Fanta,

I agree with you on a lot
of things, so we'll move
past the statistics.

It's an old issue anyway.

Though I haven't fact checked this,
I heard or read somewhere that
during the Clinton Administration
they were checking IDs, but
George Bush Jr. got rid of
the requirement.

Any observations on this, Fanta?

My idea about IDs isn't the best,
but it's better than building a
fence, which will only keep some
of them out.

We need to enforce the laws
already on the books as well.

What is your idea for a solution
that will be the most effective
and that won't just be a stop-gap
measure that sounds tough
but doesn't do the job?

(Like a border fence)

There are 12 million
already here (maybe more).

How are you going to
deal with these people?

The fbi report originally posted has been proven a fraud and the gao report is a report of 55,322 illegal alien rap sheets from 2005. Neither report is national statistics and is bias and racially motivated to begin with. I cannot say this enough do not buy into the racial propaganda posted. It is based from a race hate site and is meant to manipulate people who do not know better into believing the racist point of view.

That may be, Dragoness,
but I believe it's time to move on.

You aren't going to easily convince
the people who put faith in these
reports, and you'll just continue
an argument that has no end.

I once had a girlfriend who
held an opposite opinion from
what I did on something.

She said: "We agree to disagree"
and that ended the argument right
there.

So I think its clear that the
only thing we can agree on is
to disagree.

I think we should leave statistics
behind and focus instead on solutions to
the illegal immigration issue.

WELL I HAVE BEEN RACKING MY BRAIN TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WOULD BE CHEAPER IF THE ILLEGALS WERE NOT HERE THE COST OF BUILDING HOMES OR BUILDINGS HAS NOT CHANGED WHAT HAS CHANGED IS THE PROFIT IN THE CONTRACTORS POCKET HAS INCREASED CONSIDERING THAT MOST GOODS USED BY US ARE MADE IN THE ORIENT IT IS HARD TO FIND A LABEL ( MADE IN THE USA )SO TO USE THE SAME OLD CRAP THAT THINGS WOULD BE CHEAPER IS A MISNOMER WHAT DOES ANYONE THINK THE PRICE OF BEEF OR MC DONALDS WOULD LOWER THEIR PRICES IT IS WHAT EVER THE MARKET CAN BEAR,THE FARMERS THAT USE THE ILLEGALS ARE GETTING RICHER ALSO.NOW ITS TIME TO MAKE THE PEOPLE WHO HIRE THESE ILLEGALS BE PROSECUTED AND FINED ALONG WITH HAVING TO PAY FOR THE DEPORTATION OF THESE PEOPLE.THE RACE CARD AND HATRED CARD IS SOLELY YOURS AND A SELECTED FEW OPINION IF IT IS THE WAY YOU WISH TO PERSIVE IT SO BE WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO TAKE BACK FROM THE INVASION AND SYMPHTHESERS WHERE WERE THESE PEOPLE WHEN THE LAWS WRER RATIFIED THESE ARE OLD LAWS INSTEAD OF CHANGEING THE LAWS THEY FIGHT FOR AMNESTY,YES IT IS LONG OVER DUE FOR OUR GOVERNMENT TO ENFORCE THESE LAWS AND NOW THAT IT IS BEING DONE OUTRAGE OVER THE OUR GOVD. DOING THEIR JOB.IT IS ABSOLUTELY SICKNINE TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE WILLING JUST TO FURTHER GIVE AWAY OUR COUNTRY,WHAT DO YOU THINK OUR CHILDREN AND OUR CHILDRENS GOING TO DO FOR JOBS AND HOUSEING OUR SCHOOLS ARE FULL AND THE COLLEGES HAVE MADE IT CHEAPER FOR ALIANS TO RECEIVE A COLLEGE DEGREE CHEAPER THEN OUR CHILDREN CAN RECEIVE.THINK ABOUT THE OUTSOURCEING GOING ON FURTHER OUR JOBS ARE LEAVING WE ARE PRISONERS TO ALL THIS CRAP.I AM NOT COLLEGEW EDUCATED AND HAVE WORKED IN THE CONSTRUCTION FIELD MOST OF MY LIFE INSTEAD OF MY WAGES GOING UP THE CONTRACTORS REFUSE TO HIRE U.S. CITIZENS CURRENTLY UNEMPLOYED AND PISSED OFF NOT A HATER OF THE ILLEGALS BUT THESE TRAITORS THAT HIRE THE ILLEGALS.

Ok dean,

Slow down. Take a deep breath.

And turn your Caps Lock key
off please.

All caps is considered
shouting on the Internet.

Cut them off! Make it impossible to get welfare benefits, Jobs, health-care, or housing!

Then they will leave on their own. Simple.....
If they have children here and both parents are illegal, then so are their children. I dont care where they were born!

Of course if the parents leave you would think they would take the children with them, but I would deny citizenship to the anchor-babies!

No sympathy, no bleeding heart here!!!

Yall keep dismissing the FBI report, but look at what Arizona says;

Law enforcement officials and lawmakers such as Pearce also contend that crime follows illegal immigrants across the border. The state prison system spent $77 million last year detaining more than 4,000 illegal immigrants. (you would think a State law-officer and politician would know)

The FBI report mentions this, and the GAO report mentions this same problem in Pheonix, Arizona, and 2 other States. You may believe its all coencidental but I am not that blind. THE REPORT IS ACCURATE AND REAL!!

http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=51473



Ariz passed the prop 200 with 55.6% of the vote. The pop of Ariz is 27% Hispanic. Of the Mexican Americans in the State;

Prop 200 exit polls showed that 47 percent of Hispanics who voted supported the measure.

================================================================
"AND YET WE HAVE BLEEDING HEARTS THAT STILL LOOK FOR ANY WAY POSSIBLE TO REFER TO THOSE OF US THAT WANT THE ILLEGALS GONE AS RACISTS!"

SUPPORT THEM IF YOU WANT, BUT EVEN THEIR OWN PEOPLE SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

================================================================
Rita Montanez, a mother of three who lives in Mesa, Ariz., worries about the effects of illegal immigration on her ability to get health care.

"I'm Mexican-American, and I just believe we are overstretched because of all the immigration," Montanez said. She added that "closing the border" might be the only solution to the problem.



Of the 449,000 new residents added between 2000 and 2003, more than 53 percent were Hispanic. Census figures do not differentiate between legal and illegal residents.

State Sen. Karen Johnson (R) sees a cultural struggle, too. "The culture of the United States is being destroyed," she said. "The illegals don't want to be a part of American culture. They want to bring their Mexican-Hispanic culture here."

As the number of Hispanics living in the state has grown, so has the number of Hispanic state legislators, who now hold 14 of the 90 seats in the Statehouse.

Rodolfo Espino of Arizona State University, who specializes in political behavior and minority politics, said this increased political power may explain some of the current anti-immigration sentiment in Arizona. The white establishment is in danger of losing control, he said.

But the sentiment driving Arizona’s backlash can be found even within the Hispanic community.

Unlike California’s initiative, Arizona's Prop 200 has held up in court. In early August, a federal appeals court rejected a lawsuit aimed at overturning it.

Several measures passed, were signed into law by the governor and went into effect Aug. 12.

Public discontent with the situation has boiled over into state policy, leading voters and lawmakers to pass some of the most hardline anti-illegal immigrant laws in the country.

Federal border officials arrested nearly 500,000 people trying to enter the state between last October and July. In April, the “Minuteman Project,” a self-appointed militia, began patrolling the Arizona-Mexico border. And in mid-August, Gov. Janet Napolitano (D) took the unusual step of declaring a state of emergency. The move frees up government money to boost law enforcement along the border.
===============================================================

Arizona police officers, as well as federal border patrol officers, now can arrest people suspected of smuggling illegal immigrants into the United States. They also cam seize vehicles driven by illegal immigrants that are involved in an accident.

State judges can lengthen a felony sentence if the person convicted has violated federal immigration law, and city and county officials are barred from spending on migrant work centers, which illegal immigrants often use to find employment.

Napolitano vetoed proposals to designate English as the official state language and build a prison in Mexico for illegal immigrants. (Mistake in my opinion)

In 2006, Arizona voters will consider changing the state Constitution to deny bail to illegal immigrants arrested for serious crimes. GOP lawmakers are considering going around Napolitano to revive the English-only proposal and put it on the ballot, too, as well as another initiative that would give local police the power to arrest illegal immigrants.

The measure, which passed with 55.6 percent of the vote despite opposition from both Democratic and Republican leaders, also makes it a crime for public employees to fail to report undocumented immigrants seeking benefits, and requires proof of citizenship to register to vote.

"(Illegal immigrants) can't come to America and get free stuff. It's just wrong. You've got to take their benefits away,” said Rep. Russell Pearce (R), who led the Prop 200 drive.


================================================================
Arizona’s turning point came last November when it became the first state since California in 1994 to adopt a ballot initiative, Proposition 200, that barred social services to illegal immigrants.


You still want to debate it. Im for action, and am working on my States laws!! (Debateing time is over)

Politicians in at least 11 states are pushing ballot initiative proposals similar to Arizona's ban on state services, and anti-illegal immigration measures increasingly are dividing statehouses from North Carolina to California.


Its happening now hiker!!
Hide and watch!!!

AGAIN, I will say, ILLEGALS get no welfare benefits so to cut them off of it means NOTHING!!!!! I worked for the department of human services and did welfare and foodstamps and we gave illegals NOTHING, NADA no health care benefits, no foodstamps, no welfare, NOTHING!!!!!I worked for the government long before this became an issue and we gave them NOTHING THEN!!!!!Some people do not check their information before spouting off and perpetrating the racist propaganda that is untrue and biased to boot. They had to be working to support themselves!!!!!!!

Second of all I will not let go of the racial aspect of perpetrating LIES as a form of manipulation to influence the masses into acting out the evil of the racists.

The initial post is racist propaganda and the gao thing is untrue in the context it was portrayed. The percentages of crimes was based on rap sheets of 55,322 illegals criminals it has nothing to do with a national average or whatever in 2005. There is not a basis for the skewed information unless one is hateful by nature. I will not condone at any level the Nazi style roundups in America. I believe this is the desired result of the racists propaganda.

It was hilarious to me that the legislature here in the state of colorado did what fanta is pouting about now in 2006 I think and I was laughing and crying because for one it was to satisfy the racist bigots we have here and two we already were not giving the aliens NOTHING. So to satisfy the screaming racists they redundantly put a second measure out there for people to vote on......but it was already on the books and so my tax dollars were wasted by racist thugs perpetuating their hatred. And then when I pointed out to the news station that reported no change on the welfare rolls since the institution of the new law that we NEVER did give them any benfits so the whole push and legislation time was a waste of our tax dollars the story died and has not been brought up again. It is those racists full of hate pushing this issue I tell you, and they need to be identified for what they are and put in the catagory of trash talkers as should be.

In Ariz PROP 200 passed with 55.6% of the vote! Here, a similar measure might pass with at least that amount!

In the N States the problem is not as great or urgent as in the South. I believe this is where most of the bleeding heart support for illegal immigration is occurring, and it is blocking the Feds from acting!

Well no more, we are taking our problems into our own hands and putting forth real solutions!

If the Northern States, want to leave their laws as is then fine. Just dont cry when all our illegals, and the costs involved, (Trust me, you have no idea), flock North where the laws still cater to them!

That's the great thing about individual States rights!!!

Doesn't surprise me most racists live in the south. One should discount all information coming from the south until verified to not be racially motivated first.

Well dragoness you are wrong go to any emergency room and see all the the illegals there for colds and simple ailments all pregnaunt wemen are given medical to assist in their pregnauncy and to say i am a racist is pure b-sh-it i have children that are mexican one born here one born in mexico and to say i hate my children is redicilous,you call us racist i call you a traitor,our motives are self peservation of our nation and culture.GO LOU DOBBS GO LOU DOBBS

I can tell you from experience hospitals bill illegals just like any other person and illegals pay their bills at the same ratio that Americans do so that is not a valid point.

AGAIN, I will say, ILLEGALS get no welfare benefits

BULL****!!!!

Pull Your Head Out Of The Sand!!!

As far as the South goes.....Check out the illegal pop of the States!!!

You Are A Bigot! You stereotype all Southerners as those "125 yrs ago," You know nothing about us, esp the history of the Appalachia people!! There were more slaves in the North than there ever were here!

Your base of knowledge is very small!!
Best you just listen, and let the grown-ups take care of this problem!!

Whats up Dean?

I recognize racist propaganda when I see it and this post is racist propaganda. I worked for the government and know the lies that are being told. I am posting truths which is more than you can say. I am sorry you cannot see the hate you perpetrate.

My intelligence level is just fine and I will continue to call racist propaganda for what it is garbage.

I would like to know how you bill someone with false documents and stolen ssi numbers,it is one thing whether the bill payed or not by u.s.citizens and illegals the facts are facts illegals are criminals by nature of being here and prison terms should be enforced and deportation.what so hard to understand that as criminal records they would not have the abulity to procure many jobs.

Prop 200 exit polls showed that 47 percent of Hispanics who voted supported the measure.

RACISTS!!!

Prop 200 exit polls showed that 47 percent of Hispanics who voted supported the measure.

RACISTS!!

Prop 200 exit polls showed that 47 percent of Hispanics who voted supported the measure.

RACISTS!!

Prop 200 exit polls showed that 47 percent of Hispanics who voted supported the measure.

And so the debate with dragoness progresses!
She calls you a racists and therefore it is a fact and the truth!

Surprisingly, they do pay their bills in large numbers regardless to whatever you have been lead to believe and their illegal status is a victimless crime where to the penalty should fit the crime. Penalties in this country for victimless crimes is probabtion or some fines. Again you are buying into racist propaganda leading you to believe this problem is much bigger and more severe than it is. This is the new southern racist lyching you are privy too.

Dont force your mistakes, and vices on the rest of us!!

You are a Bigot!!!
Simple as that!!