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| Topic: Brave Student Prays in Graduation Speech | |
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when would a prayer turn into 'proseletyzing',,,?
You can not possibly understand that to an atheist a prayer to God is proselytizing the existence of God? Or a prayer in "Jesus name" is proselytizing Christianity? Use your imagination. and to a religious person getting up to speak about gay rights is rude,,,but thats part of the freedom of expression we should not be excluding the religious from,, or to a christian who doesnt do idols, getting up to say an allegiance to a flag may be rude,,,, but noone is FORCED to participate just because they choose to remain there,, so all of these scenarios should fall under free expression that people need to 'deal with' |
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I normally keep my nose out of the political threads...... But my question is this. As a legal resident of The United States of America, do I have the right to practice my religion in public if I so choose? Yes you do,unless your religion insists on proselytizing to a captive public audience when it is clearly against the rules and politically incorrect and considered rude. when would a prayer turn into 'proseletyzing',,,? When you're praying/preaching to people in public who do not share your beliefs? |
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? |
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I normally keep my nose out of the political threads...... But my question is this. As a legal resident of The United States of America, do I have the right to practice my religion in public if I so choose? Yes you do,unless your religion insists on proselytizing to a captive public audience when it is clearly against the rules and politically incorrect and considered rude. when would a prayer turn into 'proseletyzing',,,? When you're praying/preaching to people in public who do not share your beliefs? Guess they should deal with it the way I Deal with it everytime someone is pushing gay rights agenda in public |
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I normally keep my nose out of the political threads...... But my question is this. As a legal resident of The United States of America, do I have the right to practice my religion in public if I so choose? Yes you do,unless your religion insists on proselytizing to a captive public audience when it is clearly against the rules and politically incorrect and considered rude. when would a prayer turn into 'proseletyzing',,,? When you're praying/preaching to people in public who do not share your beliefs? Guess they should deal with it the way I Deal with it everytime someone is pushing gay rights agenda in public |
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? No Kleisto, I want to carry and birth and provide and care for children whose life is dictated by SOMEONE ELSES agenda, morals, and values 
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? all the information that implies 'there is not one damn thing wrong',,, of course,, right? yeah, thats hard for me becuase its a big pc lie,,,, |
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All I am gonna say is this, I best not hear about anyone complaining if a Muslim prays publicly to Allah, or when any other religion or type of spirituality, has a public prayer for that matter, or even when an atheist chooses to make public his or her non belief. Because if you have the right to put yours out like this, so too do they, to say otherwise is hypocritical. So yeah, you want your right to be seen/heard? Fine. But don't complain when someone else wants to do the same, because they deserve the same right then. 
Yep. I would like to see someone get up and recite a prayer to Satan and see who gets excited. Indeed.....can guarantee most who support this kid, would be angry at whoever did that. They're all for freedom of religious expression.....as long as it's theirs that is being expressed. They could care less about it otherwise, only when it suits them. Satan carries a different connotation than any God,, that person would probably be booed off the stage as I Cant imagine a prayer to Satan would have anything to do with forgiveness or AVOIDING evil in a culture where 'evil' is pretty universally a bad thing, I Think the comparison is lacking although, it is still about choice its kind of like comparing consentual incest or consentual sex between a teen and an adult, with homosexuality some will insist its not the same thing, although sex is sex and consent is consent likewise prayer is prayer,, although the details can sometimes make quite a bit of difference in perception,, People who worship Satan or the Devil do not consider him to be 'evil.'To them, he is the liberator of the Human race and the light bearer. He brought the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve did he not? God wanted them to remain as innocent and ignorant as animals, procreating just like animals with no knowledge of good and evil. Satan only carries a different connotation to Christians because they are told that he is the ultimate evil and they believe it. And Msharmony, please stop bringing up issues of sex, incest and homosexuality. Are you obsessed with that? This is about sponsoring a particular religious belief in public when it is clearly against the rules to do so. Forget Satan if it bothers you so much. How would you like it if someone got up and did a little preaching about atheism and how there is no such thing as God? Its just rude to push your personal beliefs on a captive crowd at a public setting. Why can't people get this fact into their heads? I Cannot stop bring up homosexuality,, it is an analogy people in this forum who arent particularly religious seem to be extremely fond/protective of homosexuals and homosexuality its a way to get those people to relate to how the RELIGIOUS feel they are treated,,, oh boo hoo, religions have been brainwashing people on how to think or act for YEARS, sorry if I don't exactly feel sorry when it blows back in their faces. You can only keep a people down for so long before they snap, and that's what is happening now. So yeah.......I really don't have much sympathy there, it is a natural reaction to being controlled. If you don't like it, don't try to control in the first place. |
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? all the information that implies 'there is not one damn thing wrong',,, of course,, right? yeah, thats hard for me becuase its a big pc lie,,,, so says your religion......but you can't base fact on it sorry to tell you. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sun 06/09/13 07:31 PM
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All I am gonna say is this, I best not hear about anyone complaining if a Muslim prays publicly to Allah, or when any other religion or type of spirituality, has a public prayer for that matter, or even when an atheist chooses to make public his or her non belief. Because if you have the right to put yours out like this, so too do they, to say otherwise is hypocritical. So yeah, you want your right to be seen/heard? Fine. But don't complain when someone else wants to do the same, because they deserve the same right then.
Yep. I would like to see someone get up and recite a prayer to Satan and see who gets excited. Indeed.....can guarantee most who support this kid, would be angry at whoever did that. They're all for freedom of religious expression.....as long as it's theirs that is being expressed. They could care less about it otherwise, only when it suits them. Satan carries a different connotation than any God,, that person would probably be booed off the stage as I Cant imagine a prayer to Satan would have anything to do with forgiveness or AVOIDING evil in a culture where 'evil' is pretty universally a bad thing, I Think the comparison is lacking although, it is still about choice its kind of like comparing consentual incest or consentual sex between a teen and an adult, with homosexuality some will insist its not the same thing, although sex is sex and consent is consent likewise prayer is prayer,, although the details can sometimes make quite a bit of difference in perception,, People who worship Satan or the Devil do not consider him to be 'evil.'To them, he is the liberator of the Human race and the light bearer. He brought the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve did he not? God wanted them to remain as innocent and ignorant as animals, procreating just like animals with no knowledge of good and evil. Satan only carries a different connotation to Christians because they are told that he is the ultimate evil and they believe it. And Msharmony, please stop bringing up issues of sex, incest and homosexuality. Are you obsessed with that? This is about sponsoring a particular religious belief in public when it is clearly against the rules to do so. Forget Satan if it bothers you so much. How would you like it if someone got up and did a little preaching about atheism and how there is no such thing as God? Its just rude to push your personal beliefs on a captive crowd at a public setting. Why can't people get this fact into their heads? I Cannot stop bring up homosexuality,, it is an analogy people in this forum who arent particularly religious seem to be extremely fond/protective of homosexuals and homosexuality its a way to get those people to relate to how the RELIGIOUS feel they are treated,,, oh boo hoo, religions have been brainwashing people on how to think or act for YEARS, sorry if I don't exactly feel sorry when it blows back in their faces. You can only keep a people down for so long before they snap, and that's what is happening now. So yeah.......I really don't have much sympathy there, it is a natural reaction to being controlled. If you don't like it, don't try to control in the first place. how are they 'kept' down,, please give me an example anything where they are financially, educationally, or socially held back as a group ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER would be nice,,,, truth is, people have always expected certain behaviors from others on an indivdiual basis, ,thats life when I get a job, I dont wear my religion, I dont even speak of my religion at work, its not something they know unless I WANT THEM TO KNOW,, (unlike my race or my gender) When I go to school, same thing,,,.... so as a religious person, why is it fair to judge how I feel and what Im inspired by when I speak before allowing me the same right to speak on it as you do a homsexual person? |
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straight sex cant be 'forced' on anyone, noone is here without it,, it has to have happened for them to be able to exist to complain about it,, so I personally dont see the relevance of the comparison,,,
but back on point,,,everyone, including you, should take your advice which is the point of the thread,,,and why people are applauding the young man for saying his prayer,,, I would not support forcing teachers to lead prayers in school, and I dont support forcing schools to teach a 'gay 'curriculum I totally support (in the name of free expression), INDIVIDUALS including in their personal speeches THEIR beliefs or aknowledging THEIR intimate relationships (lover, partner, spouse,,etc) its not an issue for me about believing everyone has to think like me, its just crossing a line between what we allow INDIVIDUALS to express for themself and what we mandate our childen be taught in schools media is a profit driven industry, I have long understood that, and whatever things become the popular and fashionble trend will become pushed and become more popular in society than they were before they were media fashions,,,, Straight people absolutely flaunt their sexuality all the time. Especially now, when the anti-gay crowd speaks out against being gay. By doing that, they're flaunting their own sexuality. |
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when would a prayer turn into 'proseletyzing',,,?
You can not possibly understand that to an atheist a prayer to God is proselytizing the existence of God? Or a prayer in "Jesus name" is proselytizing Christianity? Use your imagination. and to a religious person getting up to speak about gay rights is rude,,,but thats part of the freedom of expression we should not be excluding the religious from,, Gay people exist. We have proof of that. Its a fact. Why shouldn't they have equal rights? If they are such an abomination to Christians then Christians should ask God why he created them. or to a christian who doesnt do idols, getting up to say an allegiance to a flag may be rude,,,, but noone is FORCED to participate just because they choose to remain there,, so all of these scenarios should fall under free expression that people need to 'deal with' Yes they are FORCED TO LISTEN TO IT because they are there to see a graduation or something else and they don't want to have to get up and leave because of someone else BREAKING THE RULES! Their ears are basically assaulted and raped with propaganda contrary to their intelligence and beliefs. |
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? No Kleisto, I want to carry and birth and provide and care for children whose life is dictated by SOMEONE ELSES agenda, morals, and values
You don't get it, you really don't, their lives should NOT be all about you, let them make of their lives what they choose, this is why a lot of parents lose the respect of their kids because they try and make them what THEY want them to be instead of what the child desires, instead of listening to the child and what it needs. We should not be preaching ultimatums to our kids. Try and keep them from making bad choices? Yes, but not just saying: "this is how it is, like it or not", that's a surefire way to lose the kids and asks for rebellion. Listen to your child, don't just try and control them, you'll get more respect and might even find they'll have a better life for it. |
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I normally keep my nose out of the political threads...... But my question is this. As a legal resident of The United States of America, do I have the right to practice my religion in public if I so choose? Yes you do,unless your religion insists on proselytizing to a captive public audience when it is clearly against the rules and politically incorrect and considered rude. when would a prayer turn into 'proseletyzing',,,? When you're praying/preaching to people in public who do not share your beliefs? Guess they should deal with it the way I Deal with it everytime someone is pushing gay rights agenda in public Where I used to live, Mormons would often try to stop people to preach about their beliefs. I'd try very hard to be polite, but that didn't always work. Some very religious people are incredibly stubborn and don't care that people don't want them preaching to us. |
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when would a prayer turn into 'proseletyzing',,,?
You can not possibly understand that to an atheist a prayer to God is proselytizing the existence of God? Or a prayer in "Jesus name" is proselytizing Christianity? Use your imagination. and to a religious person getting up to speak about gay rights is rude,,,but thats part of the freedom of expression we should not be excluding the religious from,, Gay people exist. We have proof of that. Its a fact. Why shouldn't they have equal rights? If they are such an abomination to Christians then Christians should ask God why he created them. or to a christian who doesnt do idols, getting up to say an allegiance to a flag may be rude,,,, but noone is FORCED to participate just because they choose to remain there,, so all of these scenarios should fall under free expression that people need to 'deal with' Yes they are FORCED TO LISTEN TO IT because they are there to see a graduation or something else and they don't want to have to get up and leave because of someone else BREAKING THE RULES! Their ears are basically assaulted and raped with propaganda contrary to their intelligence and beliefs. well then they are 'selfish' because they should expect a valedictorian at such an event who expresses THEIR Personal view of their future,, thats what happens,,, if they dont want to hear about religion, maybe they should make sure their kid gets to be the valedictorian so that religion isnt mentioned,, |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 06/09/13 07:36 PM
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oh boo hoo, religions have been brainwashing people on how to think or act for YEARS, sorry if I don't exactly feel sorry when it blows back in their faces. You can only keep a people down for so long before they snap, and that's what is happening now. So yeah.......I really don't have much sympathy there, it is a natural reaction to being controlled. If you don't like it, don't try to control in the first place. how are they 'kept' down,, please give me an example anything where they are financially, educationally, or socially held back as a group ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER would be nice,,,, The fact they have had to hide who they are ring a bell to you?? The fact that they have had to constantly hear that something is wrong with them, that they are perverts, sinners destined for hell? You don't think that messes with someones' mind? Don't be naive, religion has long since held a say in how people conduct themselves, even down to what jobs they can or can't hold (think sex workers), or when they can or cannot buy something. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. |
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well then they are 'selfish' because they should expect a valedictorian at such an event who expresses THEIR Personal view of their future,,
thats what happens,,, if they dont want to hear about religion, maybe they should make sure their kid gets to be the valedictorian so that religion isnt mentioned,, So, if it were an atheist who was valedictorian and they went on about how god wasn't real, you'd be fine with that? |
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when would a prayer turn into 'proseletyzing',,,?
You can not possibly understand that to an atheist a prayer to God is proselytizing the existence of God? Or a prayer in "Jesus name" is proselytizing Christianity? Use your imagination. and to a religious person getting up to speak about gay rights is rude,,,but thats part of the freedom of expression we should not be excluding the religious from,, Gay people exist. We have proof of that. Its a fact. Why shouldn't they have equal rights? If they are such an abomination to Christians then Christians should ask God why he created them. or to a christian who doesnt do idols, getting up to say an allegiance to a flag may be rude,,,, but noone is FORCED to participate just because they choose to remain there,, so all of these scenarios should fall under free expression that people need to 'deal with' Yes they are FORCED TO LISTEN TO IT because they are there to see a graduation or something else and they don't want to have to get up and leave because of someone else BREAKING THE RULES! Their ears are basically assaulted and raped with propaganda contrary to their intelligence and beliefs. well then they are 'selfish' because they should expect a valedictorian at such an event who expresses THEIR Personal view of their future,, thats what happens,,, if they dont want to hear about religion, maybe they should make sure their kid gets to be the valedictorian so that religion isnt mentioned,, No, what they did was make a rule. Which the inconsiderate disobedient valedictorian broke. Shame on him. He is rude and disobedient. He should not be applauded for breaking the rules. |
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Gay people exist. We have proof of that. Its a fact. Why shouldn't they have equal rights? If they are such an abomination to Christians then Christians should ask God why he created them.
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WRONG< there is a difference between teaching about homosexuality,, and teaching homosexuality is normal thats the difference I am talking about,,, homosexuality has no reason to be taught to my children, the schools can cover ANAL SEX, or CUNNILINGUS strictly from the anatomical perspective,, there is no reason to go promoting sexual 'preferences' IF hte interest were really in teaching about homosexuality, why wouldnt that include all the EXPONENTIAL Risks that the behavior is associated with? the interest is in teaching the EMBRACING of homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality,,, which is BS I dont want taught to my child from people she is being taught to respect as educators,,,, All I am reading here is you want YOUR agenda, YOUR morals, YOUR beliefs fostered onto the kids. You don't care about them being able to think for themselves, you'd rather do it for them. You cannot separate what you are suggesting from the idea that you want to teach them to judge homosexuals/lesbians as less than acceptable people based solely on whom they choose to share their lives with. You just cannot do it, it goes together. The fact is, kids are GOING to be exposed to these differences as they grow up, and it's something they need to know about and understand so they can handle it. Yes risks should be taught just as much as risks should be taught for straight sex, but to outright instill them that these people are different or less worthy of respect in any way is crossing the line. They may not be able to have kids like straight people can, but there is not one damn thing wrong with being with one another, I don't care what the Bible says about it, it is not relevant for discussion as it pertains to human rights and individuality. It needs to be kept out of discussions like this. Give the child all the information totally unbiased and let them decide from there, is that that hard?? all the information that implies 'there is not one damn thing wrong',,, of course,, right? yeah, thats hard for me becuase its a big pc lie,,,, so says your religion......but you can't base fact on it sorry to tell you. my religion didnt create the disproportionate risk factos check with the CDC {url] http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/ [/url} Hate to bust the fantasy 'all sex is the same if its consentual' bubble, ,,,,,, |
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