i'm not sure if anyone linked this yet, but i do so love this picture. i believe it's taken from the creationism museum

http://www.ncseweb.org/images/aig20.jpg

I can't say for sure how accurate the bible is, because, well I'm not that old. I was not present whe it was written, none of us were lol. Unless someone knows something and isn't sharing.

I honestly wasn't looking to start a "Bible isn't pssible" thread. I valued everyones opinion, yes even abra's, as I myself do not believe in god but I tend to keep that to myself.

Please do not try to convince me, otherwise. I have not believed in God since I was 9 and really don't care to start.
If, wen I die, I do go to Heaven, I will apologize and ask for forgiveness but trust me I am not holding my breath for it.

I really do appreciate everyones input, but I will probly no post in this forum again. Nothing personal, but it's the only way to make sure I keep my opinions to myself lol.

Please do not misunderstand!

I'm not saying the "Bible isn't Possible".

I'm saying a Verbatim Interpretation of the Bible isn't possible.

There is a huge difference here.

Using the book for personal spiritual insight as a collection of moral parables to use as guidelines for living your own life is great. If you believe those moral insights were indeed inspired by a supernatural being fine. There’s nothing wrong with any of that.

But if you plan on using the book as a proclamation of how all men should live based on a verbatim interpretation of it, then you’re going to live a life of constant turmoil with your fellow man.

That’s all I’m saying.

Believe in the Bible all you want, just don’t try to convince me that it’s a verbatim instruction book for all mankind because I will reject that proclamation, and I’ll reject it very meticulously by pointing out why that can’t possibly be the case.

In other words, if you’re seeking personal spirituality more power to you!

If you’re seeking to carve into stone how your follow man should live, then go pee in a lake.

Just some light-hearted comments here.

I imagine that you are indeed interested in personal spirituality and truth, and you aren’t out to tell other people how they ought to live, or judge them for not following a particular book.

And that’s cool.

Just be aware of the trap that can be fallen into if you start believing too much in a book, and turn your back on the spirit. There’s much more to life than worshiping a book.

The extinction of dinosaurs is due to effects of the new climate after the Flood. As I said in the evolution thread, Sylvias book explains this a whole lot better than what I have read online; its a whole chapter so I cant exactly copy-paste.

why did the IN WATER dinosaurs die out?

Would you like me to guess?

My guess is that the ocean got very cold from 40 days of rain and they died. Those reptiles on the Ark were able to survive because of the bodyheat onboard the vessel.

well aside from the issues of..

where'd all the water come from?

where did all the water go?



i'm not sure i buy your explanation. did god make the air cold as well? rain isn't often too much colder than the surrounding air. and if dinosaurs were exothermic, i'm sure they'd be capable of moving to the more shallow water and keep warmth.

and why did other sea life survive? even other exothermic sea life?

Just reading this made me realize even more problems with this picture (like there aren’t already too many).

But was the rain fresh water or salt water?

If it was fresh water and it was enough water to cover the whole planet then it would have diluted the oceans enough to have kills all marine life anyway.

If it was salt water, then it would have contaminated all of the fresh water lakes, rivers and streams. In fact, all those lakes rivers and streams would have been contaminated anyway. No matter how you look at it, if the entire world was flooded all the water would have been mixed together everything would have died. All species of fish everywhere on the planet. Moreover, when the waters receded, how would all the freshwater fish find their way back into nice little pockets of freshwater, and the ocean fishes make sure then ended up in the correct temporal zone of the ocean and not hung up on dry land somewhere or in a fresh water lake or river.

The idea of a world-wide flood is so outrageous that a person would need to believe that God really went out of his way big time to perform this absurd miracle. But why bother with such a messy plan?

Surely an all-wise, all-powerful God could do better than this. Just plague the sinners a disease specific to them. Drowning out the whole planet is really the lamest idea that anyone could possibly come up with. Surely God couldn’t possibly be this lame.

I seriously can’t believe this whole picture wasn’t tossed aside with Greek Mythology. It’s certainly no less outrageous. And in many ways it’s seriously even more absurd. Yet look at how many people believe this stuff today.

For me, this is genuinely scary. The man sitting in the White House next to “The Button”, actually believes this stuff? He’s liable to do anything! This is crazy!

I’m glad the story of Noah’s ark and the flood made it into the Bible because that’s definitely going to help be an anchor to drag it to the bottom of the sea of humanities worst follies. It’s got to go down eventually and if this story helps sink the whole book then so be it! I’m glad its in there because I think there is a lot of nasty crap in this book and the sooner the whole book sinks the better off humanity will be.

And Jesus even referred to this story like as if it really happened. So it can't just be tossed aside like it never belonged. It's part of the story forever. To reject the story of Noah’s ark means to reject the whole biblical picture. Yet, it’s ultimately going to have to be rejected. No doubt about it.

It’s just a matter of time.

well, i don't believe fresh or salt water would have effected the sea dwelling dinosoars. pretty sure they were still dependant on going to the surface to breathe

You don't believe that fourty days of constant rain would drop the surface temperature? Could you explain to me why fourty days of darkness and rain wouldn't lower the surface temperature? A short shower during the summer lowers the temperature by 10 degrees or so.

Why would other exothermic species survive? Like fish? They would survive just fine, most fish (even tropical fish) do just fine in colder water if the temperature is lowered slowly (as would have happened with the flood). After fourty days, the temperature of the water would start to increase and they would have time to adapt to the slowly rising temperature. Why are fish able to operate in temperatures that would render a reptile unable to move? I'm not sure, but they do it every day. Fish live in temperatures that would quickly kill a human or reptile, but fish are cold blooded just like a reptile.

quit pulling things out your butt and say the one thing all god fearing folk should say, "i don't know". instead of just chalking everything up to god, ya know

and the fish, they'd be much less likely to survive than water dwelling dinosaurs. ever try to put salt water fish into fresh water?

How did they keep the fish aboard the ark? To replenish the now all fresh water oceans?

This is not true because we cannot keep fish from salt water in tanks of fresh water, today. So one has to believe that the type of water makes a difference.

thing is, fish breathe via the water, dinosaurs did not. it shouldn't matter what type of water they're in

You asked a question and I answered to the best of my ability. Appearantly you are offended that I didn't say "I don't know.". Well, I don't know, NOBODY DOES. And that includes Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hichens and Steven J. Gould. I thought you wanted my best guess, since everyone who is asked the question would have to answer "I don't know" if the absolute truth was required.

i just wasn't much impressed with your answer. you seem like a fairly intelligent person and your explanation was lame. i expected better.

< not offended, just let down

thats not true either, what about the:

Coelacanths were medium sized carnivorous fish that evolved in the Devonian period more than 360 million years ago. They were fresh water fish that weighed 50 kg and were up to 1.5 metres long. Coelacanths had two pairs of muscular fins that looked very much like four legs and a thick fleshy tail.

Coelacanths were prevalent during the Triassic period, both in marine and fresh water environments. It was believed this group had become extinct at the end of the Cretaceous period until a living specimen was caught off the coast of South Africa in 1938. Specimens have since been caught off the Indonesian and East African coasts proving that this hardy group still lives today in the depths of the Indian Ocean. The so called "fossil fish" is remarkably similar to its ancient ancestors from the Devonian rocks.

Fresh water and Salt Water mix slowly. In fact, if you make salt water and slowly add fresh water on top of it, the two won't mix at all. Agitation is required for the two to mix. I'm sure there are plenty of Gratuitous Assertions and other fallacies running through your collective heads, so here is a science experiment designed for children that should prove the concept.

http://educ.queensu.ca/~science/main/concept/is/i01/I01DESF2.html

So with the water levels rising, the majority of the fresh water and salt water wouldn't mix immediately. The areas that were covered by the flood would be mostly fresh water. The oceans and seas would be salt water covered by fresh water.

And yes, I have seen a freshwater fish in a saltwater tank. In fact, Xenopus Laevis (an aquatic frog from Africa) and African Ciclids have all been recorded to have lived in salt water quite well. How long they can live there, I don't know, but it is possible. All fresh water fish will survive better in slightly salty water. Freshwater is 1% salt and oceanwater is 3.5% salt. Most freshwater and saltwater fish can survive in large changes of salinity.

Here's a helpful article on the subject.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/fish14.asp

What was lame about it? It reads pretty simply.

Ocean temperatures would drop due to 40 days of rain...any arguments?

Fish handle changes in temperature better than reptiles, but they are both cold blooded...any arugments?

What's the problem? I was answering your question.

no, i cannot argue that enough water from the sky to raise the oceans high enough to burry the land would not change the temp. but there would still be warmer water at the top, life would just migrate there.

SOME fish handle temp changes well, a lot don't.

why did some reptilian sea life die out while others did not?


just saying, it's full of huge holes