If Jesus had DNA, I think it was not copied from Mary. It would have been created ex nihilo, exactly like Adam's DNA was created. Remember, Jesus is called the "Second Adam" and also remember that Mary wouldn't have had a "Y" chromosome. So to begin with, God would have been forced to manipulate the DNA on a chromosomal level. It just makes more sense that the Holy Spirit created Jesus ex nihilo, rather than using Mary as a starting point. Mary was a convenient womb and a good mother, I don't think her DNA was necessary.

Spider,

Does that mean you believe there is at least one (Adam's), possibly two (also Jesus') Divinely Inspired Genomes?

The implications....!

Per Genesis 1 & 2, Adam was made from mud, meaning his DNA was designed by God. I feel that Jesus would have been created the same way, because he came to fix the mistake which was made by Adam.

previous post

Thu 11/01/07 10:01 AM
adj4u;

I'm not following your reference - what "statement" are you refering to?

----------------------

all of the claims made without posted were it came from with a copy of some of the text

adj4u;

Um... I think I understand. I was refering to what the bible says about Jesus, and what He said about himself (also in the bible) I assumed you were also referencing the same thing. I mean, the Jesus was taslking about is the one from the bible, isn't it?

well post the scriptures of which you are reffering to

is that asking to much

i would lik to read them for myself

thank you

then if we are made from mud and thus were created by magic ,where was DNA created if not from God?

cutelildevilsmom,

If you are going to use the Bible to say "then if we are made from mud ", then you should use the Bible for the answer on if God has DNA. Jesus taught that God is spirit. Do you think it's logical for a spirit to have DNA? Isn't DNA a part of biological life? Jesus also taught that angels (creatures of spirit) don't marry or reproduce). It is logical that Jesus had DNA while he lived, but the Father who is pure spirit, doesn't reproduce, doesn't eat and doesn't need anything outside of Himself to exist? I don't see how that can be logically supported.

I am sorry Spider, but you are telling Cutelildevilsmom she HAS to use the BIBLE for the answer on if God has DNA???

WTF???
Some of you in here I would love to just "biotch slap" LOL and I mean that in the most loving context

John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Jesus said: I and my Father are one. John 10:30

****************************
Okay this is undisputable.... It is amazing how many look away from true scientific facts.....

-Dr. Donald Johanson, the anthropologist who discovered "Lucy", a 3 million year old skelton remains in 1974.

-In December 2000, Martin Pickford and Brigitte Senut of the prestigious College de France announced their discovery of 13 hominid bones, found within a volcanic layer that had been previously -- and reliably -- dated at six million years old.

Mitochondrial Eve, Ancient Human
Born: 200000 B.C.
Birthplace: Africa
Died: c. 200,000 B.C.
Best Known As: Possibly the genetic 'mother' of all modern humans
*all humans share her DNA

So.....? Any thoughts?


Okay here is something to munch on: If God has no body and is in spirit form.... how do we know HE is HE and not a SHE???
Let's call GOD "It" as it may be better in accuracy, but it's not respectful, implying some being less than human as opposed to the truth of a being that is so much more.

AND...

In Christianity, God is a Trinity. This means that God is three persons, not three gods. So technically, the doctrine of the Trinity states that in the one God is the person of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each is not the same person as the other; yet there are not three gods but one. This is similar in analogy to the nature of time. Time is past, present, and future. The past is not the same as the present, which is not the same as the future. But, there are not three times. There is only one thing called time. With that being said then because of the Trinity, God can become flesh in the form of the Son, and still exist in such a way so that He can run the universe. Therefore, the Son can communicate to us on our level. Or should I call him It? Or She?

AND

Angels?..... what about this juicy tidbit overlooked....

A mound near Toledo, Ohio, held 20 skeletons, seated and facing east with jaws and teeth "twice as large as those of present day people," and besides each was a large bowl with "curiously wrought hieroglyphic figures." (Chicago Record, Oct. 24, 1895; cited by Ron G. Dobbins, NEARA Journal, v13, fall 1978).

Some state these were angels of God....

AND ( and no... I won't consider decaf LOL )


Sometimes we need to think outside the box. And think for ourselves. Have you ever bought anything electronic or a toy, appliance and they come with this great big huge manual and instruction booklet? How many toss them aside or file them away because you know how to use it...? Well what about the BIBLE....? BIBLE= Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth
A reference manual to help us figure out things when we don't work the right way? Or a reference manual as guidance?

As I said previous this topic while is excellent... this can be argued phyisical DNA, spiritual DNA... God is Jesus, Jesus is God, God is not a man, Mary, Eve.... we all have our thoughts, our beliefs and shocking enough.... there is no right or wrong answers here....

We all our going to have to do what we as individuals must do, think for ourselves and where we want our paths to lead....

My path is one Blessed with a child with what is considered abnormal DNA, but would not change or wish for anything different... God does work in mysterious ways....

He is probably watching this thread...snickering...


God and DNA made easy (warning graphic)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXfIop5ZOsY

Hilarious Video on Creationism
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7520848619246996399

No because God doesn't even exist. I agree with Darwin.

you agree with darwin manami?
do you even know what darwin suggested? before this whole theroy of evolution got blown out of proportion and elevated from theory to est. fact based on speculative infomation?

Where are the missing links?

Did you know years ago it was believed by the same 'experts' of today that your tonsils and apendix were vestigial organs meaning: hey are left-overs from when you evolved from a monkey?
there were over 150 'vestigial organs' in the body and ALL of the have been found to have a function purpose.

My idiot lecturer tried to tell me that wisdom teeth are an example of this vestigial factor since not everyone has them.
so I asked him
"So are wisdom teeth vestigial?"
him: "....umm...uh...what does vestigial mean?"
(O_O)

Manami, darwins theory was that we started off simple and go t more complex over time, this is simply not true as micro biologists are getting more technologically advance and can look closer and closer at micro organisms and they are seeing huge complexity's of these little life forms.

Fact is evolution CANNOT be proven, because of this:
Monkeys -- ???? (missing link)-- Us
So, they need to find this missing link 1st, which hasnt been done. (O_O)
Even if they DO find a specimen the scenario changes:
Monkeys -- undiscovered Missinglink A -- Dicovered missling link -- undiscovered missing link B -- US.

This will have to go ON and ON until there is unrefutable evidence that we or ANYTHING came from a different form whether it be chickens from T-Rex's or whatever.

Theory of evolution is forever a theory.

and to talk of 'experts', it was taught for almost 500 years that the body constantly reproduces blood instead of a circulatory system. This was in the 1300's if I remember correctly.

We laugh at the stupidity now like we laugh at the people that believed in Zeus and the rest of the gang. 150 years from now this laughter will repeat.

As long as this world lasts that long, which I dont.

human pig duck snake tuna yeast
13 66

human and pig have 13 differences

human and yeast have 66 differences in gene

Huge rocks have creatures with simpler structures in lower layers than higher layers.

I have more proofs.

it CAN be proven.

We have to research more, but more time goes by, more information were found. It IS true.

Yokoke;

You wrote:

"Mitochondrial Eve, Ancient Human
Born: 200000 B.C.
Birthplace: Africa
Died: c. 200,000 B.C.
Best Known As: Possibly the genetic 'mother' of all modern humans
*all humans share her DNA

So.....? Any thoughts?"

Yes - I have one. With a couple of questions. Since you've quoted the bible - I'm sure you're familiar with Genesis, and that we can trace the lineage from the account back to Adam and Eve, Approximately 6 or 7 thousand years ago. So for the sake of the discussion - a day being like a thousand years to God - lets back up creation another 7 thousand years. So - since it was the sin of Adam and Eve that brought death into the world - how is it someone who lived over 150,000 years before them - died?

Also - I believe the only thing that was proved about the 3,000,000 year old Lucy, was that it was a hoax.

And finally, how "reliable" is any data dating anything previous to the flood?

As to the question of God's gender, didn't Jesus call him "Father"?

So, I'm not quite sure where your post was heading - but from what I understand of the bible, it brings these questions to mind. Though I can clearly see your point about the OP, and the idea that God has DNA. There just isn't a right or wrong answer. There are logical streams of thought - but then again:

Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways" declares the Lord....

and on down through verse 11. It's one thing to have personal beliefs and thoughts, but when they are of God, it doesn't seem wise to be in contradiction to what his scripture says, and think oneself right. Not an indictment mind you, as I don't see your obsevations running amok of scripture, but some of the entries on this thread have gotten a tad cariried away.

Manami wrote:

"I have more proofs."

What proofs?

>With a couple of questions. Since you've quoted the bible - I'm sure you're familiar with Genesis, and that we can trace the lineage from the account back to Adam and Eve, Approximately 6 or 7 thousand years ago. So for the sake of the discussion - a day being like a thousand years to God - lets back up creation another 7 thousand years. So - since it was the sin of Adam and Eve that brought death into the world - how is it someone who lived over 150,000 years before them - died?

What if the Bible's Adam & Eve were much older than described?

Where is the PROOF that we can trace our lineage back to Adam & Eve? Actual data...Eljay... Couple of primary reasons we can't trace our genealogy to Adam and Eve is first, there's not a single documented line to Jesus Christ, on whose lineage reported in the Bible we depend for a link to Adam. Secondly, the Bible's genealogies aren't documented and the two given for Jesus don't even agree with each other.

If we try to compare the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew with his genealogy in Luke, we find them identical for the 14 generations from Abraham to King David; then they fall to pieces. Matthew reports 25 generations from King David to Joseph, stepfather of Jesus of Nazareth. Luke reports 42 generations. Worse, the names that exist on both don't even match. So?????

Science is science Eljay, it is okay to not understand it all. Do I still believe in God? I believe 100% there is one that made it all happen yes... I think the time lines are off... We humans have documented proof of our DNA having a protein linked to that of ocean water.... DNA evolves as does our understanding of it all... I think as time goes, and we are open to understanding more, the truths and light will be seen.

Do you think God is gonna just hand it over and say you are in? No this is where we open ourselves up to underestanding life and our place and where God or something more spiritual evoves within us. That "aha" moment.... and you see the full picture.

>Also - I believe the only thing that was proved about the 3,000,000 year old Lucy, was that it was a hoax.

~And that is your opinion, however documented studies, digs and thousands of scientists prove it to not be as such....

>And finally, how "reliable" is any data dating anything previous to the flood?

Yeah YOU are right, how can dispute carbon dating and argon-argon dating for example.... Silly me

>As to the question of God's gender, didn't Jesus call him "Father"?

Well maybe God has chosen to reveal Himself in the Bible as having a male personage.in Genesis chapter 1 we are told that man (mankind; as opposed to "a man") is created in the image of God, both male and female... And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. (Genesis 1:27) Therefore, we should not be surprised if God has both a "maleness" and "femaleness" to Him, so both men and women can relate to God, right?



I am not saying there is a right or wrong Eljay... And just because I don't spout out scripture left and right to defend my thoughts and ideas doesn't make it wrong or right.... I like to think the Big Guy gave me a mind to use and I like to implement the talents and gifts He has given me...

I still say my prayers at night, I still wake and say prayers for the day and am grateful for what I have been given. I know my path though I still stumble and fall, I get back up and follow Him.... I just don't need the backing of church doctrines nor the Bible 100%(even though I do read it everyday, there are other books I read too because I refuse to let the gray matter go to mush) God knows what is in my heart and that my friend is all that matters....

smile

i am beginning to think yokokeread some of my posts about evolution

at some point

insert thumbs up emoticon here

Yokoke

I've edited this to keep it from getting monsterous.

What if the Bible's Adam & Eve were much older than described?

>>> Actually, I don't think we can accurately determine exactly how long ago Adam and Eve walked this land, but why would we assume that the bible is not accurate in stating their age? Or the lineage through David and Solomon? <<<

Where is the PROOF that we can trace our lineage back to Adam & Eve? Actual data...Eljay... Couple of primary reasons we can't trace our genealogy to Adam and Eve is first, there's not a single documented line to Jesus Christ, on whose lineage reported in the Bible we depend for a link to Adam. Secondly, the Bible's genealogies aren't documented and the two given for Jesus don't even agree with each other.

>>> But what has the lineage of Jesus got to do with tracing back the ancestry to Adam and Eve? Like any of the lines that are traced back in History - the Stuarts or Tudors for example - we trace their lineage through documents of the time, and recorded witness. Documents like - say - the bible - which of course we know to be scrolls and parchments. Are not the histories of the Jewish race accurate? Why are documents of the Kings of England considered accurate - but those of the Jewish race are not? <<<

If we try to compare the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew with his genealogy in Luke, we find them identical for the 14 generations from Abraham to King David; then they fall to pieces. Matthew reports 25 generations from King David to Joseph, stepfather of Jesus of Nazareth. Luke reports 42 generations. Worse, the names that exist on both don't even match. So?????

>>> So - it would appear that one is the lineage of Mary (which would be important to Matthew) and the other is of Joseph. (who would be important to Luke, who was not writing to a Jewish audience.) If I traced your ancestry back - would they have to be the same for your mother AND your father? <<<

Science is science Eljay, it is okay to not understand it all. Do I still believe in God? I believe 100% there is one that made it all happen yes... I think the time lines are off... We humans have documented proof of our DNA having a protein linked to that of ocean water.... DNA evolves as does our understanding of it all... I think as time goes, and we are open to understanding more, the truths and light will be seen.

>>> Agreed. And we know that DNA is in it's infancy. It remains to be seen where it will all end up. Likely, we will be long gone when there is still facinating discoveries being made concerning it. <<<

Do you think God is gonna just hand it over and say you are in? No this is where we open ourselves up to understanding life and our place and where God or something more spiritual
evo(l)ves within us. That "aha" moment.... and you see the full picture.

>>> No, I don't think that at all. I actually think that God makes it anything but easy. A simple perusal of the New Testament alone is not enough to even begin to fathom what is being said. The bible is anything but a simple book. One can pick up a book on basic math and rab the concept immediately - the same could not be said for the bible. <<<

>And finally, how "reliable" is any data dating anything previous to the flood?

Yeah YOU are right, how can dispute carbon dating and argon-argon dating for example.... Silly me

<<< Not making a statement here - was asking the question.
It is known that the effects of water on any test can render the results innacurate. To "accept" carbon dating for anything that is "a billion or so" years old - must establish the premise that the flood of the days of Noah is a myth. <<<

>As to the question of God's gender, didn't Jesus call him "Father"?

Well maybe God has chosen to reveal Himself in the Bible as having a male personage.in Genesis chapter 1 we are told that man (mankind; as opposed to "a man") is created in the image of God, both male and female... And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. (Genesis 1:27) Therefore, we should not be surprised if God has both a "maleness" and "femaleness" to Him, so both men and women can relate to God, right?

>>> Actually, He created Adam from the earth, and created Eve from the rib of Adam. And if God were female - why would Jesus call him "Father" - since He is the only one who has ever seen God. As to "maleness" or "femaleness" - sure, why not. But since God is a spirit - can we even imagine what he might be? <<<

I am not saying there is a right or wrong Eljay... And just because I don't spout out scripture left and right to defend my thoughts and ideas doesn't make it wrong or right.... I like to think the Big Guy gave me a mind to use and I like to implement the talents and gifts He has given me...

<<< I tend to agree here as well, but when I see something that seems to directly contradict scripture, I bring it up, and let the reader discern for themselves. Thus my questions on the age of the human race, and God being a She. I don't bring up scripture to prove a point, but to defend one when asked, or to establish a question when I'm not convinced. <<<

I still say my prayers at night, I still wake and say prayers for the day and am grateful for what I have been given. I know my path though I still stumble and fall, I get back up and follow Him.... I just don't need the backing of church doctrines nor the Bible 100%(even though I do read it everyday, there are other books I read too because I refuse to let the gray matter go to mush) God knows what is in my heart and that my friend is all that matters....

<<< We are in full agreement here - though I tend to find the bible inspired and infalable, I don't consider my understanding of it to be. And I really do not doubt your faith, nor your relationship with God, which to me is a personal one, as it is and should be with everyone. I just tend to have questions about stated "facts" within the realm of science (carbon dating, evolution, etc) not because I think I know what's right, but because I am not a scientist. My field is the Arts - so some things puzzle me - like the world being billions of years old. <<<

why not post a paragraph or to with the web link

yokoke,

================================================================
"I am sorry Spider, but you are telling Cutelildevilsmom she HAS to use the BIBLE for the answer on if God has DNA??? "
================================================================

If someone is going to say "God created mankind from mud", that means that said person is going by the Bible's description of how mankind was created. How then can they leave the Bible to finish answering the question? You should either reject the Bible in toto or accept it in toto, if you decide to accept / reject based on your whims then you aren't being intellectually consistent. That's like saying "I'll trust the Bible, that mankind was made from mud, but God couldn't possibly be a spirit like Jesus taught". That is not a logical or consistent position.