

religous folk

It's not a lie to me......Mr. superiority.....Judge least you be judged Mr....and remember that you are the one that lets others believe as they wish....boooooshwuaaa

yes I know what you mean because I feel the same way about the threads I start here in the religion forum when I ask for a rational explanation to my original question

I still can’t get over this web site,…

It says,…

1. Let’s do away with real science
2. Let’s call anything I say “science”
3. Let’s pretend that Creationism is Science
4. Let’s pronounce that evolution is a faith-based farce.

Brainwashed yet,…

Good,…

Now let’s proceed to look a creationism “scientifically”

That’s a respectable web site?

Oh please.

I can’t get over this.

And Spidercmb supports this website?

I hope lots of people are taking notes here.

I'm not 'judging' anyone.

I'm pointing out the logical fact that the web site purposefully, knowingly and fraudulently brainwashes the reader.

We normally think of that as lying. YOU be the judge!

The man casts aside the true definition of science. The definition that scientists adhere to!

Then redefines the word to mean something totally different

They he goes on to talk about creationism constantly referring to what he is doing as "science".

That’s purposeful deception for the purpose of evading truth.

Now I ask you,… is purposeful deception for the sake of evading truth lying????

If not, then how do you define lying?

I'm a Christian and I see the lying ALL the time. The Catholic church being one of the worst offenders next to the fundamentalists.
The funny thing is, science on more than one occassion has proved certain parts of the Bible to be true, but the agnostic community which holds so dearly to the "religion" of science still won't acknowledge that fact.
As for the Bible just being full of allegorical tales I can't quite go with that. I DO believe that the stories in the bible are real, BUT, you cannot take what the Bible says literally.
The problem with doing that is, it's a translation, of a translation, of a translation etc, of a language that maybe 3 ppl on the entire planet can read today. Even with translation from one modern language to another, some meaning gets lost.
Sorry folks, but the bible is NOT a faithfully rendered translation of the original Aramaic.

However, there IS one message in the Bible that requires NO debate over translation or anything else, and that is, "LOVE ONE ANOTHER."

The article in question wasn't written by Ken Ham, it was written by Dr. John N. Moore, Professor Emeritus of Natural Sciences, Michigan State University.

What is the accepted defintion of science and what points of Dr Moore's defintion do you disagree with?

The Bible isn't all in Aramaic, it's in Hebrew, Greek and a little bit of Aramaic. The entire NT is Greek and all but a little of the OT is in Hebrew. There are probably millions of people who can read the OT in the original Hebrew and I would guess millions who can read the whole Bible. My neighbor is learning Hebrew and has a Hebrew version of the Bible. I regularly use a Hebrew dictionary and the original texts in my Bible study.

Sorry I was referring pecifically to the OT, seeing as how the OT and the NT represent almost 2 different religious views.
HOWEVER, the books of the OT that seem to provide the most controversy ARE originally in Aramaic, generally the 1st 5 books of the OT.
And besides ,the fact that many books are in Greek and or Hebrew also prove my point about translations. Even with modern languages, meanings get lost in translations

Most fundamentalists will jump at the chance to use scientific evidence to support their religion. They only reject scientific evidence when it conflicts with their views.



I wouldn’t say that either. I think some things are at least based in-part on actual historical events, people and places. After all, the people who wrote (or began the oral tradition of) these stories would be influenced their life experience. So it’s natural that many of the events did actually occur. The question is whether or not those events actually had any divine intervention associated with them.

Even Greek Mythology can be connected with real people and real events, that doesn’t mean that the mystical or divine parts are true.

Same with the Bible. Just because we can find the ruins of cities and evidence that battles, etc. and even ancient documentation concerning these events, none of that proves or even implies that any divine intervention was connected with those events.

A lot of people, (myself include) believe that that story of Noah’s Flood was actually sparked by an actual catastrophic flood, probably cased by seismic activity, or it could have due to abnormally heavy rains, maybe in combination with a quick spring thaw. There are a lot of potential scenarios that could cause a massive flood that would wipe out an entire basin containing a couple ancient cities. Maybe the tails of people really carrying on were true too. That still doesn’t prove any divine intervention.

Same thing with the New Testament. Most non-Christians believe that a man named Jesus actually lived, taught and preached and was probably unjustly crucified. That’s an easily believable story right there.

If you could find physical proof that Jesus lived, and taught those stories, and was indeed crucified, you would still have absolutely no proof whatsoever of any divinity.

I mean you could prove the same thing about Hercules. If you had indisputable proof that a Greek man name Hercules actually lived and was an outstanding athlete would you accept that as proof that Zeus was his father???

Proof of biblical events doesn’t prove its divinity. It only proofs that it was indeed written by ancient men about their daily lives. But most non-believers will grant that anyway. That doesn’t convince anyone of anything.

Well, it would convince believers. They are convinced by anything.

No meant to be a blanket statement, but I hope you know what I mean.

Oh, by the way, another reason why verbatim perfectionism is abusrd,…

Both the Bible and the Quran share many of the same stories. However, they differ in their details. Same people, sometimes with differnet names, same places (often described the same but with different names too), same basic stories with slightly differnet twists, meanings and endings.

Both of these book arose from the same folklore.

So to believe that the Bible is 100% accurate and preserved, then we must believe that the Quran is 100% contaminated and incorrect.

What is much more likely is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Neither of these book can be 100% correct. It’s totally unreasonable to pretend that this could be the case.

So the idea that the Bible can be taken as a verbatim religious doctrine is serious flawed.