Yokoke,

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If we try to compare the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew with his genealogy in Luke, we find them identical for the 14 generations from Abraham to King David; then they fall to pieces. Matthew reports 25 generations from King David to Joseph, stepfather of Jesus of Nazareth. Luke reports 42 generations. Worse, the names that exist on both don't even match. So?????
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You are correct, Joseph is listed as having two fathers: Heli (in Luke) and Jacob (in Matthew). The Jews kept records of marriages. We find that around the time when Jospeh and Mary were married, a marriage was recorded between a Yosef ben-Yacob and Heli bat Mary. According to the "Zelophehad tradition", a sonless father would adopt one of his son-in-laws as his son. In that way, the father-in-law's line (and name) would carry on. The "Zelophehad tradition" explains the two appearant inconsistances in the geneologies between Matthew and Luke.

I am a man who prides himself on logic and reason, it took God 33 years to bring me into the fold because of that. Trust me when I tell you, trying to find inconsistances in the Bible is not an easy task. If you are open to accepting all of the facts, it is actually impossible.

excerpt from spidy post

You should either reject the Bible in toto or accept it in toto, if you decide to accept / reject based on your whims then you aren't being intellectually consistent.

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now spidy shame 4 shame 4 shame

there are some that think that the bible is a history book

do you know who writes the history books (the winners)

using your logic here then not so long ago

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(example only i do not believe the following statement)

them wild savage indians massacred any white they wanted for no reason and deserved to be wiped of the land that belonged to the white man and broke the treaties they signed thus giving up
the land so generously given to them in said treaty

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i don't believe this to be true

but it was the teaching of the day a while back

so am i wrong in not believing it

or is it true

hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm i wonder

and by the way

what does dorathy's dog have to do with believing it or not

did it eat the real copy

in toto

adj4u,

The Bible can be used as a history book, but that isn't what Cutelildevilsmom's mom did, is it? What she did was take one example of a supernatural event in the Bible (God creating Adam from dirt), but effectively she is denying a supernatural phenomena that is described by Jesus (God is spirit). If you are going to give credence to one supernatural event in the Bible, what basis is to be used to discount another supernatural event? The only basis you could use would be personal bias, that's my point.

but you did not answer the question about toto

adj4u,

I thought you were just joking. "in toto" is a legal phrase for "accepting the whole thing".

you cant fool me mr

i know yer talking about dorathy's dog

and now yer trying to hide it

“You should either reject the Bible in toto or accept it in toto, if you decide to accept / reject based on your whims then you aren't being intellectually consistent.”

This isn’t true at all. To accept the Bible in it’s totality is to simply accept King James’ opinions (assuming that’s the version of interest).

Some people believe that parts of the Bible might have been divinely inspired, and other parts weren’t (they got included by mistake). They also may believe that other writings outside of the Bible were divinely inspirited.

In fact, it’s pretty native to believe that King James nailed it when he put the cannon together. He had his own prejudices. Some historians have suggested that King James rejected any writings that any reference to reincarnation. That may have even taken the form of simply removing any reference to reincarnation from existing stories that were included! Simply because King James didn’t believe in reincarnation.

So the King James version is obviously biased.

There are many theologians who study other materials as well. There are even writings that are referred to as “The Lost Books of the Bible”.

It’s just not as cut-and-dried as you'd like to believe. People who believe in the Bible as though it was one contiguous book simply aren’t paying attention to its history.

Abracadabra,

We have the original texts. You can access them online, you can go to best buy and buy an electronic copy or you can buy a copy at any Christian book store. You will find that KJV is a very good translation. Most of the words are translated as close as English can get in most places.

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They also may believe that other writings outside of the Bible were divinely inspirited.
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The Gnostic gospels were produced by Gnostics, a cult that existed before Jesus. The earliest Gnostic gospels have been dated to between 300 and 400 AD. All of the Bible was written within 100 years of Jesus' death. We have copies and partial copies from within decades of Jesus' death. The Gnostic gospels also contradict other scripture. The Bible is one giant tapestry, if it were to contradict itself, then it would fall apart completely. Adding the Gnostic gospels would be adding non-Jewish cultic beliefs into an existing relgion that is firmly founded in the Jewish tradition. We have only a few copies of the Gnostic gospels, but there are thousands of copies of the books of the Bible. We know from comparing one copy of a book against the others that they were all remarkably similar, with only a few differences. We have more copies of the books of the Bible than we have of any other book from antiquity. That's why most Christians reject those gospels.

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=4010

Eljay

For example,

Rock strata can be dated based on the rate of radioactive decay (radiometric clocks); thus the age of fossils found in sedimentary rocks can be determined.

Fossils of simpler organisms are found in order rocks, newer strata contain more complex organisms.

And, do you know what pharyngeal slits are?
They exist in vertebrate animals, too.
If you touch between your cheek and ear, you might notice a hole. Sea lamprey, chicken, human being all have slits. They don't function, of course, but that's also the evidence that we evolved from a common ancestor.

And
Do you know guppies?
Do you know how male guppies look like?
They have colorful big tales.
One experimental evidence from this fish can demonstrate natural selection is at work.
Same number of male and female baby guppies are put together in 2 tanks. And in one tank, predator is put. Male in the tank with no predator grew up and they developed their tales big and colorful in order to attract female guppies.
In another tank, male guppies grew up but they have small not not colored tales in order not to attract the predator and be eaten.

Sorry about my poor english ^-^

LOL >i am beginning to think yokokeread some of my posts about evolution

I have... I do... and at "all" posts I may either but read nonetheless...

>I've edited this to keep it from getting monsterous.
Why edit now Eljay?? LOL JSH has the bandwidth and I know how to click to the next page LOL

>would we assume that the bible is not accurate in stating their age

Eljay.... why would we assume the BIBLE is it?? The history book to end all history books...? I was always told the BIBLE is a love letter from God.

Maybe you can tell me why no history books from other countries dated with history have no accounts of Jesus? You seem to have all the other answers and if you don't Spider has some tucked away HEEHEEHEE....

We are debating this why again???

>Likely, we will be long gone when there is still facinating discoveries being made concerning it (e.g. DNA)

Who says, they lived hundreds of years in the BIBLE, stem cell research, transplants, cold freeze to be revived in 2200 when medical advances are more caught up with our counterparts.... LOL

>I just tend to have questions about stated "facts" within the realm of science (carbon dating, evolution, etc) not because I think I know what's right, but because I am not a scientist. My field is the Arts - so some things puzzle me - like the world being billions of years old.

Well I am a scientist. I stayed in a Holiday Inn Epress ROFL
Sorry you guys leave yourselves to open to puns and don't laugh when you should... My field is jack of all trades and master of none... I know my genetics but not by choice, I am an advocate for my child who has blown her geneticist away literally by what she has accomplished. Accomplished by "altenative" therapies which are really "new age" concepts but frick they work so frack why not?

>Spider says: That is not a logical or consistent position.

BS. How many pastors on tv or in your church say, "God has spoken to me and said..."??? Um like 100%. So because we say "God says" we have to use the BIBLE.... I spray you with silly string Spider because.... do I need a reason?? No. I don't. Don't have a rule book that says "yokoke says...." just going off what Yokoke says to me... and she says spray your arse with silly string LOL

(((spraying))) ((reshake can and squirt)) ((hhmmm me thinks Spider not happy with this reponse)) ROFL


>I am a man who prides himself on logic and reason, it took God 33 years to bring me into the fold because of that. Trust me when I tell you, trying to find inconsistances in the Bible is not an easy task. If you are open to accepting all of the facts, it is actually impossible.

Spider it was not God that brought you to him.... it was your choice... to open your eyes and accept what is there...

((resprays you with silly string)) LOL


>There are many theologians who study other materials as well. There are even writings that are referred to as “The Lost Books of the Bible”. It’s just not as cut-and-dried as you'd like to believe. People who believe in the Bible as though it was one contiguous book simply aren’t paying attention to its history.

Thank You Abra.... to think the BIBLE is it amazes me. Our pastor uses not only the BIBLE but other good books, he even did Suzi Ormans book on being money savvy... very good information for having money sense....

Manami...interesting post.... gill slits.... you are the first person to ever mention them on any posts...thank you.... the idea that human fetuses have gill slits is known as the Biogenetic Law.

"The idea that the embryo of a complex animal goes through stages resembling the embryos of its ancestors is called the Biogenetic Law." (4) This "Law", also known as recapitulation theory, (i.e., "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny") was formulated in 1866 by Dr. Ernst Haeckel, an early scientific convert to Darwinism." ( http://www.rae.org/ - the revoltion against evolution)

Getting preggers in itself is a flipping miracle... and while the fetus whose DNA comes from the Mum and Dad whose DNA is passed down from previous generations... all life is miraculous and should be celebrated as such..... no matter than DNA orgins....

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"The idea that the embryo of a complex animal goes through stages resembling the embryos of its ancestors is called the Biogenetic Law." (4) This "Law", also known as recapitulation theory, (i.e., "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny") was formulated in 1866 by Dr. Ernst Haeckel, an early scientific convert to Darwinism." ( http://www.rae.org/ - the revoltion against evolution)
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Haeckel's work has been discredited many times. His wood carvings were fake. We know today that his work was a case of a serious scientific hoax.

You are correct Spider on Haeckel ((spraying you with silly string)) but doesn't deter fromthe theory itself which was devised by by the 19th-century Estonian zoologist K. E. von Baer, who observed that embryos resemble the embryos, but not the adults, of other species.

Cripes even with 3 glasses of wine under my belt you still banter and argue and look on google and yahoo....????????.... why Spider??? Why?????????????

LOL

yokoke,

Maybe if you laid off the wine, you would realize I was quoting you. You quoted Haeckel as support for evolution. While I don't know anything about Baer, I can tell you without a doubt that the belief that all embryos go through the same stages is completely false. It was never valid, never true and there has never been any factual support for it.

Yeah! YOU let me worry about the vino okay?? lmao

And i realize you were quoting me ((huge squirt of silly string))((gosh!!))((golly gee willykers lol))

Haeckel played off off Baer's intial theory and yeah it has been shown to be flawed in Haeckel's instance... Hebert Spencer tried too... ever seen a picture of an embryo Spider? Cross between mutant frog and a beautiful expose' of his design...and the love between two people and the gift given by our Lord...

why reply Spider???? No BIBLE quote for recapitulation theory?
Dang, I have the BIBLE within my reach, but as I said before Spider, it is not the only vessel, not the only book to know what is true within your heart.... and the only thing that matter is what is in your heart Spider between you and God.

God made me very inquisitive and believe it or not this post was a serious question.We must have something of Gods.Is it our conciousness that our time on earth is limited ? And why don't we live 300 yrs like Noah?I mean though all are unique in how they view the world,there must be a common thread that binds us together...

cutelildevilsmom,

We all have the desire to be immortal, that's our spirit speaking to our souls. We were made for eternity, it is the inheritance which we have been promised and it is the goal of our spirit to guide us to eternity with God. There are many paths that seem right, but if you listen to your spirit and ignore your body and soul, you will find the right one.

thanx spider..:)