What proof? Your opinions? Why does your opinion carry more weight than mine? You guys tried to claim that water couldn't come out of the ground, but it clearly can. What would happen during a global geological disaster? Lava could flood into the aquafers that lay under almost all dry land, causing hot water to spout out of the ground and causing worldwide rain showers. Is that what happened? I don't know, but it could have happened. I can tell you that John Baumgardner, PHD has developed a theory called catastrophic plate tectonics. His theory suggests that the entire mantle could overturn. This belief is supported by the fact that a similar event recently happened on Venus, where the mantle fliped over in a series of catastrophies. Could he be right? Who knows? If he is right, then it clearly puts a young earth and creation back onto the table.

If such an event as catastrophic plate tectonics happened during the flood, life would be relatively protected by the Ark, while the continents moved to their current locations.

What?? That made no sense

uh...but our panet's surface has stayed on the outside...

Yes, it makes sense, but maybe we should agree to disagree? I believe in a plurality of ideas. You are welcome to your beliefs, just as I can have my own. As the saying goes "You can believe in stones as long as you don't throw them at me.". The Big Bang theory is no less silly than any other creation story, especially in light of what we now know about our universe. There will be no shrink and contraction, astronomy has confirmed this. If the universe can't exist forever, then it cannot exist by today's science. The universe will die a heat death. To claim that the Big Bang is scientific is just silly, because it contradicts science. But if that's your beliefs, no skin off my nose.

What if it hasn't? You don't even entertain the idea of what the results of such an event and a global flood would be. It's possible...we know it can happen. It would support the Bible if it was found to be true. What do any of you care if some people want to research that possiblity? I see absolutely no desire for plurality of ideas in so many of you. Christians are targeted for ridicule...who will be next after Christians are gone? Hindus? Muslims? Buddists? Pantheists? Wiccans? Who is next to be eaten by the intellectual elite?

I have no problem agreeing to disagree. I do look for logic and when I do not find it......I don't know what to think sometimes. I do not get angry or feel any of this personally anyway. I just state my thoughts and opinions and go my way. I even do that on the posts I get passionate about. Everyone has a right to agree or not but it is no skin off my nose either way. I know what is right for me and what makes my world more understandable.

i only don't entertain the idea because our fossil records wouldn't be able to be gathered, and the rocks show millions of years..not freshly cooled magma

Before all of God's creation
The Lord had formed me
From the very beginning of time
I was there beside thee
Before the mountains were formed
I was brought forth
While yet there was no land
I was with the Lord
When He created everything
The heavens, the sea and the sky
The earth, and all who live in it
I was His daily delight
Blessed are you that listen
Those that keep my ways
Do not neglect instruction
But receive God's wisdom today

This isn’t even close to being true.

You keep hiding behind the skirt of “Christianity”, but the truth is Spider that 99.9% of “Christians” are not hard-core fundamentalists attempting to insist on a verbatim literal interpretation of the Bible.

The vast majority of “Christians” accept that the Bible is allegorical and intended mainly as parables.

In fact, the truth of the situation today in America is that the vast majority of people who are “Christians” pretty much just focus on Jesus. They believe in what Jesus taught. And mostly they believe in the moral values he taught. The vast majority of them don’t even attend churches and many even denounce the churches the idea of organized religion.

They consider themselves to be “Christians” because of how they LIVE (they follow the teachings of Jesus), not because they believe in a verbatim interpretation of a book.

No one is saying that you shouldn’t be a Christian. Most people are just suggesting that you get past this absurd defensive posture about trying to force the Bible to be literal and start paying more attention to the SPIRIT of what it’s saying. Especially with respect to the teachings of Jesus.

don't you love christians saying they're targets? that's about the funniest thing i've heard in a while

Well, there is the irony of that too.

I have strength for all things
Through Christ who empowers me
I’m ready for anything that comes my way
Even what I may not foresee
For it is Christ who infuses me
Strengthening me in His might
And I am sufficient in His sufficiency
With the power of Christ inside

This is exactly the kind of thing that everyone should be afraid of. You say "insist on a verbatim literal interpretation of the Bible."...but what business is it yours what I believe? How do my beliefs harm you in any way? Why do you believe that you have any say in what I believe? Your own beliefs are bat **** crazy, but that has nothing to do with me. I would never suggest "You have to believe the way I tell you to", but that's exactly what you tell us Christians. Your morals disgust me. You are smart enough and educated enough, but yet you still deny the right to plurality of ideas and insist that your way of believing is the only acceptable way. No matter how offensive you become, I will never deny you your right to believe how you do or tell you that you must change your beliefs to be acceptable by me.

I always had a problem with the notion of 'excommunication' throughout the Catholic Church history.

But since coming across the inimaginable mischaracterizations and 'gratuitous claims' made in the name of christianity from our friend 'spider',
... I wouldn't go as far as saying that I agree with 'excommunication',
... but I can definitely better understand the C. Chruch needing a means of controlling 'destructive lose cannons' from within.

Fundametalists-apologetics-bible litteralists are so far removed from Christianity (Christ-like), there are more Christians than non-Christians whom chase fundamentalists rear-ends.

As I suggested to you ages ago 'spider', let a bit more 'Johnny' spirit shine through, and just put a vey short leash on 'spider'.

Stop doing the Jesus's job (spider). Let Jesus do HIS job through you (Johnny's spirit).

Stop procrastinating, JUST LET GO ... LET GOD !!!(WOW!, I SAID THAT!!!)

We are all quilty of making judgements here. I try to hold my judgements but they sometimes come out anyway.

You are right you have the right to your belief as do all of us. I do not try to "convert" others to my beliefs but to let them see my point of view. I would hope that you are only sharing your point of view even knowing others will not see it sometimes. There is no reverence for god or the bible for some as others do. This is not a personal attack. It is their view of the bible and the christian god.

If I was quilty of judgements, I am willing to apologize for the judgements. I always try to be as non judgemental of people as possible. I only try to judge the information provided as valid to me or not.

Spider you’re so silly.

I’m not doing anything any different from you. Not one iota.

I don’t care what you believe. You are free to believe whatever you like.

But if you are going to come onto a public forum and try to sell your beliefs to the public, then I’ll gladly point out why I believe them to be absurd especially when you denounce the knowledge of my life-long profession. (i.e. science).

You take this personally. But it’s not intended personally. That’s entirely your perception. Not my intent.

I’m simply offering people food for thought of why I think your archaic ideas are absurd. And that is indeed how I view them. From my perspective they are both archaic and absurd. I believe that we have gone beyond these ancient mythological ideas. And so I say so.

You get all peeved because I make so much sense. I’m sorry about that. What can I say?

I’m just responding to posts on a public forum on ideas that I see as absurd. I have no clue who Spidercmb is. I have absolutely nothing personal against you whatsoever. You are more than welcome to your beliefs, as I am to mine. Clearly we can’t agree on the physics. You’re bringing your religious beliefs into the realm of the physical world when you denounce science in favor of a verbatim interpretations of religious writings. I feel that this verbatim interpretation is neither correct, nor necessarily for the spiritual value of the religion itself. If people didn’t argue against Greek Mythology in this way we’d all still be worshiping Zeus.

You state your ideas, I state mine. The only difference between us is that you allow yourself to get emotionally upset about it and I don’t.

That’s the only difference.

Have you no shame 'spider'?

PLURALITY OF IDEAS, AND FAITH, AND BELIEFS, AND CONVICTIONS!!!

Was that your latest 'apologetics class' lesson for the week?
I've noticed it in a few of your threads lately.

How can you even consider pulling this one off?!?!?!

You are unstupid enough to realize this is pure unadulterated 'projection'!!!

Plurality of ideas!!! That would imply that you would be capable of articulating objective positions from at least 2 different points of view.

That the 'apologetics army' has trained you well in the 'art' of SOPHISTRY, doesn't give you MORE points of view.

It simply trains you well in the art of 'disguise'. Disguise of the same point of view in endless number of deceiving costumes, such that you can keep YOU shoving it down the throat of Christians and non-christians alike.

By the way, nothing wrong with only having ONE point of view as you obviously have. But please assume it!!!

Ask for your mentor, or teachers opinions before posting. You are not helping your cause.

Plurality of ideas!!! GET THE MIRROR OUT!!!

I think this sums it up right here Spider.

You come onto a public forum and denounce scientific knowledge as being totally incorrect and without merit. Then you try to make ‘plausibility’ arguments to support your story. I step in and show why your arguments aren’t ‘plausible’.

Your accusations against science makes this “my business”.

Then you scream FOUL????

Oh please.

You should know by now that you aren't allowed to redefine terms when you are debating with me. Plurality of ideas means the belief that many ideas are a good thing. It does NOT mean that you have to accept or believe multiple beliefs. I am a Christian, but I don't have any problem with people of other beliefs. I don't accept their beliefs, I don't beleive the way they do, but I respect their right to believe the way they do. I don't tell Abracadabra how to be a pantheist, because I respect his right to believe the way he chooses. It is a cowardly and shallow position to watch Abra tell Christians how they should believe and worship and then defend him for that behavior. He is doing what so many claim to fear from Christianity.

Once again, you defend your "right" to deny other's their beliefs. You are a facist, pure and simple. If I want to believe that the earth is flat (I don't, it's an example! I know how you love to distort the statements of others), that doesn't hurt you in the least. I have never suggested that ID should be taught in school. I have never suggested that my beliefs should be forced on others. YOU HAVE. In this thread, you have told me and other Christians how we should believe and worship.



Completely laughable. You simply create strawmen arguments and then knock them down and laugh about how easy it was.