And filling our phyisical bodies, spirits and souls could be encoded as part of our unique DNA...?

Work with me here Spider you might be on a breakthrough

So with a soul or spirit that YOU say are not composed of physical matter... then they could be felt or maybe even seen as an "energy" source of matter.....?

yokoke,

Matter is frozen energy. The soul and spirit are not of this universe, they are truly invisible and insubstantial. You cannot see the soul and spirit depart from the body when a person dies. If the soul / spirit were energy as we can understand and measure, then they could be measured and recorded. Since they cannot be measured or recorded, they either don't exist or are not composed of a substance that we can understand.

If the soul was anywhere I would believe that its in the brain. Ever hear that saying that eyes are the gateway to the soul? Would make even more sense if the soul was in the brain. Not to mention your conscious..

Matter and energy are interchangeable... and just as light has particular frequencies, so does matter. Last check, frequencies can be measured therefore why not a soul/spirit be measured or tested??? We now know that our bodies are composed of energy at the cellular level. Spirits and soul are examples of the electromagnetic spectrum, which have different properties depending on the frequency of their being.

How can one explain a patient that is in a coma on life support, yet tests show measurements in brainwaves... could it not be the soul not willing to give up the host yet? Maybe the brain is just the soul's connection to the physical world? When your brain dies, your soul dies with it.

My spirit is of this universe and very much substantial.

Jeshua Ben Joseph, the Hebrew name for Jesus who was a prototype of God embodied in a human life. He lived to bring spirit and matter together in consciousness. Jesus was a human being fully interpenetrated with Spirit. The spirit of God, the Source from where it all came. The joining of Spirit and matter is available by request and it allows an unlimited source of healing energy and emotional support. Our own beliefs are all that keeps us from this interpenetration. You must want to have spirit and matter joined within you to grow into something more.

I recommend reading The Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard. You might find it interesting....

I agree Chazster the eyes are the windows... it is what goes on in the room behind them that is important.....

"Spirits and soul are examples of the electromagnetic spectrum, which have different properties depending on the frequency of their being."

We have no evidence of that. There has been quite a bit of research trying to prove something along that lines and we can't prove the existence of the spirit or soul. The studies of Reiki and other forms of human energy manipulation have been negative. From what I can tell, the soul/spirit are contained within the body, are anchored to the body and cannot be seen or detected by any technology that we have.

>we can't prove the existence of the spirit or soul

Yet they exist. That is to say what is not seen does not exist. I don't see God, but I know he exist.

Albert Einstein showed that mass itself is a form of potential energy.

>The studies of Reiki and other forms of human energy manipulation have been negative

Yet going with an aura they are energy and exist in the same space and can now be photographed.

We have a neurological system that carries the beliefs, characteristics and coding of our ancestors, therefore you must approach this at a cellular level. People have no real experience of what God is, but act on what God is in their belief system. If you touch people’s belief systems, you have touched their God. For each of us He is different, yet the same.

Jesus shed his entire ancestry of His bloodline, so that He could manifest the light of the Christ. ((God’s DNA!)) He was, and is, the Son of God. We can only say that by faith spiritually, by going within. Jesus didn’t have to go within to say it though. Maybe those lost 18 years he was able to find the way and answers that we seek?

“YOU are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.” Eph 2:10.
(DNA???)

Getting back into genetics, not one of us was there in the beginning to know 100%. We can only offer assumptions and our beliefs of what is.... versus the science. And that science is still uncovering answers for many. There are several theories into the school of thoughts of the how, here are some facts:

- All humans are descended from a single individual who lived about 270,000 years ago.

- Humans and New World monkeys share an ancestor which lived about 7 million years ago.

- Humans and mice share a common ancestor which lived about 50 million years ago.

- All life on earth is thought to be descended from an original primordial single cell organism which lived about 3.5 billion years ago.

- The Earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago but was probably incompatible with life until perhaps 3.8 billion years ago so life apparently appeared relatively quickly.


Thank You for allowing me to share some of my insights and beliefs and personal knowledge into this area and for stepping outside your own comfort zone to maybe think that there are other possibilities shows an inkling of hope... and remember the 2 most powerful words in the universe.... "I AM" I have always said they can be negative or positive, but in this instance, I AM expresses the will and purpose of God to dwell in us, our species, and in doing so, for us to reflect his image and likeness, even as it is in Jesus Christ. Because of this, Jesus was able to say, “I am the way.”

Eljay wrote:
“I have to agree with Abra - if they find Jesus' body to get the DNA, then there is no God.”

Kat wrote:
“They will not find the body of Jesus. To do so would so cause chaos, and mass hysteria. That would mean no God. No crucifiction, ressurection, hope as I know it would change.”

Eljay and Kat,

I respect you both very much. Both of you have displayed extreme wisdom and depth of thought, and even great patience and understanding toward me and my views.

You have both displayed the same sentiments just now – “That if Jesus wasn’t God then that would be there is no God”

In all honesty, I find this sentiment both confusing and a bit disturbing. I mean, the idea of whether or not there can be a God rests entirely on a story about a man who lived 2000 years ago and whether or not that man was indeed God.

I guess, this might actually come down to how we become involved with Christianity in the first place? And I’m speaking here as a former Christian, because I was indeed born and raised as such. And perhaps because I was born into the religion this might have made a difference in how I viewed God. And because of this I’d like to share my story with you,…

At an extremely young age. Far too young to understand the detailed concepts of religion I had a ‘spiritual’ experience. I put the word ‘spiritual’ in quotes because I’m simply using the word to mean a ‘non-physical’ experience.

In any case, It happened on a bright sunny day on a hill behind my parents house. I was doing what little children do. I was just looking out over the cliff at the neighborhood where I live and I was clapping my hands together, first in front of me, and then swinging my arms behind me and clapping my hands together behind my back. I wasn’t really ‘thinking’ about anything in particular. In fact, I was basically concentrating on ‘clapping’ my hands together as perfectly as I could. I wasn’t clapping them hard to make a sound, instead I was focusing on feeling them meet each other, and I was concentrating on having them come together as perfectly as possible (i.e. every single finger being lined up and meeting perfectly)

I think this ‘mindless’ act was a form of meditation. My concentration was solely on feeling my hands meeting each other. However, at the same, time I was also aware of my surrounding. I could see the neighborhood below and the blue sky above and the white puffy clouds just floating in the sky.

Then, all of sudden, I had the experience. It was like an out-of-body experience. I was floating above my body. I could see my arms swinging back and forth and my hands meeting both in front of me and behind me! A view that would be physically impossible in reality. Yet at the same time I could ‘feel’ my body and my hands clapping together. It was like I was simultaneously out of my body and in it at the same time.

The sensation of being confined to a body was gone. There was no place where I left off any the universe began. The entire neighborhood below, the mountains off in the distance, the clouds drifting in the sky, and indeed the sky itself were me. I was them. It was a sensation that can only be experienced, I don’t know how else to describe it other than to say that it was a very profound sensation that everything was my body. That the only way I can describe it. It was an awesome feeling, and I’ll never forget it ever.

Moreover, there was another profound feeling that accompanied it, and this is extremely hard to put into words. I can only describe it as a feeling of the presence of ‘god’ and again I use quotes because the feeling is indescribable and words can be misleading. I think maybe a better way to describe it would be to say that I felt the ‘presence’ of an infinite consciousness. A consciousness that not only knows everything but is everything. The mind of God? And it wasn’t like it was simply ‘nearby’ but rather it was like I had melded together to become one with it. The peace and knowledge that washed over me at that moment was complete and whole. Indescribable, is the only word that does it justice.

So what does this have to do with Jesus Christ?

Well, this happened to me long before I was old enough to genuinely understand religion or the concept of who Jesus was supposed to be. Yet I had experienced “god”. I had experienced the true spiritual nature (non-physical) nature of the universe. I had experienced it’s wholeness. So even before I had ever learned about the concept of ‘god’ I had experienced ‘god’.

Now, as I grew up in my Christian family I attended church and Bible studies. I learned about the stories of the Old Testament, and finally about the story of Jesus as having been sent by God. So I guess from my own life’s experience the story of Jesus was always “secondary” to my idea of ‘god’. In other words, God was very real for me before I ever heard about Jesus. So in a very real sense my belief in god was never dependant on a belief in Jesus.

As I grew to become a man and began to wrestle with the stories in the Bible I finally came to the conclusion that the Bible is not an accurate picture of God, and I could see the motivations of why men would have written it. I was able to reject the “book” without rejecting “god”. After all, I had met god before I read any books. For me god was very real, and the book was just a book.

So when I hear people say that if Jesus wasn’t God then there is not God, it really blows my mind. What has changed? The universe is still here! We’re still here! Everything that God every created is still here!

I mean, if you believe in God why should that belief be depending on single specific folklore? When people say, “If Jesus wasn’t God then there is no God”, all they are really saying to me is, “If this folklore isn’t true then there must not be a God”.

But why should that be the case?

What is it that you place your faith in? God? Or folklore?

I place my faith in God, and if any folklore turns out to be untrue that won’t have any affect on my belief in God whatsoever. God is this universe, and the only way I could ever stop believing in God is if the universe were to suddenly disappear.

God is what god is.

Jax wrote:
“James I forgot that part "

How could you forget that part?

That was like the whole POINT to it!

You silly girl.

Auras are created by watervapor and electricity.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1095552.htm
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So what does Kirlian photography really show? Is it the human "bioplasma energy field" or our "life energy"? Nope, it's plain old water.

The high-voltage high-frequency electricity has enough energy to rip the electrons off atoms. So the air around the object becomes ionized, and if the air contains any water, you get this lovely glow. The scientists call this glow a "corona plasma discharge" - but you can also think of it as "slow lightning". Luckily for the photographers, people in an excited state sweat more. The sweat turns into water vapour, which carries the high-voltage high-frequency electricity more easily through the air.

At least 22 factors influence the final image. These include the force and angle with which your hand is held against the metal touch plate, the atmospheric pressure, the voltage pulse rate and, of course, humidity. Indeed, Kirlian photographs of the same person, taken only minutes apart are so different (thanks to changes in water vapour levels) that they look like they came from different people. In fact, the Kirlian image disappears in a vacuum (where there's no water vapour) - but if it were due to a fundamental paranormal energy field, it should survive.

Some of the fair-ground Kirlian operators have taken the process one stage further. They get your image via a digital camera, and then add the pretty colours around your body's outline from an image manipulation program on a computer - and don't even do high-voltage, high-frequency electricity thingie. It's just the modern electronic version of sticking your face in a cardboard cutout of a famous person, and being photographed as that person.

In other words, Kirlian Photography is just a charlatan's magic trick. It uses fancy pseudo-scientific apparatus to trick people into believing that the operator has some kind of scientific credibility - and it is this, that helps transfer money into the operator's wallet.
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Those missing 18 years of Jesus' life were probably filled with lots of eatting, working a sleeping. Jesus was a carpenter in life. To truely experiance the human condition, wouldn't you say that a life of labor would be required? That is supported by what God said to Adam after the fall in Genesis 3: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread" Since Jesus was never married, He lived a perfect single man's life of friends, family, religion and work.

DNA is a biological thing. That is just and only part of the physical living beings.
God is not a physical living being, He is a spiritual living being.
Therefore, we can't find God's DNA on us.

Yokoke wrote:
"Maybe those lost 18 years he was able to find the way and answers that we seek?"

It's been suggested that during those lost years Jesus traveled to the Far East and became enlightened by Zen Buddhist monks.

Then when he returned to his home land he tried to preach what he had learned. This makes a lot of sense to me personally. Almost everything that Jesus taught is in complete agreement with the 12 karma laws and other Eastern philosophies. The Golden Rule is the basis of being one with nature. Treat everyone as you would have them treat you.

This also falls in line with Jesus saying things like he and the father are “one”. This would be a perfectly natural thing for someone to say who has a pantheistic view of our true nature. In 18 years Jesus could have easily become a Zen Buddhist monk.

However, when he returned to his homeland he couldn’t just start selling Buddhism or Taoism or anything along those lines. He would have had to work within the confines of how his culture were brought up to view God. No one would even listen to him at all had he tried to present them with something drastically different from what they were used to believing. So he probably went along with their views, trying to combine the two religious views.

Perhaps he was trying to use more Ethos than Logos or Pathos. So he was trying to respect how the people believed and yet at the same time trying to enlighten them to the way of the Tao, and how to get along with each other. Because remember, before Jesus there was nothing in their religion about turning the other cheek or loving their neighbor or any of that. The old testament was much more along the lines of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Jesus may have said that he did not come to change the law, but if you think about it that was actually a big fat lie.

I know that for many Christians this may seem extremely far-fetched, even insulting to what they believe. But as far as I’m concerned, it’s a very plausible.

sure our DNA is God's - but so are viruses and rodentses

i gotta love Aristotle, and his silogisms.

Thanks Spider for the link for us all... did you even read the first paragraph?? LOL

It states:
"Well, in the Land of New Age, every living creature (carrot, human or mosquito) supposedly has an aura that reflects the supernatural "energy field" that, we are told, permeates all life. After all, don't depictions of Jesus Christ and various saints show a spiritual "halo" surrounding the head?"

Pretty interesting when you think back to art history and documentaries & seeing halos painted on not only Jesus, but many other figures of time had halos... but maybe that too was just a charlatan's magic trick in making us think that was a halo LOL Nope...... Facts are facts. What is....is.

>Auras are created by watervapor and electricity.

YES SPIDER!!! Give that boy a prize LOL
Watervapor...hmmmm considering the body is 2/3's water and the brain is 85% water....and guess what?? I won't go into specifics, but the brain is filled with neurons which are basic building blocks of the nervous system. A neuron can transmit an electrical impulse to the next neuron, therefore electrical impulses in the body..... so watervapor, electricity and bingo you have a human body capable of being an aura and emitting an aura. Kind of like sweating colors....

>Since Jesus was never married, He lived a perfect single man's life of friends, family, religion and work.

Again words spoken from a belief system handed down in the Bible and not facts because we can't go back in time to actually see what took place only transcribes of the history to be passed down...God forbid they messed up a scroll here and there huh? What if there are parts of the Bible left out...intentionally? What if the Vatican holds truths from the world? How would our worlds be had the BIBLE been written in a manner where the stories of Jesus's offspring were layed out before us...well it just would not work now would it??? What if's? What if's? What if's???

A "perfect" single man's life that consist of friends, family, religion and work. ((again no facts to base this hypothetical poopah on, but I'll work with what material I have...)) Spider is this Jesus's life in those 18 years??? Or yours??? I don't want to touch a nerve and not sure how many men will see this as the perfect single man's life... but Man also needs, laughter, food, quiet meditative time and most importantly.... Love. Love is one of the fundamental aspects of man's existence.

I am not trying to pick on you Spider, we all have our own opinions, mine doesn't make it right, nor does yours, but maybe try to stay open for a healthy open discussion rather than shut one down, end of story. We all can offer flipflopping arguments all day long and where does it get us? The same place, different day... where is the grace and love in that?

I was raised a Christian and am one. However, I also have a child with a very "rare" genetic karotype, which in some respects could be seen as a mutant display compared to what the medical community has listed as "normal DNA sequencing", but I see it as a Blessing. While the DNA qualifies this child in certain categories of pre-conceived notions of medical doctors, it has been prayer and alternative therapies which has placed this child in a position that the geneticist can't explain the why's or how's...only that it is. So I see the science in religion and religion in the science because for ME, they are one and the same as hard is that is to even fathom.... until you experience something so profound (in my case a baby) and take a step back and realize what we have here right now is so small in what lies ahead.

And to not be open to the Universe and observe the Laws and Grace that govern her, mundane events will continue daily while the life that you seek slips by because the thoughts we have "good or bad" today... make our tomorrows.

While we all may stumble and fall on our own paths of love, grace and enlightenment, is like learning to walk as a baby, you get back up and take a step forward and keep moving...

yokoke,

"What if" is not a valid argument. Marriage records exist from those days. We know that a Joseph married a Mary who had a father named Heli at around the same time that Joseph and Mary were married and that Mary's father's name was Heli. Jesus wasn't married, none of the gospels from those times contradict that statement. If you get into the Gnostic gospels (where they suggest that Jesus was married or dating), they were written hundreds of years after Jesus died by preexisting cults that wanted to adopt Jesus as their prophet, whereas the New Testament was written within 100 years of Jesus' crucifixion by people who had met Jesus and/or the apostles.

==============================================================
Spider is this Jesus's life in those 18 years??? Or yours??? ... "Love is one of the fundamental aspects of man's existence"
==============================================================

According to the Bible, a single man shouldn't have sex. In those days, there was no dating. You got engaged and then you were married. Since Jesus wasn't married, he wouldn't have been involved with a woman in any way. But as far as love, Jesus loved God. Jesus loved sinners. Jesus knew love. Jesus didn't have a special love for a woman, but that doesn't mean that Jesus didn't experiance love.

Yokoke,

==============================================================
Pretty interesting when you think back to art history and documentaries & seeing halos painted on not only Jesus, but many other figures of time had halos...
==============================================================

The halo is a non-Christian invention. You will see that it has nothing to do with human auras, it was an attempt mimic the visible aurora that circles the sun.

http://www.trivia-library.com/a/what-was-the-origin-of-the-halo.htm

I feel that you have a particular conclusion (that human souls and spirits are composed of convential energy) and you seek evidence to support that conclusion.

LOL I'm sorry....at what point were we ever arguing??? That is your perception and opinion based on 2 words?? LOL Have you not heard the phrase the "what if's?" I was referring to there are too many 'what if's' that can be asked that the BIBLE does not answer. Again it goes to a belief system and in some quite ingrained to a point of non-growth in learning.

I am merely stating my opinion to the "topic" at hand along with scientific facts of DNA as it effects my life personally. I have gone to great lengths to know everything about DNA and brain issues as these effect my child's medical needs and as an advocate to a system that waits to make a statistical record of her. I am not one to sit in a corner and wait... I am very proactive.

While I have gone off topic in my posts, bottom line is that with the Genome Project there is much we don't know about genetics yet. But to be closed minded and not wonder once...not one time in your lifetime.... where the originating DNA strand protein began? That conumdrum baffles me.

I guess that is a matter of being on one's comfort zone.

This topic will fan the flames of those standing firmly on one side of christianity and those whose views are more open to seeing and exploring more. My grandmother always told me there are 3 sides to every story, their side, your side and the Truth. We may not see the Truth in our lifetimes, then again if you go by the Mayan calendar we got 5 years.... but that's a thread starter for the Nephilim

I would rather teach my children 'how' to think rather than 'what' to think...

yokoke,

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"LOL I'm sorry....at what point were we ever arguing???"
============================================================

I meant "arguement" as in logical argument, not a disagreement.

An argument is a statement (premise) or group of statements (premises) offered in support of another statement (conclusion).

============================================================
But to be closed minded and not wonder once...not one time in your lifetime.... where the originating DNA strand protein began?
============================================================

Your assumption here is that if I disagree with you, I must not have thought about the issue. Perhaps I have thought about the issue before you posted and come to a conclusion with which you disagree? Have I not listened to your every argument and offered arguments in response where I disagree? I thought we were having a civil discussion, I'm not sure why you felt the need to suggest that I am closed minded and indoctrinating my children.

Wow Spider interesting thread considering what you write in this thread goes against some other views in others. Guess I am trying to piece it all together. You are only a christian a year, you like science, yet it has no place in the BIBLE, you don't believe the Earth should be carbon dated at millions of years old and then the nerve to attack this gal who is merely stating her opinions as you are, as I am...

I don't see her last statement:
I would rather teach my children 'how' to think rather than 'what' to think...

blasted to you, but just an ending as we all sometimes leave thoughts to ponder.

On another thread you said:
The Bible might appear to have gaps, but I don't believe we should try to fill those in. Anything we place into the gaps we perceive, will be guesses. We would then base those guesses on modern science. The Bible teaches that Adam and Eve brought death into the world, if all life had already been wiped out at some previous time, then the Bible isn't true.

She does have a good point for this topic you can stand on either side of the fence or linger on top in a balancing act. I am a Man of Faith and Spirituality and Christianity on top of that. We can't discount science. It is all around us. Science touches our lives on a daily basis. DNA, stem cell research, cancers, healings, the power of prayer...

On this website http://www.tungate.com/LDS_scientist.htm
It talks about fission track dating and says the planet is millions of years old. Also talks about DNA of dinosaurs too.

This is to show that science is all around us daily. On the topic well I am on the fence liable to get racked up most likely, but have had kin touched by cancer and they say it is genetic, in that DNA we all have. So if it goes back to one source we are all most likely related which tells me you can't choose your family, but you can choose your friends.

And Spider... man to man... is this is a reverse tactic in approaching women on a more serious level, I am so out of touch HAHA Not so out of touch to know you came down on her really hard on purpose and that, my friend, Dad frowns upon.... you showed no compassion.... so two thoughts.... you really like this intelligent gal or you hate women....

No hurry.... HAHA give you time to ponder your thoughts...

I'll be in some other threads reading

LaughingJesus,

I see absolutely no attack in Spider's posts here (no comment on Spider's posts elsewhere.). I see merely direct and matter of fact discussion on his end.