Now, now, Blondey, there’s no need to get yourself all forestraught over a difference of opinion.
Also, I’m not presuming to overturn a decision to update the DSM (I haven’t seen that alteration for myself yet, by the way, but I believe you - I knew it was just a matter of time). But, as Sparkling mentioned earlier, they aren’t the absolute authority. As a matter of fact, I believe that any time two people have a disagreement about something, neither one of them is the authority, I don’t care how many degrees they may have. One might be an expert and the other a novice, but either one of them could be right.

In any case, whatever the shrinks may want to call it now, I still believe it’s a mental health disorder, because it seems to me that the alternative is to believe that somehow their chromosomes and everything that followed was a mistake. The principle of Occam’s Razor tells me that the simpler explanation is most likely the correct one.

I am not expecting you to agree with my opinion , and it has nothing to do being being right . It has to do with advocacy and reducing harm . .Societal exclusion , especially when directed at young people struggling with identity and acceptance is harmful . The reality is ., it is their life .. their choice .

Occam’s razor ... was used to distinguish between two rival theories with IDENTICAL RESULTS... The simpler of the two theories was said to have less assumptions . I prefer fact based observations and empirical evidence rather than assumptions .

Totally agreeing with this ^^^^, especially the part I made bold.
The way I see it, it's a societal acceptance issue. I don't think that latching on to what we know -like chromosomes- is helpful here, nor can it offer a solution.
It's a phenomenon that has not been brought out in the open so much before, so society needs to label it and slaps "mental disorder" on it.
Lord knows how far back it goes. Homosexuality is known throughout history, as is men dressing as women. Could be that the desire to be of the other gender is simply rooted in mankind for whatever reason, just that in the old days it was impossible to get this done and it could cost your life if you made the desire known.

I think that this will become more accepted in the not too far future, just as homosexuality of both genders is now quite normal. They can now get married and have children, while only some 50-60 years ago they were tortured, electro-shocked and whatnot to 'cure' them.

The most difficult thing I find is the people who do not identify as either man or woman but both. That I find hard to get my head around. But that's my own 'problem', shouldn't be theirs.

Yes, I could see that your concern throughout this conversation is the possibility that people wishing to identify as the opposite gender might be excluded. And frankly, it makes me feel like I’ve been speaking to a wall. I don’t know how many times and ways that I can say that this medical opinion has nothing to do with excluding anybody, or how many ways I can try to demonstrate that a mental disorder is not even something shameful in the first place. I have a mental disorder too. I have what was formerly called Asperger’s Syndrome. I am not ashamed of this, I don’t feel excluded if someone acknowledges it, and I don’t feel attacked if someone tries to offer me help through my weaknesses. The things that we do not choose do not bring shame. Only the things we choose to do are potentially shameful.

I can tell you that one thing people with Asperger’s tend to be really bothered by (which is why I get into these conversations) is inconsistency. So for consistency’s sake, I’ll say this point also one more time and one more way: if we’re going to absurdly claim that there is nothing medically wrong with a person when an imbalance of hormones cause a person to desire to be the other gender, then we should also pretend that people with ASD have no medical issue, even though autism is caused by brain damage from sundry environmental or traumatic sources. In fact, so that no one’s feelings ever get hurt at all, let’s please be consistent and pretend like no one ever has any challenges in life; we’re all just perfect and none of us could ever be less than that. No one has anything wrong; no one does anything wrong; there is no right or wrong. No one ever even disagrees because we’re all exactly the same.

I’m sure that sounds extreme to you now, and you’re probably thinking that I’m immature for saying it. I can live with that. But I say it because that is the extreme to which I see this coddling mindset going in society. It is not a healthy or productive direction.

Just a reminder of the thread intent.

While discussion on the mental state of people choosing a sex-change is interesting the fact is, the thread is intended as a personal choice question.

Personally, I have a problem with liars.
It doesn't matter if its due to a gender issue, pretending to be a cowboy at a bar or dying hair.

As for the choice to do this, I have no issue with it generally.
It only becomes an issue when it directly affects me.

Some may argue the fact being in the wrong body and having the change are steps taken to stop a lie.
If I twist my head just so, I can see how that might be taken as sensible.
Doesn't mean I want that person in my life.
I don't care for sexual deviance in my life.
If I were to get intimate with her and we did have intercourse I would feel like she was a man with homosexual desires. Like having sex with a tranny, er something. I could never let it get that far knowing she was a man in the first place.

I can tolerate people because I acknowledge they are different from me and have the same right as I to be different. It doesn't mean I want to be in an intimate relationship with them.

If the thread intent were about general acceptance of people who have had the change, my answers would be different. As it is, its a personally specific question asking for a specifically personal answer.

There's also an aspect of the sex change itself which may be being ignored.
Its not a surgical procedure alone. There are many steps involved which include drugs and hormones being taken which change the body process. Essentially, you 'force' the body to be something it is not.

Its my belief someone willing to take such extreme steps has the same metal capacity for making the world bend to their will. Someone willing to take aggressive (extreme) steps to change things they do not agree with. How often will that quality be the focus in a relationship?

We could be friends but anything beyond that...it's a No for me~~~

I'd take it as how is this person?

Would we have fun? Are we compatible? Do we have similar interests? I'm able to forget what they were at one time. Those who, say were in prison, or perhaps they worked in the oldest profession, might like another person to forget who they were or what they did. I could apply that old term,"Forgive and forget" pretty easily.

If those who don't want to forget what they chose to do, I'm not so certain I'd like to be associated with them. They might find something to hang on me. I'm not into picky people.

I'm not 100% sure how I would react to be honest.

sometimes lesbians seem to like me

which confuses me to hell.

In reality no one I mean no one crosses a bridge before they get to the bridge.

Let's be adult about ... you don't know .. I don't know. .... for certain. As they say ...love makes us all do stupid stuff.

In reality no one I mean no one crosses a bridge before they get to the bridge.

Let's be adult about ... you don't know .. I don't know. .... for certain. As they say ...love makes us all do stupid stuff.


No. Stupidness makes us do stupid stuff. True love is not an irresistible animating force that makes us incapable of good decisions. It’s nothing like alcohol. True love is not a feeling that we have no control over. That feeling which most people confuse with love... call it euphoria, call it bliss, but let’s try to reserve the word love for what it actually is so that it can stay special. We CAN choose who we love, because love is a choice that we have to make each day. When we choose to love someone we are making them more important to us than ourselves. We are valuing their needs and happiness above our own. And when we do that (especially if love is reciprocated) then the feeling of euphoria/bliss accompanies. That is not to say there are no feelings before the decision to love is made, I just think we need a separate word for it;, but feelings - whatever we call them - are not in control. Emotions are registered in the back of the brain; decisions in the front.

Emotions/feelings are controllable.
It requires healthy self-esteem and personal discipline.

Ever heard of someone becoming numb to something?
That is called emotionally devoid.

Fear response can be over-come.
Fight or flight reactions can be suppressed.
Love/hate can be regulated.

Some people have the emotional control which allows them to possess emotional stability, even in high stress/highly pleasurable circumstances.

Controlling one's feelings is called emotional maturity.
Emotional maturity does not mean a person is emotionally void, it means they express emotions naturally and honestly according to the condition's validity.
Not underwhelmingly or overwhelmingly.

Emotional disciple allows one to maintain rationality while feeling their emotional states.

personally, I'm bisexual. so I enjoy both kinds of genitals. I would have no problem with dating somebody who is transitioning or has already transitioned. my only problem would be that I would be afraid of accidentally offending them because I wouldn't want them to think that I was fetishizing them for being as a trans, while at the same time being fascinated about what they are going through.

Whoops' wotta subject! You've really made us dig deep into our persona! It'd be very tough to answer that one with confidence, coz I've never really faced anything close in real life! Well I'll politely excuse myself from the situation....
(I have no disrespect for a trans. It's absolutely his/her prerogative)

Though I am not comfortable with being in a date with a transgender individual but I will never try to justify my discomfort. It'll just be a personal preference.