I was at an event, group of women and 1 man who was there with his partner.
At some point we were outdoors and about to dance around the Maypole with ribbons. One woman was chosen as May Queen and had to hold up the pole. Now it may not have been very heavy, but holding that up for an extended period of time will make it heavy.
So I suggested something like, “We have a man present. Maybe he can be the May King and help out?”
Then I got some serious knee-jerk reactions, mostly from his partner and another woman, possibly her gal pal but not sure.
Something along the vein of that being old-fashioned etc.
I decided to leave it at that moment. We were celebrating, not the right place to start a discussion and make things awkward.
After that, however, the man's woman only glared at me, hahaha. While I had a friendly totally friendly exchange with him later. I don't think he was bothered by any of it.

It did make me think.
In my country we have progressed quite the bit with the equality thing. We’re not 100% there yet, but then no country is. Not yet.

But to come across these knee-jerk reactions... I felt that was strange.
Thinking about it seems they’re stuck in the phase of ‘I have to prove myself!” while true equality is about NOT having to prove yourself anymore.
When we’re equal it’s about having the freedom to do and choose things that used to be for the other gender only.
Also about getting respect for what you do which is especially important for a woman’s choice as for thousands of years we’ve been taking for granted. There was no acknowledgement, pay-check, respect, status, promotion etc. for being a housewife, mother, partner.
And for a long time we’ve had to fight hard to have the right to do and be the same as our male counterparts. But the peak of that has gone, at least in my country (I’m aware it’s not like that yet in other countries, incl. other first world countries).

So what is true equality about?
No longer having to prove you can do it.
Getting respect for what you choose to do in life.
Having the freedom to do what makes you happy, incl. when it’s something that used to be for the other gender only.
And...
It’s also about acknowledging your own weaknesses! AND being okay with that. Which goes back to nr 1: not having anything to prove anymore. And realise that it's not a weakness.

Generally speaking women aren’t as strong physically as men. Considering what happened last weekend, that part seems to rattle certain people’s cages?
But what is wrong with it? Nothing!
Women and men are created for different purposes. Our female bodies are built to have children, and probably also to be softer and rounder to be more attractive to males which is quite important when it comes to procreation and our species survival.
The difference in our bodies is found in fat and muscle tissues and hormones. All Divinely orchestrated. Our brains produce and/or regulate all that stuff for us.
Conversely, the male body is hard, muscular, not curvy, and to make procreation work women find such males attractive.
@@@ All generally speaking, there are exceptions, I know! @@@

So... if that makes woman in general less physically strong, what’s the big deal? Why have a problem with that?
It doesn’t make us less and certainly not unequal to men.
Men and women aren’t supposed to be the same. We’re supposed to complement one another.

Personally I see more strength in being able to embrace our differences and being able to acknowledge you’re not physically strong enough for a certain task. It’s something that I feel deserves respect, more so than someone trying to do it anyway even when their body lets them know it’s too much.

If you still feel and act as if you have to prove yourself to show you’re equal and as good you’re not equal. Then you’re stuck in the process of getting to true equality and deep down (re)acting from feeling not good enough/less/not equal.
Then you're stagnant, not equal.

Of course it’s quite the process, both individually as in society as we’re up against changing an entire huge collective field concerning this.

Nevertheless, I was surprised to meet such knee-jerk reactions. For the most part because it means people (still) don’t understand what it’s all about, still get their hackles up, and don’t understand the meaning of equality.
And that’s what I in turn don’t understand, them not understanding.

Shouldn't this post be in the feminist column in the Daily Mail?....

I full on believe in equality amongst
the two genders.

But, the May Queen holding up the May Pole,
as tiresome as it must have been for her,
is viewed by many, as a woman's space, and
feel that men have no business encroaching
on women's spaces.

It starts as an equality thing.
But, then comes to survival of natural born
women, who now have to compete with men
who claim to be trans women, in all aspects
of life.

Misogyny? Multiply that by 10,000 times
when it comes to trans women. They aren't
just trying to keep natural born women down.
Their agenda is to replace you.

Keep men out of women's spaces.

I can't wait to see how SparklingCrystal reacts when a biological man goes into a women's bathroom space, she will turn into shattered glass - well said brother!. Have you seen some of the new restrooms in the US airports, they have "any" gender spaces now but they are well closed off not like the open stalls in old-skool general population separations.

'Cept, SparklingCrystal is my friend,
and has been, for a number of years.
So, my post wasn't at all to demean
her thoughts.

And not taken like that either because, yup, we're friends :)

I actually prefer that. In some European countries that I've been to, there are no separate women's or men's restrooms. There are just individual stalls that are completely enclosed from floor to ceiling, and a sink area that's out in the open. In my opinion, that's how all restrooms should be. Bugs my nerves that in a lot of public places, men's restrooms don't have a line, but women's restrooms often have huge lines out the door. Sometimes after a 12-hour flight, people really need to go to the bathroom, man!

(Satire)
The only real issue i have is that the ladies take 10 times longer in the bathroom than men do but with one exception if i have to number two haha then i just own that bathroom. I would be kinda feel guilty if a lady went in after me since they would need to re-wall paper after the Cuban Missile crisis 2.0.

(Serious)
On a serious note though i don't want whatever freak that 2023 has brought into existence around or near kids of opposite gender in the same space, Ironically the old school way was more of an actual "safe space".

Gender equality and tradition


Equality:
Equality here refers to equal opportunities, and the same must be made available by the state. Gender differences that are natural, remain and are in no way inferior to the cause of equality. In most states that are not theocratic, such opportunities are made available in health, education and other state-owned services which now includes the military, too.

Tradition and customs:
Ever since civilization, cultures have developed in different societies. Such cultures (in the form of various celebrations often have their roots in myths and faith. Myths and faith are rarely, if ever, are based on scientific reasoning and logic. Hence gender relations in such customs can be biased. The state is not supposed to have a say in the functioning of these customs, unless the aggrieved appeal to an appropriate court of law and prove beyond reasonable doubt, how the bias has put the aggrieved to a disadvantage.

Equality:
No two individuals can have equal capabilities. Hence equal opportunity should be provided in all fields that are under the direct and indirect supervision of the state.

KEVIN

People seem to be quite confused these days to what equality means.

As men and women we have strengths and weaknesses. That is where we are meant compliment each other in relationships.

But there are somethings that there is a line. That line for me is single sexed spaces. It is quite naive of people to not understand why we have them. We have them for a reason.

It's all very well being liberal, until you face that consequences of that. Rape shelters, Bathrooms, Changing rooms I will never agree on shared spaces. Some of us still value our dignity, some of us still are aware that predators will use any opportunity to abuse
loopholes. In fact many have and always will. When you cloud the line it makes it impossible to define it and in that can put others at risk.

Biology matters, it matters because of physical strength, patterned behaviour. Idealism has never worked, because that idealism it comes across to me that people have forgotten the risk involved. We don't live in an utopia.

So men and women should have equal opportunities, but equal does not mean to compete with each other. But within our biological sex, women competing with actual women, men competing with actual men

So when asking on equality, are you doing it on a basis of consideration of the world you actually live in or are you doing it on the basis of idealism?

It's all ideology.

There's no real reason for feminism anymore. There's not one thing entitled to men, that is not afforded to women. However; as you pointed out, with men stealing opportunities from young female athletes that's been training all their lives - there could be a use for feminism... but the feminists aligned themselves with that ideology that allows for that.

I live in a modern society in a modern community.
Even as society edges towards equality there are still remnants of inequality in this modern society.

As people, we are 'conditioned' to bias. It may or may not be a purpose driven conditioning but the reality is, it still happens.

Putting bias conditioning aside for a second, there are some things which are better suited to females and some that are better suited to males.

In this modern society, people are 'usually' afforded an equal opportunity. However, that isn't necessarily how those opportunities play out in reality.
It doesn't matter if it is gender, race, religious background, political party or financial status, the bias always finds the surface.

To me, equality has everything to do with equal respect as a person. Treat people with dignity and respect until their actions prove otherwise.
Likewise, if you wish to be treated with dignity and respect you should be respectful with a sense of common decency.

If you treat others with dignity and respect, it doesn't guarantee you will be afforded the same from them. People are conditioned by bias and some can't think outside those constraints.

Understanding this allows you to realize just because you are treated unfairly (in one way or another) byy some, doesn't mean everyone will treat you like that.
The trick is to move on and keep trying.

Men competing with other men is normal, part of the masculine. In most cases this is friendly, although it can get pretty fiery. Take for instance a sports match. All very eager and driven to win. Yet, at the end the two teams are always friendly, exchanging shirts, giving man-hugs etc. So fiery & driven, yet, but there's still comradery.
This is normal and healthy for the masculine.

For women, however, competing is far from healthy and not normal as it isn't the normal of the feminine to compete with one another. what isl healthy for us, releases oxytocin, makes us feel at peace, accepted, happy and good, is sisterhood. So being together with other women that have her back, with whom she can laugh, share, talk, cry. women who won't judge or knock her (hence the 'having her back') but are there for her.
That's what's crucial to woman's health.
Unfortunately many women have gotten influenced by the (unbalanced & thus unhealthy) masculine society where we must compete in order to make it. This has become the norm for many of those women and because of that has also become part of normal life and socialising. Competition among women is a result of it.
Personally I hate this competitive chit many come up with. It doesn't feel right, but apart from that it's so pathetic and childish. I never really get it. what's the point?
Reason for me to steer clear from other women because I have no space in my life for that pathetic BS. Only in more spiritual settings & groups can you find a more relaxed and natural dynamic among women. Not always, even then you can feel & notice it, but at least better than in regular places.

If your question was directed at me: for me it's not Utopia, nor idealism. It's what's happening and shifting and changing in the world as we live in it.
The Divine Feminine energy has been coming in more and more, which is all part of the incoming Age of Aquarius. The Age of Pisces is on its way out, which was fully patriarchal.
Nothing Utopia about it. Look at changes that have occurred already between men & women, whether with socialising, dating, in relationships, work etc. etc.
I remember when I was a young teenager it was still normal in the Uk that women weren't allowed in the pub. I remember that as I couldn't believe that, utterly ridiculous! But now that is not the case anymore, hasn't been for a long time.
Might have been a time that people said it'd be Utopia for women to be allowed in the pub, and then it became normal...

what people call Utopia because they can't see something happening is what becomes the new normal 5-10 yrs later. So in that sense "Utopia" is non-existent, or... another word for "the near future".

That is not Utopia.
The opposite of Utopia is Dystopia.

A "Utopian" society is a society which exists in perfect harmony.

A "Dystopian" society is a society which exists in perfect conflict.

Human societies are flexible (dynamic).
There can never be a "Utopia" or a "Dystopia" because One instant of disagreement destroys the Utopia and One instant of agreement destroys the Dystopia.

An illusion. What you see televised does not necessarily reflect personal feelings. Being a 'good loser and gracious winner' are conditioned into us by our society.

Competition is viscous.
Just because society teaches us to be civilized it is human nature to fight to the death.
Just look at history.
Revenge is still very strong in the human psyche.
It gets curbed (stifled) by social conditioning but if you take away the civilized conditioning and allow people to be natural, most will pursue the 'win' at all costs.
Heaven forbid there is ever a global social breakdown or cataclysmic global disaster.

If you cared to 'look'...there are many examples of "win or die mentality" in the world around us.
ESPECIALLY in the dating/mate selection world.

Failure to realize this is delusional. It is an attempt to recreate the world in fantasy. Sooner or later reality will break that fantasy, usually with dire consequences.

Utopia is an imaginary thing/place/situation in which things are in perfect harmony, but it's not realistic and as such imaginary.
That's how it's used too, to describe something that would be wonderful but isn't possible. Often used with a dose of negativity or sarcasm.

The point I was making in my post was based on that.

Not an illusion at all.
I'm talking about the innate natural behaviours and action/reaction, you're basing what you say on extreme and/or distorted situations like global disasters and social breakdowns. why go for extremes? That wasn't the subject at all.
I'm not discussing human behaviour and psychology during times of survival. I'm talking about the natural, innate feminine & masculine. You're ripping things out of context.




I'm out of this topic. No one seems interested in the subject I raised and instead just throws all kinds of different subjects on the table that have nothing to do with it. Almost turning it into a tit for tat.
I've no interest in such childish games.

Crystal , it is the nature of forum discussions that topics can go off track .. and that there will be differing viewpoints . it is a good topic .. let’s get it back on track .

Firstly a definition of equality from the human rights commission …

“Equality is about ensuring that every individual has an equal opportunity to make the most of their lives and talents . “

Furthermore there are three types of equality .. political , social and economic .

In the maypole scenario you described .. even though your attempt to intervene was well meaning .. suggesting the male hold the flagpole instead of the female could be seen as obstructing her right to the opportunity to do so . It may have been something she was proud to do and was happy to give it a go .

Not everyone views men and women in terms of masculine /feminine energy .. if Equality is about opportunity … physical strength is one aspect of many that determines what a person is capable of or aspires to do .

Women are spiritually stronger than men

And that's the problem, not viewing ontological reality of human gender
Masculine and feminine are real things preponderating in male and female respectively

Flattening the genders is a false equality
It denies the preponderance and basically denies reality

Men are physically stronger hence most bricklayers are men
Women are spiritually stronger hence most caring profession jobs

Denying basic reality is not the answer